Design: Storyline

[altugi]

Reeden,

I was so intrigued by the autopsy idea, that I simply could not think of expanding it to also cover injured units :-)

[altugi]

Here's a description for the UFOpaedia entry. I suggest it be included in the design docs.

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The Gloves Are Off

In the weeks that have passed, the aliens have attacked several of our population centers. Representatives of the major political blocks have growing increasingly vehement in their requests that something be done. Today, in a special UN Security Council meeting, it was unanimously decided that the aliens are not subject to our laws and conventions - including the Geneva Conventions. To put it another way, the aliens don't have human rights, as they're not human. Commander, you are now authorized to perform research on alien corpses in any way you deem necessary. You are also authorized to take alien prisoners, interrogate them, and even perform experiments on them. The gloves are off, Commander. Our future depends on you.

researchtime 120 days
requires <x number of terror attacks>

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I'd like to add a twist to this. Until the Council makes this decision, you could have a interrogation station in orbit, like the interrogation airplanes the CIA has nowadays (it appears, that Arabs are also not considered as humans in these days). The backside of it would be that it is quite expensive to run such a station. So having the "gloves off" would be a release in terms of available financial sources.

[BTAxis]

Anything in orbit would be shot down by the UFOs in no-time. That would never work. Besides, the research topic is meant to unlock a research tree, not to make it cheaper to research.

[Malick]

I like the idea of "taking gloves off". It seems credible that after a certain amount of terrors and alien's actions, the governments of the world finaly give Phalanx full power to deal with the enemy. Now, war is total and all actions will be taken to prevail. This may in fact allow the player to research some techs, like:

Live aliens experiments : better knowledge of the alien organism and may allow to find new ways of killing them (see below).

Biological warfare : a gas is developed to be specifically efficient against aliens, can be used in grenades or modified flame thrower.

Active interrogation methods : better knowledge of their way of life (who cares ?  :twisted: ), better knowledge of their general intentions and plans.

Could be many more. This could be a major step in the story and the tech tree. Thinking of this, could there be a counter part, like, let's say a notable drop in recruits morale or something like this ? Or aliens become harder to capture alive, now that they are aware that they'll be tortured...

Malick

[altugi]

BTaxis,

I accept it was a bad suggestion with the station in orbit. :oops:


I see that you regard suggestions about tactical combat as rather unneccesary in the current stage of development. But just to clear the issue, I never meant to "hold up" something and I am sorry if my suggestions sound like they take the project back.

Of course, tactical missions in the game are already good. I play them, and I like them. But the rest of the beta is quite empty, so I understand that geoscape, tech-tree and story have to proceed to fill these blanks.

If you think it is a better idea, I can stop talking about combat, until other game elements in the game reach the completion level of the tactical missions. Do you think that would be less distracting?

[BTAxis]

It would happen fairly early in the sotryline, though. So it wouldn't have too many different effects. We don't want the story to progress all in one go, do we?

As for the aliens becoming harder to capture, that will happen anyway as more powerful enemies show up. I see no need to make them harder to capture after this research, especially since you CAN'T really capture them prior to researching it (Alien Containment is part of the live alien research tree).

[altugi]

aliens become harder to capture alive, now that they are aware that they'll be tortured...

Malick

Maybe committing suicide when it seems hopeless to escape?

[BTAxis]

Altugi, I didn't mean to say you should stop making suggestions about the tactical combat. You just shouldn't do it in this thread.

Aliens committing suicide? I think that's both unrealistic and annoying to the player. Besides, there might be situations where the AI considers the situation "hopeless" while it isn't. Then we'd end up with UFO: Lemmings Invasion.

Capturing some of the mechanical aliens alive is quite a task. Stun gas is ineffective, so you need EMP weapons or other tricks. It's probably hard enough already, but since there's no support for capturing aliens yet, it's too early to tell.

[altugi]

Altugi, I didn't mean to say you should stop making suggestions about the tactical combat. You just shouldn't do it in this thread.

Believe me, I am relieved to hear this, since I had this feeling of guilt that it seems to you like I am talking too easy on things that others had to code for months to bring it onto this level. Ok, I'll be more careful to post in the appropriate forums.

Aliens committing suicide? I think that's both unrealistic and annoying to the player. Besides, there might be situations where the AI considers the situation "hopeless" while it isn't. Then we'd end up with UFO: Lemmings Invasion.

Hahaha... Lemmings Invasion! Cool  :lol:

However, it might be not that annoying. If you know that you have to capture them alive, but might kill themselves as a final solution, it could be an interesting challenge. It would establish stronger ties between combat skills and the research feature.

It would also not that unrealistic. Since prefering death over death through torture seems to be understandable.

What I definately agree with is that the AI should be capable of making the appropriate decision. Or it will be a farce.

[altugi]

Anything in orbit would be shot down by the UFOs in no-time. That would never work. Besides, the research topic is meant to unlock a research tree, not to make it cheaper to research.

Of course a orbit station would be not much convincing. What I meant to suggest was to have something that allows you to go around the Geneva Convention until aliens are announced not being subject to it. That would enhance the feeling that this Geneva thing is actually a storyline, not just a one-time event. If we accept that it would be more interesting as a storyline, then going around the Geneva Convention before we are allowed to do it, shoud have its price. You would have to run a secret place that causes additional costs and demands longer research time.

It hasn't to be a "real" place at all. Could be just a name and a figure in the finanical sheet activated by a tick on a box. The tick would just cause alien life cycle topics to appear in the researchable items list. You could cancel it at any time if you run low on money. But when you achieve the "gloves off" cornerstone, then the option simply dissapears. No additional running costs any more.

[BTAxis]

What would be the point, though? As I said, this event should happen fairly early on in the game. It seems a waste of resources to set up a special facility when it becomes "legal" at the start of the storyline anyway.

[Malick]

In combat situations, many aliens will be captured alive. The Geneva Conventions stipulate that all POW be treated fairly and given food and medication. Does this mean that prior to the "take the gloves off" event, these prisoners serve no purpose to Phalanx ? Or is Phalanx combat unit given the ability to capture live aliens only after the event ?

I'd rather say that the "Total War" doctrine gives little chance to take prisoners, in my opinion. So in the first stage of the "war", there would be a lot of prisoners, mainly foot soldiers. They will be well treated, but would give little to no intel as they wouldn't be fully interrogated. On the other hand, the latter stage of the war would allow a fewer number of prisoners, some units precisely targeted as being of some value by intelligence sevice, which would then be squeazed until they reveal whatever they know.

Malick

[altugi]

What would be the point, though? As I said, this event should happen fairly early on in the game. It seems a waste of resources to set up a special facility when it becomes "legal" at the start of the storyline anyway.

The point is that it would not sound as some excuse for allowing us to research aliens, but that it would feel like an improvement in a certain matter, thus making up a coherent storyline. It will not "become" legal at start, you will "make" it legal through certain efforts.

[BTAxis]

In combat situations, many aliens will be captured alive.

This is one hundred per cent wrong.

Aliens don't get captured - they fight to the death. It is only through special efforts at capturing them that the human forces get to study a live one. Of course, before the "gloves off" event, aliens can be captured alive, but scientists can't perform adequate research on them because of their POW rights. In terms of game effects, this means the alien research tree is not available prior to the event.

The point is that it would not sound as some excuse for allowing us to research aliens, but that it would feel like an improvement in a certain matter, thus making up a coherent storyline. It will not "become" legal at start, you will "make" it legal through certain efforts.

I don't understand what's incoherent about not being able to research live aliens until a certain event. An improvement in a certain matter through certain efforts, as you put it, is not equal to a more "coherent storyline". Sometimes, events just happen even if you don't act yourself.

I digress, though. Let's get back to your original idea, of a separate facility to study aliens in secret. This would then be a separate base with only an alien containment? People would want to base a squad of soldiers there too, since they have the base anyway. And if you have a fully functional base, well, then what's the difference with having the alien research tree right from the start? Maybe because it's a bit more expensive? That's too insignificant to be part of any sort of plot. Especially since, as I said, you will be doing it "legally" very soon after the start of the game anyway.

[Malick]

(...) Of course, before the "gloves off" event, aliens can be captured alive, but scientists can't perform adequate research on them because of their POW rights. In terms of game effects, this means the alien research tree is not available prior to the event.

OK, that's what I wanted to know. Aliens can be captured, though unlikely, but they won't really be of use because of their "rights" as POW until this event. What I wouldn't like is being told that the war gets on another level, and that now I am allowed to take prisoners... It would seem to work the other way around.

Malick