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Author Topic: Design: Storyline  (Read 88036 times)

altugi

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2006, 08:12:14 pm »
btw, how do you upload images to the forum?? I can't do that directly from my machine? I have to give a URL? [/img]

Offline BTAxis

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2006, 11:35:28 pm »
Yeah. I uploaded that image to the web space I have at my college, and did a [img]. The only exception are avatars, you can upload them to the PHPBB.

Brasileiro

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2006, 10:27:21 pm »
Wouldn't it be better to split north and south america into two groups?

Reenen

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2006, 02:34:23 pm »
I read through the "official" story, and I read through some of altugi's suggestions.  Even though some of them are a bit too extreme, in general I think his suggestions are good.

My problem is, PHALANX (x-com whatever) shouldn't "start" after the first serious attack, but rather before it.

IMO Mumbai could've captured a live alien (someone like Will Smith may have captured it) who was "scouting" before the Terror mission.  Suddenly the whole world is panicking, and a new task force is created (or just revived - which would plug the gap of the base already being built half-way).  They are so little because the response time is so small.  (Best-of-the-best-of-the-best!)

However new recruits (those you can buy) should become somewhat better/elite as time goes by.

This could give you the +- month that you had in UFO 1 to do some research etc. before your first "terror" mission.

Offline BTAxis

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« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2006, 05:05:28 pm »
Well, you didn't have that much time in UFO 1, especially on higher difficulty settings. Also, someone actually capturing an alien before the attack would not make any sense. The aliens operate from UFOs, so they wouldn't be able to infoltrate a big city unnoticed. Capturing an alien alive is hard even for "X-COM" troops, so it makes very little sense that a civilian would do it.

You can do it another way, though. "X-COM" might have been a secret contingency plan set up by the UN after astronomers picked up strange signals from space (this being the alien armada approaching Earth). The project would be in a stage of preparation, to be deployed swiftly should the worst-case-scenario come to pass. Which it does. As for the base being halfway done when you first build it, there is no excuse that can make it any less absurd, since you get to decide where to build it. The workers must have been able to know what you were going to choose weeks in advance in any case. Best not to try and rationalize it. It's a game, live with it.

altugi

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2006, 10:54:25 pm »
As far as I remember, in X-Com: Terror from the Deep, X-Com Apocalypse and also in UFO: Aftermath you are just put into a de facto situation. You have a base and a squad and some vehicles, and then there is just the prompt to equipp your squad and go to a mission since somewhere some aliens have been spotted. You are simply thrown in the situation. The games do not really explain much on how things came to this point. They went to the core of the game, the tactical mission.

Now in my opinion, in the TBS genre, as a designer, the thing that you have to care about most, is the tactical mission itself. Even without a tech-tree and a story, a tactical combats basic features should offer a great variety of actions and challenges.

Imagine you have only the tactical mission feature, no tech-tree, no story. What could you come up with in order to make combat interesting and challenging, give it twist and variety, enrich it with surprises and shocks?

You would come up with maybe hundreds of ideas. You could implement them all into one single mission without referring to any story or tech-tree.

But what if you were allowed to introduce these features gradually? You would want to introduce this features to create a feeling of increasing difficulty. In other words you would strive to create the illusion of progress.

At first you would decide on which features to keep as basic combat elements and which ones to be introduced later.  You would try to figure out how and when to employ or reveal the remaining features and how this to do this in a merely dote-antidote fashion which creates the feeling that we climb onto new levels in the game. This activitiy is actually what creating a tech-tree is about. Posing new threats, presenting solutions, posing new threats, presenting solutions and so on... As you see, the tech-tree itself, already imposes sort of a story.

Embed this tech-story in a broader sci-fi narrative with a surprising final. And you have even a better game.


So we have three layers then, not more actually. Tactical Mission, Tech-Tree and Story. I strongly believe  that the tactical mission is the basic layer, the fundament. Theoretically it contains all basic gameplay elements. But if we wish we can present these elements along a row of discoveries guided by a tech-tree.  You could design the tech-trees quite differently and that would mean you can create different stories with the same tactical combat elements. It just depends on how and when you want to introduce them. You could  merge certain research topics to shorten the game or split them to produce longer playing hours. As it turns out, tech-tree and story are rather form than content here.


I'd like to refer back to X-Com Apocalypse. X-Com had a tech-tree, which meant the designers preferred to not reveal everything at one time. They chopped down the bulk of features into smaller pieces which then would be gradually revealed. Nice effort to turn a bunch of features into a progressing sci-fi adventure. BUT on the other hand, the initial combat features were actually more than sufficient for satisfactory gameplay.

Remember the core tactical missions in X-Com Apocalypse... I mean the first few ones you were going through, at the very beginning of the game, when nothing yet had been researched and nothing had been yet really told about what was behind the story. The basic  tactical mission was already rich and posed many challenges to the player. I wonder how much (in percentage) the initially presented gameplay features in tactical combat make up of the total number of tactical combat gameplay features. I think within the first "week" in the game, at least one third of them, maybe even more, were actually enabled for player use.

I argue that the basic tactical mission could have been a stand-alone one and would have been quite entertaining without any tech-tree and story.

But what made these missions already so good? For example the basic spectrum of unique and challenging aliens types we encountered: I mean especially those without guns and grenades (remember the Hyperworm for instance). They couldn't shoot, instead they had surpising features. And all of  these features were functional. They were meant to exploit certain attributes of our units, their mental or physical powers, their gear, their weapons and accessories. And they were meant to thoroughly put to test the ways in which we tried to overcome AI or how we'd strived to manage the units within the constraints of game physics and environment. Last but not least they were based on simple techniques and tricks to surprise the player and make him doubt his chances to succeed.

For example some aliens had metamorphosis features as the surprise element: The Hyperworm "giving birth" to smaller worms. The brainsucker pod, rather perceived as a grenade, turned into a brainsucker. But the chain could go quite far: We were even more surprised to see a brain sucked out and our unit starting to shoot at its own squad members.Then we had an alien that was itself designed as a weapon. This skyblue alien, a walking bomb, running at us at high speed. A good example for creating shock at the first encounter. Once we understood what it could do to us, the shock turned into suspense to last throughout all missions of the game.

See how much gameplay and variety is already there... And I haven't yet mentioned the armed aliens, for example the andropod. Add now the features of the humans: What they could do, what could happen to them etc... add also the terrain and building features.

Quite a lot, uh?


What I want to say is, even without tech-tree and story, the basic tactical mission was already a high quality combat game.


Now, what I want to ask is: Do we have really investigated all our options iregarding core gameplay. Are we rushing into the tech-tree and story layers too fast? I think that the belief that we must have a tech-tree and a story to make the game better, causes us to consider the question of better gameplay as already cleared. But I think if we want to bring more interesting things into the game we should be able to focus on the nature of our engine, game physics etc in order to develope interesting gameplay features, without potential ideas being mutilated by tech-tree or story. Our task as designers should be to use tech-tree and story as supporting layers of satisfactory tactical combat gameplay. Not the reverse. I fear we could miss chances to develope better gameplay features because we think tech-tree and story will do this for us.

Let me put the question in another way: "What is the most surprising, challenging and entertaining stand-alone tactical mission that you can imagine for UFO:AI? Imagine it, but without referring to tech-tree, without referring to story. Just think what you would like to be able to do during a tactical mission. Just think what would be a cool challenge of an alien.

altugi

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2006, 01:10:37 am »
Actually here I have a suggestion for the tech-tree.

I think autopsy of dead squad members could be a way to put forward certain research topics. By finding out what has caused the death of the units, solutions could be developed to protect endangered units in future missions. This could provide ground to introduce certain types of protective gear or preventives such as vaccines.

PsyWarrior

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2006, 01:35:18 am »
Well blow me down. I have been known to write some insanely long posts in my time, and I'll be damned if that isn't the longest post I've seen :roll:

After reading through it, the ideas seem logical (battlescape needs to be good as a higher priority than the other parts of the game, since this is where the core of the game is).

However, I also strongly believe that the other parts of the game, geoscape, bases, techtree, storyline need to be polished too. At the expense of Battlescape? No. In addition to battlescape? Most definately.

I like your idea (to some extent) about examining how KIA squad members were killed, and developing enhanced protection based on that. However, is there a risk that players would deliberately want to get lower-ranked / less skillful squad members killed to advance research?

-PsyW

altugi

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2006, 02:16:10 am »
Hehehe... writing is the only thing I can do I guess :-)

You are right, players would definately exploit the autopsy feature. But I am not sure if this is all too bad.

I used to create two "slaves" in my Sims family. They did all the cooking and cleaning stuff. And they also managed all relationships with friends. They were sharing one bad in turn and barely ever found time to take a shower. The rest of the family was busy having children and making a career :-)

In war, love and games, everything is justified :twisted:

I hope I can also come up with ideas that would keep exploitation of this feature on a certain level.

altugi

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Can we have them? Or does the engine say no?
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2006, 03:28:55 am »
Low-Intelligence Alien Life Forms

Alien Class:
Breeders and Feeders

(Sources for inspiration from mother nature
Pomegrenade types, moonflower types (spreading seeds through bursts), carrier types, metamorphoses types, egg-layer types, cocoon types…)


Characteristics:
-Low intelligence
-No artificial weapons and arms
-Biological defense or hunting systems with lethal impact on human bio-system
-Behavior is instinctive, They rather carry out genetically "inscribed" tasks such as providing food for their young or stilling their hunger
-They consider humans as food


Types:

Large Arachnoid

Spider-like big alien with 3 to 5 youngs on its back. Moves slowly, but fires a sticky substance towards humans within its range. Once fired, the sticky substance will slowly turn into a gas cloud that seems to be attrackted by humans. Once the gas reaches a human, it paralyzes him and enters his body. As a result the inner organs of the victim will start to melt and will be ready for consumption by small arachnoids.

It turns out that this “substance/gas” is alive. It is actually a swarm of nano organisms. It has difficulties to organise itself, so it floats rather slow. Soldiers will need masks with nano-filters in order to prevent to be paralyzed by the swarm. However they won't go away easily and will try to find access to the body, so they should be killed before they succeed to find an entrance. :wink:  The swarm can be killed with flamethrowers or spraydoses containing anti-organic gas.

Small Arachnoid

They will follow the swarms in the hope to find food ready for consumption. They will bite and sting angrily, should they find out that the “food” is still alive.


Egg-Layer

The Egg-layer lays eggs at relatively quick intervals, which turn into hungry larvae chasing the humans around them. The egg-layer will continue to lay eggs until he is killed. A last effort before death will unleash 3 to 5 larvae.


Larvae

They’re hungry.

Reenen

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2006, 09:40:55 am »
I really like the idea of researching your KIA soldiers... However, you could research your "injured" soldiers too. :-)

But it won't be exploited if the returns are small enough.  
Typically:
Just increase the effectiveness of the medikit.  Which would basically mean smaller recovery periods necessary.

Or, a slight upgrade in armor against that particular alien attack.

You could "research" it everytime someone gets injured/killed and it would just be a research with diminishing returns.  Eventually your soldiers will be ready for battle in hours instead of days.

Offline Malick

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« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2006, 11:30:31 am »
Hi !

Hey Altugi, I like some of your ideas, some I have to disagree. By the way, you seem to be quite productive ;)

First: I am one that believes that an excellent story is actually more important than anything else. The next thing in order of priority is immersion and atmosphere. Once a game gets these two right, I can excuse any flaw or bug. In fact, a tactical mission has no reason to be if it doesn't fit into a particular story. It can be the most challenging, funny or anything, if it doesn't fit into a story, it's just another tactical mission.

I know that tac missions are important, and I think that's why the first dev team started by programming this aspect of the game. Because making challenging missions in a 3D map is a technical task. Everything else belongs to the setting and the immersion ! For example I would rather have an editable log for each soldier than a super realistic physics model for the game.

Without a strongly believable storyline and techtree, tac missions are just what their name tells. On the other hand, if the mission fits perfectly in the story line, we can have great fun with a very simplistic mission. Any one ever tried to capture an alien commander in UFO ? I may have tried a hundred times to intercept a big enough ship, risked my agents' lives, developed tactics, felt stupid when the alien tried to shoot his blaster next a wall... This felt right because I wanted to capture him alive, because I had to if I wanted to have intel on the enemy.

Next : I wanted to know, are weapon stats fixed in game ? I mean, can a weapon or any object stat be changed during the game by a specific event (like a technology) without using a new model ? This could prove useful, like for the medikits for example.

"Recent firefights with the enemy left us with many wounded and killed operatives. After a study of last month causes of death by enemy fire, it has been decided to improve our operatives' medical abilities on the field. The medikits in dotation have been upgraded to a new standard, better reflecting the actual threats encountered during battle, giving better chances of survival for wounded soldiers."

Malick

altugi

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Design: Storyline
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2006, 01:25:03 pm »
Malick,

Quote from: "Malick"
By the way, you seem to be quite productive ;)


Thanks  :) I just try to do the best I can.


I think we both agree that we have to work towards a balance of layers in design, which will turn the game as a whole into a unique experience. However, at the moment I try to discipline myself to isolate the tactical missions in order to think on them without having tech-tree and story constraints as a limiting burden on my creativity. I want to sqıeeze out more game features from the already implemented/cıded combat features. Because sometimes it is really cool how much things you can discover by experimenting with functions without yet referring to a tech-tree or a story. Regard it as an exercise with a certain layer of the game.

For example what would happen if I assign the AI of a certain enemy type to one of the Phalanx members? As player I would lose control over my unit and it would start to shoot at me, right? Well, that is a nice challenge and as players it would be something that I want to prevent from happening. I would like to have means to reverse the situation.

But how could I "stage" this interesting experiment as a believable combat event?

I could introduce "fear" as a psychologic element. Actually a simple bar. Events would increase its level and at a certain point my unit would be assigned to enemy AI. It would shoot at me for a while, but each shot would distracts a bit fear from the fear bar and eventually my unit would normalize. The AI would release it and I could control it again. I would name the event by  displaying a message when AI takes the unit over: "Unit has gone berserk". This will name it and the player will be aware of it.

Another option: I would come up with an alien that causes the unit to be given under control of enemy AI. For example the brainsucker in X-Com was used to stage and trigger the handover. If you couln't prevent brainsucking, your player was controlled by (I guess) Antropod AI.

But since brainsucking has been tried, why don't we use a swarm of nano-aliens? They get into you body, and once they are in, they control the unit. Actually they are all different ways to stage the same scripted event, the takeover of units by enemy AI.

Once you have found an interesting thing to stage the event, you can further develope it. From the swarm we can reach its antitode. You can kill the swarm with a flamethrower. But trying to free an attacked unit before it is converted would definately leave it injured. So we would develope an anti-alien spray and a spraydose (haha) as a better solution. Or we would develope a vaccine and a vaccine gun that, once the unit is hit, releases it from AI control. In order to develope these devices we'd have to research/autopsy an injured or killed unit. We could also develope grenades that freeze the swarm for a while or reduce it to the sticky substance it was initially. And once we have researched the sticky substance, we could come up with our own swarm, enabling us to convert aliens...

You see, so many things from an experiment on AI use. (The swarm idea, btw, was inspired by Michael Crichton's "The Prey") My experiment with the given code, results in a quasi-story, suggest a tech-tree and is a good way to nurture story and progress in the game.

After all I think i just try to suggest a method. There will be many others and all might have nice results. The other ends you mentioned to approach design are of course equally important.

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Can we have them? Or does the engine say no?
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2006, 01:45:36 pm »
Quote from: "altugi"
Low-Intelligence Alien Life Forms
<snip>

One thing about this. The current alien design prefers a mechanical-based alien force over an organic one. Examples are the Cyborg Ortnok nand the Hovernet. Motivation for that decision is written here.

As for the tactical missions, there will be some more stuff in there than there is now. There will be flying enemies, flight ability for human soldiers, 2x2 aliens and tanks, psionics. But don't expect things like grappling hooks or walking on walls. And, before someone mentions it, NO destructable terrain.

I think the tactical missions, given the additions mentioned above, are pretty good already. Of course, there are bugs, but there are always bugs. I think the brunt of the development should now go into geoscape, notable UFOs and UFO interceptions. Almost equally important is the storyline. The storyline is, as Malick already pointed out, what ties the tactical combat missions together into one game experience, rather than a hundred times the same thing.

So, let's stop bickering about layers and singling out things and all that other bollocks, we're not getting anywhere. Since this is the storyline thread, let's talk about the storyline in concrete terms. Take ideas for other parts of the game to other threads, please.

I've mentioned this a few times before, but one element of the storyline I'd like to see is a "The Gloves Are Off" research item, which basically becomes available after an x number of terror missions. The idea is that humanity decides "fair" warfare (as laid down in the Geneva Conventions) does not apply to aliens. Thus, alien corpses may be studied in whatever way the scientists see fit, and live aliens may be interrogated and researched in any way deemed necessary. Effectively, this research topic would open up the autopsy research tree and the live alien research tree.

Offline BTAxis

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« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2006, 01:59:09 pm »
Here's a description for the UFOpaedia entry. I suggest it be included in the design docs.

#####################################################################
The Gloves Are Off

In the weeks that have passed, the aliens have attacked several of our population centers. Representatives of the major political blocks have growing increasingly vehement in their requests that something be done. Today, in a special UN Security Council meeting, it was unanimously decided that the aliens are not subject to our laws and conventions - including the Geneva Conventions. To put it another way, the aliens don't have human rights, as they're not human. Commander, you are now authorized to perform research on alien corpses in any way you deem necessary. You are also authorized to take alien prisoners, interrogate them, and even perform experiments on them. The gloves are off, Commander. Our future depends on you.

researchtime 120 days
requires <x number of terror attacks>

#####################################################################