Design: Storyline

[BTAxis]

Well, on an intellectual level, you're right, of course. But I was thinking in terms of game mechanics. Since you can't perform research on live aliens, it's pointless to capture them until you can, ergo you don't. It's of course TECHNICALLY still possible to capture them alive, but as you don't have any alien containment, the aliens would be killed anyway.

[XCOMTurcocalypse]

Still it is a bit strange of Earth Governments to treat Aliens mercifully at the beginning.But that may be explained with the complacency due to global prosperity and lack of wars.

Anyways,will there be a picture file for "the gloves are off" research?I think I have one for such a thing,drawn by a friend and scanned it.It is a sectoid like Alien in chains,with a grim-looking scientist before him,with a bloody tool...wait let me look up for it in the computer,sadly,the filename is freaking long....

[altugi]

What about this storyline? (PsyW, I kept it especially long for you  :lol: )

Note: I added a conspiracy to the initial story line.


1st event. (News) Activated almost at game start.  
Aliens attack our world. Thousands of people are dead, injured or missing. UN Security Council announces urgent meeting.

2rd event. (News) Triggered x hours before our first tactical mission
Minor alien incidents reported all around the globe. Demand for specialized rescue forces increases rapidly.

3rd event. (News) Triggered immediately after completion of alien container research.  
UN council decides on contacting alien leaders in order to clear intentions and to work out possible peace deal. All security forces are strictly ordered to only conduct preventive or protective actions. (Translation: No Experiments! Put that dammit aliens into the fridge and wait.)

4th event. (News) Triggered 3 days after completion of alien container research
Corps of tortured soldiers found. Officials fear the soldiers have been subject to alien experimentation. However, motives of experiments remain uncleared.

5th event. (Mission) Triggered after event 4.
Aliens introduce new weapon in combat.

6th event. (News) Triggered 1 day after event 5
UN establishes first contact with Aliens. Aliens propose scientific cooperation as first step towards peace. However attacks continue.

7th event. (News) Triggered 3 days after event 6
Aliens propose to exchange genetic maps. Scientists excited.

8th event. (News) Triggered x hours after event 7
Corps of tortured soldiers found.

9th event. (Mission) Triggered after event 8.
Aliens introduce yet another new weapon.

10th event. (Dialogue)  Triggered after event 9
We are approached by a politician. After hearing latest news from the combat locations he believes that his "collegues" are too blind to see the truth about the aliens. He urges that  immediately something must be done to expand our knowledge on the alien species or it will be too late to develope the means to stop them. He offers help to establish a secret Research Lab at our base. However that is all he can do for us at the moment due to the restrictions put by the UN Council. Unfortunately, all research costs will be on us.

11th event. (Message) Triggered immediately after event 10
Secret Research Lab available.

12th event. (News) Triggered x days after event 11
UN Council agrees to exchange genetic maps as a first step towards peaceful relations.


Note:Event 13 has been removed... Seemed like an distracting reminder of the torture cases to me.


14th event. (News) Triggered x days after event 13
Scientists raise concern that alien gen map could be fake.

15th event. (News) Triggered x hours after event 14
Aliens start big wave of attacks. UN Building under fire. World worries about missing UN Council members.

16th event. (Mission) Triggered x hours after event 15  
We are informed that the location of the missing UN Council members has been found. We are assigned to carry out a rescue mission.

17th event. (News) Triggered immediately after event 16
Phalanx receives special praise. Freed UN Council members announce that at this point, declaring war is inevitable. Human forces are ordered to use all means at their disposal to defeat the enemy.

18th event. (Dialogue) Triggered immediately after event 17
The politician contacts us again. He announces that the lab is now legal and that research will be from now on subvented by the UN.

***

Issues: What if we fail the mission in which we have to rescue the UN council members. Or what if we win, but all of them are dead? :roll:

***

Comments?

[XCOMTurcocalypse]

RolePlaying-alike Storyline.Niice.Could add a lot of spice on gameplay.

However after the 17th Event you need an explanation why nukes,enhanced with the technology of that time,aren't used.If I'd be a politician,and a UFO is attacking my capital and the situation is REALLY DESPERATE,I wouldn't hesitate to push the button.And yes I stopped worrying and loved the bomb.

[PsyWarrior]

I like the idea of having a progression of the 'atrocities' story, building up to a "Gloves are Off" event. What I particularly like in altugi's storyline (apart from the length ), is the idea of the 'news' reports. It makes sense to me that you (Commander of the Elite Force assigned to defend earth) would have an intel officer to inform you of the latest alien related events around the world (not discovered directly by Phalanx, picked up either through civilian news sources or from contacts in UN, NATO, etc).

I think it would be a good thing to have background events shown, just in small dialogues, that the player doesn't directly experience. Example:

Heading: Intel Officer

Attacks Confirmed

Sir,
Reports of alien attacks are confirmed, thousands are dead, injured or missing in various places around the globe. The UN Security council is preparing for an emergency meeting at this time.
I'll keep you apprised.

--

However, having said this, I'm not convinced about the idea of illegal labs / research, because it seems to reduce the impact of the 'gloves are off' pronouncement. It seems like better story progression to me to build up the alien atrocities, have a couple of terror attacks and the news reports of other things happening - corpse of tortured soldier / civilian found - I like the idea of an attack against the UN, followed by a rescue mission, and then finally the message comes through revoking their POW rights.

If there is any possibility of having an illegal lab, the player should be able to decide to refuse it (maybe there's a possibility of losing some funding or something if an illegal lab is constructed and (random chance) UN discovers it).

-PsyW

EDIT:
BTAxis, I like your proposed description of the 'Gloves are Off' event.

EDIT2: Yay, I managed to post without BTAxis getting in first! My counter-intelligence system is working...

[altugi]

RolePlaying-alike Storyline.Niice.Could add a lot of spice on gameplay.

 I'm glad you liked it  :wink:

...after the 17th Event you need an explanation why nukes,enhanced with the technology of that time,aren't used.

Your argument already opens a door to answer it. You say the things "of that time"... But, really, what do we know about "that time"? Actually nothing, we just assume that things must have progressed (have become better) beyond our current state. But a story can say that things went into a different direction.

Actually a story is not responsible towards the real world and the assumptions we nurture about it. That is not its priority, especially not since it is a fiction, trying to maintain its own agenda and put itself forward as a unique world, a world of its own. A story is in first stance only responsible towards itself and to its agenda. And a good designed game utilizes story telling techniques to suggest its agenda and prioritize certain things over others.

Why didn't we ask for nukes in X-Com Apocalyse? Because its whole game world was a suggestion not to ask for them. The game play, the mechanics, its emphasis on tactical missions and UFO interceptions, its storyline... everything was suggesting that nukes are not an option in this design. We never asked ourselves why we couldn't nuke the alien planet. Using nukes in the game wouldn't just have killed the aliens, but also the game itself.

If our game world with all its features and its presentation of the situation can suggest strong enough that nukes are not relevant to what this game is about, then noone will ask why the world in 2084 doesn't use nukes. Not even the story, but the gameplay will make us forget it.

As aristotle once said, fiction has to be real, but it doesn't have to be realistic.
[/quote]

[BTAxis]

First, some comments on altugi's chain of events. Most of it is pretty good, but the bits where the aliens offer to exchange genetic maps and offer scientific cooperation are out of place. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not even justifiable by saying it's some kind of scheme to trick the humans, because nobody is going to be tricked by someone offering peace while at the same time carrying out attacks. So I say scratch those bits (and, by extension, event 14). Let's go with purely malevolent aliens who do not communicate except during interrogation.

Now, more generally: in the current story background, the year is set at 2084 (a no-prize for the person who knows where that came from). Technology won't have progressed that far by then. No space age, no lasers, no Scotty beaming up people. But things like the ICE giving way to something else, yeah, that's likely.

Of course, this date can be changed at any time if it is more convenient for a believable storyline, so don't pin yourself down on it. But I think it's a reasonable date - it's sufficiently far into the future to be science-fiction, and to allow for a unified earth to be saved rather than a warring one, but it's close enough for most of the human technology to be contemporary.

As for nukes... Yeah. altugi is right when he says it would kill the game. Besides, people don't nuke themselves in self-defense. They don't. Not even the most deranged dictator wouldn't do that. They'd nuke alien bases if they were sufficiently far away from population centers (like, in a desert or something), but not their own people.

But, even that scenario must be ruled out. It's just not part of this particular game. You want nukes? C&C is the game for you, not UFO.

[altugi]

PsyW,

actually you are right, it would work well without the secret lab. I read it by skipping the secret lab related events and it still seemed to work.

By the way, I liked BTaxis wording too. It is a good text.

To go back to an earlier issue, I didn't mean that BTaxis suggested an incoherent text, I just meant that the text could be used as a base to expand it into a coherent story. Meaning, I suggested to reach the "Gloves Off" with a appropriate build up.

What I was unsure about  was the idea to prevent people from doing alien research and then suddenly saying that now they can do it, because a bunch of politicans said that that was cool so. Somehow this was asking for a built up. That was why I came up with the secret lab suggestion and later on with that 18 events.

On the other hand, if we can research weaponry etc right from the start, then just missing the alien life cycle research topics wouldn't be such a big deal anyway. You could then prefer this event built up rather to contribute to the games overal atmosphere.

[BTAxis]

What I was unsure about  was the idea to prevent people from doing alien research and then suddenly saying that now they can do it, because a bunch of politicans said that that was cool so. Somehow this was asking for a built up. That was why I came up with the secret lab suggestion and later on with that 18 events.

Well, see, the point to that research isn't the research on aliens per se. It's just that prior to the "gloves are off" event, you can't do any USEFUL research. Scientists can take pictures of them, and say "look, it's got two legs", but that doesn't help. After the event, though, they can say "Well, we covered one in petroleum and set him on fire, and he seemed to be in a lot of pain! I suggest you use flamethrowers against this type of alien". And THAT's useful information. So that's the reason why the research tree would only be unlocked after the event.

[altugi]

but the bits where the aliens offer to exchange genetic maps and offer scientific cooperation are out of place. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not even justifiable by saying it's some kind of scheme to trick the humans, because nobody is going to be tricked by someone offering peace while at the same time carrying out attacks.

Actually, I tried to use a technique often referred to as counter-identification. You present an obvious thing, obvious for the player of course, but the "people" ın the game dont seem to be aware of ıt. This gives the player a certain feeling of superioty as he believes to see something that others cant -meaning the player actually identifies with the problem against the game characters, not together with  them, therefore the "counter"prefix- .  But in this way you relate him to the story, because if someone feels he knows better what goes on and believes that another way of conduct is needed, then he has already adopted the problem as one of his own. Usually this will also make him want to see how the "people" will react when they have to face the consequences of their ignorance. That is usually the "I told you, but you didnt listen" moment.

Many movies start with scenes that build up such  counter-identification. The aim is to lure the player into the story by making him adopting the problem. Then you introduce the hero who seems to be the only person that is aware that something else is going on, even if he doesnt know exactly what it is. But at least he is sceptical about things and this creates closeness between him and you, because only him and you seem to think in the right way. The result is identification with the character.

But in a game, that hero is already there, its the player himself. So you cant introduce someone whos already there. You would rather introduce someone who affirms your position as being a right one. So I used the politican. He is a replacement for the moment in which the hero would enter a movie.

I also thought that  conter-identification would be a technique that is in harmony with the "savior" position that the player has in the game, because of the superiority feeling that it utilizes.

Anyway, I dont argue that I implemented the techniqe well. I just say that I tried to do it.   If you think that the "formula" is ok, then we just need to come up with some other coherent content that makes it work.

[BTAxis]

I thinks it works pretty well if you just leave out the bits that make no sense. It's really not that complicated.

[altugi]

This is the updated storyline. Simple, full of sense  :wink:


1st event. (News) Activated almost at game start.
Aliens attack our world. Thousands of people are dead, injured or missing. UN Security Council announces urgent meeting.

2nd event. (News) Triggered x hours before our first tactical mission
Minor alien incidents reported all around the globe. Demand for specialized rescue forces increases rapidly.

3rd event. (Mission)
First time we go to combat aliens.  

4th event. (News) Triggered x days after event 3  
Corpses of tortured soldiers found. Officials fear the soldiers have been subject to alien experimentation. However, motives of experiments remain uncleared.

5th event. (Mission)
The first mission following event 4. Aliens introduce new weapon in combat.

6th event. (News) Triggered x days after event 5.
Corps of tortured soldiers found.

7th event. (Mission)
First mission after event 6. Aliens introduce yet another new weapon.

8th event. (News) Triggered x days after event 7.
Corps of tortured soldiers found.

8th event. (News) Triggered x hours after event 7.
Aliens start big wave of attacks. UN Building under fire. World worries about missing UN Council members.

9th event. (Mission) Triggered x hours after event 8.
A mission brief tells that the location of the missing UN Council members has been found. We are assigned to carry out a rescue mission. During combat Aliens introduce yet another new weapon.

10th event. (News) Triggered immediately after event 9.
Phalanx receives special praise for UN rescue mission. In a statement immediately after the mission, a spokesman of the UN Council stated that Aliens are not subject to the Geneva Conventions since they are not human. Experts say statement suggests experimentation on aliens.

***

BTAxis,

still one point I have against this explanation: Does the "Geneva Convention" make any sense here? Who on earth would ever consider aliens being subject to the convention? It makes as much sense as if aliens would say "we torture your soldiers because we haven't signed the Geneva Convention".

If we want to tell the player "now you can do reseach on live aliens", then the simplest solution is to use a game feature as a prequisite. That works better than an arbitrary explanation. For instance in X-Com Apocalypse it was put quite simple: If you could develope a means to carry aliens to the base, then you could start with research on them.

If you want it really simple, here is my alternative then: Let's only provide a ballistics lab at game start, and have "biogenetics lab" as a research topic. After completion of this research topic you can build the lab and start to research aliens, dead or alive.

No story, no headache.

[altugi]

It's just that prior to the "gloves are off" event, you can't do any USEFUL research. ...snip... So that's the reason why the research tree would only be unlocked after the event.

Why would we offer useless research anyway? Don't you think the player would find this odd? Or even annoying?

[BTAxis]

We don't offer useless research. That's exactly my point. That's why you can't research the live aliens before the event, because doing so would be useless.

[altugi]

We don't offer useless research. That's exactly my point. That's why you can't research the live aliens
before the event, because doing so would be useless.

Research is useless unless it is not useful? This sounds a bit tautologic.

Anyway, if you consider this as an event almost at game start, as an informative element that notifies the player that he can start with research, then that is ok. I believe it makes sense if the event is triggered right after the first mission in the game. "Oh, I can research aliens! Cool..." and who really cares what convention allows me to use it. We understand the funtion of the event, and continue playing.

However, if I have to wait too long into the game, then things really become different. It is rather annoying if I suddenly hear that a convention that hasn't been mentioned in the game before is now lifted and that I have been granted to do researh. I'd ask why the heck I had to wait for 120 days for a merely meager explanation of why I couldn't have this thing before. Actually it could feel like it is an arbitrary decision of the makers of the game. One would think he was just subject to sort of a experimentation and it might even feel unfair.

Let's assume that the first time I play the game, it makes me happy to hear that I can do research on aliens, even if the reason why I couldn't have had it for 120 days doesn't make much sense to me. Despite the waiting for nothing, I can live with it. But imagine the same person playing the game a second time, a third, a fourth time: I'll have to wait for this dammit Geneva Convention event. If at least I would have been given a chance to make it happen earlier.

Why would you build a dam into something which obviously would have flown otherwise? For the sake of delaying it? For the sake of the event?

If you built that dam into the game stream, either give a better explanation for it with a more believable background story, or give the player at least a chance to to make it happen with his own efforts. Otherwise you just force passiveness on him.

Doesn't "unlocking a tech-tree" imply some player action that makes it happen? In the way this event is put, we don't unlock research. We are arbitrarily granted to do research. So either it should be granted right after the first alien attacks have happened, then it doesn't feel arbitrary and is just a notification, sort of a reminder to not ignore the research feature. Or, if for whatever reason you want the event to be delayed for a while, you should present it as something that can be unlocked by meeting certain conditions. Granting it after quite a while based upon an arbitrary event shouldn't be our option here I think.