Messages

1

Design / Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)

« on: March 12, 2011, 09:05:13 pm »

A huge part of this game that interested me was the accurate science, so I'd like to better integrate that with the storyline. After all, most of the storyline stuff is presented as text documents, so an alternate campaign won't need any fancy new code.

The scientific accuracy would be a welcomed feature to any campaign. However, one must be aware that some "artistic licence" may be needed to help drive the story, or to match certain game mechanics...

As it stands now, I'm not too sure what will an alternate campaign entail; I guess that would also depend on how much "variation" from the default/original one the author(s) have in mind. Personally, I wouldn't be too interested in a "new campaign" that simply replaces a handful of words in some text entries of the original: that would hardly qualify as anything worth playing *in stead* of the original, and it would be somewhat unfair to the developers of the original... Based on that, I would surmise that a *true* alternative to the default/original campaign may be slightly more complicated to develop than just changing some text here and there.

Now, without trying to debate any of your points at this time, I am raising a question: How do you plan to work those points into a storyline?

2

Design / Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)

« on: March 05, 2011, 02:56:00 am »

OK, I AM *NOT* HAPPY WITH THE OFFICIAL STORY!! And I suspect I'm not the only one. There, I said it! It's in the open now.  

What I'm proposing to anyone feeling the same way (and interested in a challenge) is to start thinking about some alternate stories, to replace the current one. The first step would be to outline any ideas, then see how they might work and how they can be further developed. Please keep posts short and avoid going into too much detail at this time... This is supposed to cover mostly concept work.
If any concept stories would seriously take flight, a separate topic will be created to discuss each of them.

So, who wants to be the first contestant?  


EDIT: It seems the original post I made here was somewhat lacking in clarity, so let me rectify that: "Alternate stories" should be interpreted as "ALTERNATE CAMPAIGNS" in the context. What I meant by "replacing the current one [i.e. story]" was to create a completely separate playable campaign, that the user can install (and enjoy) in stead of the official one. I have *NEVER* meant, nor am I interested in, coming up with proposals to revamp the current storyline (and, somehow, twist the developers' hands into implementing such changes on my behalf)! I hope I've made the purpose of this new thread perfectly clear now, to everyone -- just think "Add-on Mods"...

3

Design / Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!

« on: March 05, 2011, 02:32:59 am »

Since we are dealing in science fiction and not science fact, all things are possible. [...]

Wrong. If 'all things are possible' as you put it, then you're talking about a work of fiction, a fantasy, and not *SCIENCE*-fiction.

And for your information, Jules Verne's work is well over a century old, to date. It is obvious that science has made quite a bit of progress since then...

I'll post these two excerpts from a decent article about engaging a superior force. As I suspect you may not be from this planet and may not understand human nature and the mind of a fundamentalist/freedom fighter.

OK, there are a few things I'd like to say here:

• What's your point? What are you trying to prove here?
• Can you provide a link to the full article, rather than some out-of-context snips?
• I hope you realize the discussion was about Military Tactics, not mindless terrorist attacks...

(Smiley) OK my point here would be thus: It is called subversion. [...]

Again, you have missed my point completely, and went way off on a tangent. Try reading my post one more time... Carefully.

Yes there is a good reason why Sci-fi writers like to speal of FTL drives, because it is an established literary means of transport. There are many other ways that the aliens could travel from point to point, but FTL is the simplest and easiest for readers to both understand and grasp.

Oh, actually there aren't that many ways... And there's nothing either simple or easy about grasping the physics behind them. By the way, 'Faster Than Light (FTL) travel' is more of a generic term, covering any number of various different/related concepts and speculations -- including that of 'traversable wormholes' you are describing (from the Stargate series). It is also a misnomer, in that whilst it implies the use of superluminal speeds, most methods described as 'FTL travel/propulsion' do not propose such a blatant breach of special relativity.

We must not forget that XVI is at least 1,000,000 years ahead of us, and the original host life form was how many millions ahead before infection?
Although the downfall of a hive mind is that even though the host mind has fantastic technological advancement, it does not always follow that XVI will know how correlate and catagorise that information for further study or use. [...]

Really?! Why would you think that, exactly? I mean, you seem to imply a certain disparity between the XVI (which should really be perceived as a 'network of minds') and its infected hosts, for which I fail to see any grounding reasons. So, would you care to explain yourself?

[...] XVI will be forever doomed to roam the universe resource stripping and assimilating. Much like the decadent borg.

LOL!!  I'm... really not sure how 'decadent' applies to the Borg. Would you mind enlightening me?


EDIT: Based on your reply below, it is obvious you are incapable (for whatever reason) to understand what I'm talking about. I think I am wasting my time talking to you -- and I'm not too much of a fan for waste. So, chances are I'll ignore you henceforth. Have a nice life!

4

Design / Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!

« on: February 08, 2011, 11:49:19 pm »

The ridiculousness of the alien mothership and galactic conquest and exploitation has been addressed, so I won't touch it. I will say that it's incredibly at odds with the highly realistic detailed description in the UFOpedia, as well as the discrepancy in genres (horror in an RTS setting).

Correction: That particular issue with the currently sanctioned storyline has been pointed out (quite a few times, actually -- and by several members), but it was never addressed. Hence, it is *still* an issue... One which I'm firmly convinced by now it will never be addressed by the authors.

<1> The fundamental difference in viewpoint can be used to explain the 'invasion'. The 'hive mind' sees Humanity as a new kid on the block and wants to get to know us better, just so happens that that means assimilation. <2> Second, there's no reason the Aliens would want to colonize earth: they are space faring, with the resources of the Asteroid belt, you could build a ring of space habitats that have literally hundreds of thousands of times the surface area of the Earth, all of which it totally usable (unlike the Earth's which has a lot of extremes). In this scenario, the alien's invasion of Earth is just a sideshow, while they colonize the system bu building space habitats.

<1> Hmm... Sorry, I'm not convinced; "We'll assimilate you in order to learn about you (and bring us closer to perfection)" sounds too Borg-ish to me. It has (obviously) been done before...
<2> I'm not sure I follow you through; nobody said anything about colonising Earth. XVI's intent is, as far as the current story goes, to acquire more hosts and possibly 'strip-mine' the planet -- with the former being clearly the primary objective: More hosts. That's why I'm uncertain what you meant: Are you criticising this position? Offering an 'alternate story', perhaps? ...

I won't be quoting the rest of your post. Whilst I'm still a bit confused about what you're trying to do here, I'll assume you are in fact proposing an alternate storyline (seems like a sensible assumption); unfortunately, I can already see some major issues developing in here as well -- mind you, their 'extent and severity' depend largely of how much of the current story you're keeping in the background. Short list of them below:

• Two things: First, no species gets to be dominant without first overcoming its competitors. Natural selection is a very natural, very real mechanism. In other words, XVI would not have gotten a (strong) hold on the entire Galaxy if it wouldn't have succeeded against the opposition (starting with its own creators). Hence, you cannot imply that XVI, being a 'cooperation-oriented' entity, has a poor grasp on the concept of competition; such claim would be invalid. -- assuming XVI's background story still stands (i.e. the 'hive-mind' is already number-one in the whole of Milky Way, when the game commences);
• Second, it would be tactically unsound (more appropriately, it would be *utterly stupid*) to engage an unknown enemy in a direct assault. Again, in order to rise to absolute dominance, XVI is likely to have fought several wars (and obviously won all of them). Hence, the concept of 'data gathering / reconnaissance missions' and tactics such as 'probing enemy defences before striking' couldn't possibly be beyond it.
• How would you justify a (rather sudden) interest in diplomacy, on behalf of XVI?
• 'Good old-fashioned radio waves' have a major disadvantage, story-wise. They can be easily detected, even with today's technology; radio waves are something *we* have a pretty good understanding of. It'll make identifying any XVI hosts dead-easy: if a person has the same electromagnetic profile as a mobile network relay, then he/she is surely infected !
• NO!! One cannot ignore or downrate the necessity of having (*some* form of) FTL propulsion capability, in a story that involves Galactic exploration/conquest. There *must* be a very good reason why FTL drives seem to appear so often in works of science-fiction, regardless of media. Think about this very carefully: our Galaxy is huge, of almost incomprehensible size; the distances any space faring race would have to travel between neighboring stars are incredible; several generations could easily succeed aboard such a spacecraft -- from a human perspective. In order to be able to negotiate such distances within a more palatable, human-like timeframe, one is forced to resort to a plot device such as an FTL drive... Not to mention that, should XVI be lacking such means of locomotion, then the whole Galaxy-wide dominance would be out the door as well.

That's about it for now, with more to come... Meanwhile , please continue to expand and refine your 'alternate story'.
I apologise. It seems I'm not wearing my good manners tonight: WELCOME to the UFO:AI Forums ! 

5

Feature Requests / Re: fuck realism, dont kill ma soldier ;)

« on: February 04, 2011, 08:38:16 am »

Oh boy... This "please don't kill my soldier" is such a noobish request, it's almost disappointing! No offense, but this is a game of *tactics*; choosing the wrong ones to approach a given situation, or being unable to adapt to changing conditions, WILL RESULT IN TAKING CASUALTIES! That's the way it works!

But, since it seems to have had uncovered a certain, rather relevant gameplay issue, I'll try to concentrate on that. I'm pretty sure you lot remembers the 'Fatal Wound' feature from the original UFO:Enemy Unknown... (if not, then grab that dusty ol' game and have a go at it -- I recommend the 'Superhuman' mode, for maximum adrenaline rush ;-) Something similar could be implemented in here as well.

6

Bugs in older version (2.3.1) / BUG: Globe in 'geoscape' not rendered !

« on: January 23, 2011, 05:25:04 pm »

The Earth globe in 'geoscape' mode is not rendered. Please refer to the screen shot below:

Please find attached the relevant console log as well:

Code: [Select]

2011/01/18 07:46:47 ----- network initialization -------
2011/01/18 07:46:47 libcurl/7.16.4 zlib/1.2.2 initialized.
2011/01/18 07:46:47 ------ server initialization -------
2011/01/18 07:46:47 added 7 maps to the mapcycle
2011/01/18 07:46:47 ----- console initialization -------
2011/01/18 07:46:48 Console initialized.
2011/01/18 07:46:48 ------- video initialization -------
2011/01/18 07:46:48 SDL version: 1.2.14
2011/01/18 07:46:48 I: desktop depth: 32bpp
2011/01/18 07:46:48 I: video memory: 0
2011/01/18 07:46:48 I: Available resolutions: 1440x900 1280x800 1280x720 1024x768 800x600 720x480 640x480 640x400 600x800 512x384 480x360 400x300 320x240 320x200 (14)
2011/01/18 07:46:48 I: video driver: windib
2011/01/18 07:46:48 I: setting mode -1
2011/01/18 07:46:48 I: set swap control to 0
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: 1024x768 (fullscreen: no)
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got 8 bits of stencil
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got 24 bits of depth buffer
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got double buffer
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got 8 bits for red
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got 8 bits for green
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got 8 bits for blue
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got 0 bits for alpha
2011/01/18 07:46:50 I: got 0 multisample buffers
GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation2011/01/18 07:46:50 GL_RENDERER: GeForce 8600M GT/PCI/SSE22011/01/18 07:46:50 GL_VERSION: 2.1.12011/01/18 07:46:50 GL_EXTENSIONS: GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_half_float_pixel GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_shader_objects GL_ARB_shading_language_100 GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_vertex_shader GL_ARB_window_pos GL_ATI_draw_buffers GL_ATI_texture_float GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_S3_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_Cg_shader GL_EXT_bindable_uniform GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test GL_EXT_draw_buffers2 GL_EXT_draw_instanced GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GL_EXT_geometry_shader4 GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_gpu_shader4 GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_EXT_packed_float GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_array GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_integer GL_EXT_texture_lod GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_sRGB GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent GL_EXT_timer_query GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color GL_NV_depth_buffer_float GL_NV_depth_clamp GL_NV_fence GL_NV_float_buffer GL_NV_fog_distance GL_NV_fragment_program GL_NV_fragment_program_option GL_NV_fragment_program2 GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage GL_NV_geometry_shader4 GL_NV_gpu_program4 GL_NV_half_float GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint GL_NV_occlusion_query GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object GL_NV_pixel_data_range GL_NV_point_sprite GL_NV_primitive_restart GL_NV_register_combiners GL_NV_register_combiners2 GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 GL_NV_texture_expand_normal GL_NV_texture_rectangle GL_NV_texture_shader GL_NV_texture_shader2 GL_NV_texture_shader3 GL_NV_transform_feedback GL_NV_vertex_array_range GL_NV_vertex_array_range2 GL_NV_vertex_program GL_NV_vertex_program1_1 GL_NV_vertex_program2 GL_NV_vertex_program2_option GL_NV_vertex_program3 GL_NVX_conditional_render GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGIX_depth_texture GL_SGIX_shadow GL_SUN_slice_accum GL_WIN_swap_hint WGL_EXT_swap_control 2011/01/18 07:46:50 2011/01/18 07:46:50 using GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
2011/01/18 07:46:50 using GL_ARB_shading_language_100
2011/01/18 07:46:50 GLSL Version: 1.20 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
2011/01/18 07:46:50 using GL_ARB_framebuffer_object
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max draw buffers: 8
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max render buffer size: 8192
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max color attachments: 8
2011/01/18 07:46:50 using GL_ARB_draw_buffers
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max supported lights: 8
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max texture units: 4
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max texture coords: 8
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max vertex attributes: 16
2011/01/18 07:46:50 max texture size: detected 8192
2011/01/18 07:46:50 ...but using 2048 as requested
2011/01/18 07:46:50 Using low resolution globe textures as requested.
2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadShader: world_fs.glsl: (215) : error C7531: global variable gl_FragData requires "#extension GL_ARB_draw_buffers : enable" before use

2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadProgram: world:
2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadShader: warp_fs.glsl: (57) : error C7531: global variable gl_FragData requires "#extension GL_ARB_draw_buffers : enable" before use

2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadProgram: warp:
2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadShader: geoscape_fs.glsl: (91) : error C7531: global variable gl_FragData requires "#extension GL_ARB_draw_buffers : enable" before use

2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadProgram: geoscape:
2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadProgram: 'combine2' loaded.
2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadProgram: 'convolve3' loaded.
2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadShader: atmosphere_fs.glsl: (78) : error C7531: global variable gl_FragData requires "#extension GL_ARB_draw_buffers : enable" before use

2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadProgram: atmosphere:
2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadShader: simple_glow_fs.glsl: (19) : error C7531: global variable gl_FragData requires "#extension GL_ARB_draw_buffers : enable" before use

2011/01/18 07:46:50 R_LoadProgram: simple_glow:
2011/01/18 07:46:50 SDL_image version 1.2.6
2011/01/18 07:46:51 SDL_ttf version 2.0.9 - we need at least 2.0.7
2011/01/18 07:46:52 ------- sound initialization -------
2011/01/18 07:46:52 SDL_mixer version: 1.2.8
2011/01/18 07:46:52 ... requested audio rate: 44100
2011/01/18 07:46:52 ... driver: 'dsound'
2011/01/18 07:46:52 ... audio rate: 44100
2011/01/18 07:46:52 ... audio channels: 2
2011/01/18 07:46:52 ------- input initialization -------
2011/01/18 07:46:52 0 possible joysticks
2011/01/18 07:46:52 no joystick found.
2011/01/18 07:46:53 ----------- parse scripts ----------
2011/01/18 07:46:53 50 script files
2011/01/18 07:46:53 47 ui script files
2011/01/18 07:46:56 Shared Client/Server Info loaded
2011/01/18 07:46:56 ... 99 items parsed
2011/01/18 07:46:56 ... 32 damage types parsed
2011/01/18 07:46:56 ... 80 map definitions parsed
2011/01/18 07:46:56 ... 29 equipment definitions parsed
2011/01/18 07:46:56 ... 10 inventory definitions parsed
2011/01/18 07:46:56 ... 20 team definitions parsed
2011/01/18 07:46:56 executing keys.cfg
2011/01/18 07:46:56 music change to van_theme (from PsymongN3)
2011/01/18 07:47:20 CL_LanguageInit: language settings are stored in configuration: en
2011/01/18 07:47:20 SDL_ttf version 2.0.9 - we need at least 2.0.7
2011/01/18 07:47:20 ...registering 10 fonts
2011/01/18 07:47:20 134 static models loaded
2011/01/18 07:47:20 ====== UFO Initialized ======
2011/01/18 07:47:20 =============================
2011/01/18 07:47:20 Priority changed to NORMAL
2011/01/18 07:47:20 Found 2 processors
2011/01/18 07:47:20 Use both cores
2011/01/18 07:47:20 Switch grab input off
2011/01/18 07:49:04 Change gametype to 'Campaign mode'
2011/01/18 07:49:04 --- save subsystem initialization --
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added base subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added research subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added campaign subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added hospital subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added market subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added employee subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added aliencont subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added aircraft subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added installation subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added ufostores subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added production subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added messagesystem subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added stats subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added nations subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added transfer subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added alien base subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added xvirate subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:04 added messageoptions subsystem
2011/01/18 07:49:05 Campaign data loaded - size 4458784 bytes
2011/01/18 07:49:05 ...techs: 189
2011/01/18 07:49:05 ...buildings: 19
2011/01/18 07:49:05 ...ranks: 16
2011/01/18 07:49:05 ...nations: 8
2011/01/18 07:49:05 ...cities: 457
2011/01/18 07:49:05 2011/01/18 07:49:06 Sanity check for script data
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...buildings ok
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...tech ok
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...aircraft ok
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...items ok
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...items ok
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...... city 'ankara' can't be used in game: it has no map fitting parameters
      (No map fitting craft_ufo_harvester2011/01/18 07:49:06 )
2011/01/18 07:49:06       (Terrain: mountain, Culture: oriental, Population: village)
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...... city 'dushanbe' can't be used in game: it has no map fitting parameters
      (No map fitting craft_ufo_harvester2011/01/18 07:49:06 )
2011/01/18 07:49:06       (Terrain: mountain, Culture: oriental, Population: suburban)
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...... city 'konya' can't be used in game: it has no map fitting parameters
      (No map fitting craft_ufo_harvester2011/01/18 07:49:06 )
2011/01/18 07:49:06       (Terrain: mountain, Culture: oriental, Population: village)
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...... city 'mashhad' can't be used in game: it has no map fitting parameters
      (No map fitting craft_ufo_harvester2011/01/18 07:49:06 )
2011/01/18 07:49:06       (Terrain: mountain, Culture: oriental, Population: village)
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...... city 'tehran' can't be used in game: it has no map fitting parameters
      (No map fitting craft_ufo_harvester2011/01/18 07:49:06 )
2011/01/18 07:49:06       (Terrain: mountain, Culture: oriental, Population: village)
2011/01/18 07:49:06 ...nations failed
2011/01/18 07:49:06 music change to karlmacklin_geoscape (from van_theme)
2011/01/18 07:49:25 Wrote config.cfg.
2011/01/18 07:49:25 Shutdown gametype 'Campaign mode'
2011/01/18 07:49:25 Wrote keys.cfg
(pastebin link: http://pastebin.com/nsUepQCV)

7

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: January 19, 2011, 12:01:44 am »

Uh, excuse me, but what exactly is this discussion thread about?  What's the main point?

This discussion is about a "Storyline proposal" (as the thread title clearly shows).

[...] back and forth debate that has gone into what I believe is referred to as "Ad Hominem" arguments - Where people on all sides are not responding to some of the points expressed but instead picking on the use of terminology and the grammar used by others.

Debates are a normal occurence in Forums. As for 'argumentum ad hominem', your "beliefs" are wrong: correcting someone on improper use of vocabulary, grammar, logic etc. is *NOT* an attack against the person itself... but an attack against a person's ignorance. (Unfortunately, it happens that some people care about their ignorance a great deal...)

I'm wondering if this thread should be locked and shuttered.  It doesn't seem to have any real purpose or meaning at this stage, glancing at the most recent posts, and was doomed to begin with.

That depends solely on your wish to abuse the role of Admin; since this thread has not broken any Forum rules and has been kept reasonably on track until now, you have no solid grounds for shutting anything down... Your *very subjective* opinion on its purpose and/or meaning carries no weight whatsoever.

The reasons it was bad to start with:

<1>- This game is a game, not an upwards-of-a-thousand-pages science fiction novel.  The plot is supposed to be rather simple, and shouldn't be expanded to death.

<2>- The storyline/plot is already established and is pretty much finalized.  Changing or revamping anything would mean backtracking in development and/or adding a lot more work for the devs.

<3>- We don't really need more ideas, concepts, or additional story, we already have all the general planning done, are past the early planning stage, and at this time really need artists, people who can make maps and content, and people who can program.

<4>- "open source" does NOT mean "open development" where anyone - especially a newcomer - can come along and be a "boss" by changing stuff, and expect everyone else to revamp stuff and make it all happen in the game, doing all of it *for* such a person.

<5>- Related to the previous point, long ago when this project was new it suffered from this, as many people would come and go from the project, changing and revamping all kinds of things left and right, almost at random as everyone wanted something different, creating a chaotic mess.  I myself wasn't actually around during this, but I've been here long enough to have heard about this.

<6>- The existing storyline is *good enough*, at least for a game, and as such it doesn't need to be re-opened or changed.

<1>- Have you discussed that aspect with Winter, prior to posting? His introduction alone seems to be without end... Not to mention the almost maniacal tendency towards "over-realism" (a very bad trait in a Sci-Fi story) -- i.e. explaining everything to death and, more than once, ending up in ridicule.

<2>- I hope you're not serious when saying that; the storyline is far from being "finalised" -- one thing, it's missing an ending! Besides, most changes suggested thus far only meant rewriting some text resources -- with *minimum to no impact* on other assets, or the game design itself... It's also worth mentioning that some issues were pointed out *years ago*, they were acknowledged by the authors, yet no steps were taken into fixing them. Why?

<3>- Did it ever occur to you that may be most of those who could contribute chose not to do so, because they've lost faith in the current storyline (and the direction it goes into)? Perhaps you should give this some serious thought...

<4>- Actually, the project you're running here *IS* "open development", a fact supported by both the License system adopted for all non-executable game assets (i.e. CC-BY-SA), and your previous call for help...

<5>- This point is a fallacy. The lack of a working project management system in the past is completely *irrelevant* to appraising this particular proposal, here and now! In short, you're making no valid point here as to why *this* proposal is faulty... All I see is some good ol' fashioned noob hatin' -- quite distasteful, really.

<6>- The existing storyline is poor. The concept is hugely outdated and lacking originality, and the execution is sloppy and based on questionable paradigms... All in all, the greatest disappointment for this project...
Turning a blind eye to the problems you have won't make them go away -- contrary to some "popular beliefs" around here.

(** Yes, I said "contrasensical."  If you don't like that word, or don't like my English or grammar, tough shit - I don't care, and I'm not an English major. That being said, when any of you respond to this post, I just ask that you respond to my main points I've made, and not make it about my choice of words, which is what I see a lot of in this thread.  Too much of this thread has gone into the realm of the absurd, and then beyond that.)

"Contrasensical" does not appear to be an English word at all. Would you mind explaining what you think it means?
Now, after I've taken the time to answer all your "points", as requested, could you tell me why did you make this post (which, so far, is the *only* one completely off-topic)? Obviously, you're not interested in debating anything in here; in fact, you can't stand the very idea of it... So why did you do it, then?!

8

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 29, 2010, 10:55:27 am »

High frequences are used [...]

That was a rhetorical question (i.e. I already knew the answer), and not even directed at you – thanks for the answer anyway, as it is the (principially) correct one 
One should also be aware that, on top of the physical constraints on the size of antenna to be used for such low frequency communications (as it was suggested initially), one would have to deal with both reduced bandwidth and (possible) noise interference issues as well...

<1a>-LOL "pimp my story" is hilarious, [...]
<1b>-Maybe, XVI wants to force evolution and create the perfect race.

<2>- There is no problem in saying "roughly" by itself. The problem arises when you put two "roughly xxx" that are separated only by 1 year... immagine it about distance measurements. "your car's back is roughly 100.000 m from me and your car's front is about 99.999 m from me" while i know only that you live in a city about 100 km from mine. It's nothing important anyway.

<3a>-I knew only "babble" and thinking that "technobabble" wasn't a known term with it's own meaning, I interpreted from "babble". Thank you for pointing it out.
<3b>-About low-high ... i don't know the terminology in the field. In my filed "high" may be referred to X or Gamma ... so MW is still low-frequency. I didn't state the exact frequency range since i have no real experience in communication signals used in current technology.
<3c>-Very interesting links. Indeed, i thought "Virus" admitted latin plural.

<4>-About the antenna... the problem is that antennas are a "classical" device. The best way to work on nanoscale would involve quantum transitions and the control of molecular structures. Currently these are archieved at very low temperatures and for different purposes (for now just studying some base properties, such as the energy level structure, anisotropy, magnetism). I stil have to prepare a basic-level exam on this topic from scratch, so i cannot exactly tell you how things work but have a look at the possibilities exposed in some slides without any technobabble http://cm.physics.tamu.edu/seminars/S_Bader_09_09_04.pdf (from Pag 23 it's exalting, although since are slidesthey're not much clear... google more if you are curious). Of course this wouldn't work for my hipotetic technobabble, i pointed it just for curiosity (before somebody start flaming thinking i am trying to connect them)

I may put my efforts in a more gamish proposal, perhaps when i have time i will deepen the solider trait system (including "background traits") i proposed some weeks ago. That would be more useful, wonuldn't it?

<1a> - Yes, well... it was supposed to be hillarious (towards 'ridiculous', even). I was also trying to make the point that the storyline will not benefit greatly from over-complicated (yet uninformed) 'pseudo-explanations'.
<1b> - Highly unlikely. The way the current storyline has been envisioned, XVI simply wants to expand its domain, by acquiring more and more hosts – and it's not even picky about them !...

<2> - OK, you do have somewhat of a point here, although I'd say you delve way too deep in semantics... That would rightfully justify merging the first two entries into a single one, but I *STILL* fail to see why should you add that extra "subsequent years" line there! It's just a pretentious and utterly needless artifact...

<3a> - Well,... now you know.
<3b> - Fine. Nobody knows everything, that's a fact well understood. But you could have documented yourself, couldn't you?
<3c> - As I said, pretty common mistake. I've almost commited it myself; luckily, I do have the habit of checking my assumptions, before acting on them. If this episode proved anything, is that it is a very good habit to have (thus it shall be further reinforced)...

<4> - Well, on the same line of reasoning, the problem is that you proposed a "classical" means of communication in the first place, i.e. through radio waves – which just so happen to go together with a "classical" transmission/reception device, such as the antenna.
I don't think quantum phase transitions are a much better idea either – the main reason, as already stated, being the rather difficult conditions in which they can be achieved. However, like the next "mortal", I do love Quantum Theory; so how about quantum entanglement, then (as a means of communication)?

• Wikipedia: Wireless Sensor Network - An intriguing architecture for multiple-source, real-time signal processing; shows great potential for modelling the "overall design" of XVI.
• Wikipedia: Quantum Computing - Imagine a bacteria gone micro-scale quantum computing element, or "Q-cell"; wouldn't that be a worthy peek into the "inner workings" of XVI?
• PhysOrg.com: Quantum Entanglement - The 'Spooky' Side of Communications - Ready or not, here it comes: Science's first steps into Fiction...

9

Design / Re: Storyline idea!

« on: December 28, 2010, 09:09:00 pm »

[...]<1> My idea after reading Winter`s storyline is to loose the allpowerful hivemind and stick to the more typical evil invading aliens. [...] <2> Also this would allow PHALANX to recruit aliens who stand against opression of theyr own species (and other ones as well) [...]
<3> Point of attacking earth could be...    ...well...     ...umm...             ...it would be a gicantic clishe to say "to enslave humanity"... [...]

<1> Similar ideas – of taking the "all-powerful alien menace" a few notches down, or even drop it completely and just stick with the plain ol' alien invading force – have been suggested before, by several individuals. However, the writers have chosen to ignore them altogether and keep the current storyline "as is". It has become pointless to argue this any further; they simply won't listen to reason.
<2> That, although not an entirely new idea, would be an interesting game element. I would love to be able to play alien characters as well (maybe even have some story tidbits about their interaction with the human counterparts).
<3> Hmm... That is a tough cookie to crack, indeed... I do agree the "enslavement of all mankind" is quite the cliche, but no more than almost all other plot points pertaining to alien invasions. Still, the challenge remains: Can we do better than that?

10

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 22, 2010, 03:41:50 am »

<1>- It's not better, it is the same with some more details.

<2>- About "subsequent yrs": you didn't get the point i was aiming at, but it wasn't obvious. If you write "Roughly 1,000,000" it means that you can't give events with a much detailed time resolution. So it is a formal mistake to give events "roughly 1,000,000 -> R. 999,999". "Subsequent" was referred to the fact i have merged the first steps of storyline in a single step of less-than-thousand years.

<3>- Pseudo-techno babble? First of all, it's not pseudo-techno but in part is reality. And when the alternative explaination is "psionics", which means nothing but is part of "sci-fi culture" i think you can't say my idea is "babble".

<4>- I have read that post about altering the storyline. If i remember correctly it was in response to more radical changes. I repeat, i not going to change anything, just strenghten the structure. And if devs don't like it, they just leave it and no offense is made.

<1> Then *WHY* do it at all?!? What's the point in changing/adding stuff it, if you're not providing any sort of improvement to the overall story, or to certain story elements? Just so you can have some different "bling" words in there, and/or an overly complicated array of details upon details upon details? Who cares about those anyway?!?
Hang on a minute... Is this, perchance, a rerun of the «Pimp My Story» TV-show?
<2> You're absolutely right. I did not get your point at all; and I still don't. So what the hell is wrong with just saying "Roughly [insert some random figure here] years ago"?! (well, as long as the number used makes some sense -- but that's another issue) Why do you feel you need to say more than just that?
<3> This Wiki article explains what "technobabble" means in context: Technobabble (Wikipedia). You should have researched the term yourself -- since it obviously was unfamiliar to you -- rather than making assumptions and getting defensive... until someone points it out to you.
I chose to add the "pseudo-" (Lat. "false") suffix to it because... well, yours is even worse than the normal brand -- proof that, no offence, you don't really know what you're talking about. By the way, have you ever wondered why all our current, modern wireless communication systems operate within the High and Very High frequency range (i.e. "microwaves"), and why we continuously struggle to get even higher? Just a thought...
<4> Umm... I'm pretty sure it said *ANY* changes/suggestions will no longer be admitted. But that's not really important; what I'm still having a hard time understanding is what is it that you think you're doing here...

Besides the fact that Winter said he doesn't take suggestions for the storyline, [...]

Funny enough, not too long before that he was complaining nobody made any suggestions to his story... But what can you say?!
I guess that's just another reason why I generally prefer summer...

Also, yes, they were called wormholes after studying general relativity. It was coined by a physicist in 57, Star Trek came 66. I'm not sure whether space curvature came from it or not but I think yes, it came from it based on the Idea of space-time.

• Wormhole, also known as the Einstein-Rosen Bridge: a particular solution to the field equations developed from the General Relativity theory --> Read more
• Spacetime^{(N.B. not just 'space')} curvature: a core concept within the General Relativity theory (together with that of 'spacetime' itself) --> Read more

@ *ALL*

The correct English plural for "virus" is "viruses", not "viri" (or the alternatively spelled "virii") -- a common mistake.
This article explains why is this so...

11

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 19, 2010, 11:56:45 pm »

I don't get it; how is this *slightly tweaked* storyline of yours any better than the "official" one?!

You're only making minor changes to the initial wording (i.e. " [...] and subsequent years " -- isn't it obvious that a *historic/background* timeline will cover a stream of events from some past moment in time to the "present time" of the epic?!), or adding complexity without any insight or depth (i.e. " [...] not a virus, but a genetically programmed biological nano-bot " -- I'm not even sure what all that pseudo-techno babble was supposed to mean, or what are the implied differences from the "original description" of XVI), thus only confusing the reader and shattering the "suspension of disbelief".

By the way, why are you doing this? As I remember, there was a post from the authors, some good time ago, which clearly stated that no more suggestions/alterations will be accepted to the current storyline, as it is final (own views on this issue notwithstanding). So why bother at all?!

P.S. Should you choose to continue this endeavour, to whatever end and for whatever reasons, let me give you a bit of (free) advice: do use a spelling checker, OK? (e.g. it's 'their', not 'theyr'; 'genome', not 'genoma' etc. etc. )

12

Design / Re: Current Implementation of Storyline

« on: October 10, 2010, 05:09:11 pm »

Forgive me, but the storyline is *WAY* too far from being "awesome", as you put it. It'll take a HUGE effort to make it "decent", and even more for "fair". "Awesome" is not even in range yet...

13

Design / Re: Military Philosophy

« on: October 10, 2010, 05:01:57 pm »

That's the problem with engineers.

Problem?! I really don't see any problems in there... Maybe because I'm an engineer myself.

I guess the practical approach would be to find the answer to this question: " How do you beat an unbeatable opponent? "

14

Discussion / Re: A Wiki for Each Manual

« on: August 07, 2010, 12:04:54 am »

Would it be appropriate, then, for me to move Manual/Troubleshooting to Manual/2.3/Troubleshooting?

I'd rather go for something like "Manual » Troubleshooting » v2.3". It simply makes more sense to me, at a first glance, to have the version number as the subcategory to the troubleshooting topic. Besides, it is conceivable there will be quite a bit of superposition to older versions; grouping them together more tightly may prove quite advantageous...

15

Design / Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!

« on: July 31, 2010, 08:17:06 pm »

I'm thinking of ways to fixing the story issues with as little changes as possible. the path of least resistance.

If you want to go beyond that, there's countless solutions.

I understand that. But since there is absolutely no interest in fixing anything (I'm talking about the current, "official" storyline, of course), why bother coming up with any solutions at all?

Why are the aliens attacking Earth? They are forced to. Or they want to.
If forced, by what or whom? The virus? Some mastermind behind it?
You can turn the virus into a tool of the villain, instead of the "villain". The possibilities are limitless.

Let's say race X was enslaved. Let's say they rebelled and created a virus that made their slavemasters into obedient zombies.Basicly, the XVII makes the target brain extreemly succeptable to psychic suggestion. Or it utterly destroys it, and the infected one is merely a puppet, with no hopes of recovery.

I'm sorry, but this is not exactly a "fix" to the current storyline; it is proposing a completely different storyline to root out all discrepancies, and thus it opposes your own "minimal rework" philosophy you stated earlier. It also gives me the impression there may not be a way to correct the current storyline, without significant rework...

About the storyline - everything is text that can be edited. I believe you can change every line of dialogue, every description in the game.
You can effectively change the whole storyline.

Pretty much so, but I wasn't referring to *just* the text/article resources. There is also other content (models, AI, mission types, game progression etc. etc.) that might be severely impacted by the storyline. If any such content was built directly into the game engine, then modifying it might become very difficult, at best...