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Author Topic: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)  (Read 7091 times)

Offline NicAdi

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OK, I AM *NOT* HAPPY WITH THE OFFICIAL STORY!! And I suspect I'm not the only one. There, I said it! It's in the open now.  :P

What I'm proposing to anyone feeling the same way (and interested in a challenge) is to start thinking about some alternate stories, to replace the current one. The first step would be to outline any ideas, then see how they might work and how they can be further developed. Please keep posts short and avoid going into too much detail at this time... This is supposed to cover mostly concept work.
If any concept stories would seriously take flight, a separate topic will be created to discuss each of them.

So, who wants to be the first contestant?  :)



EDIT: It seems the original post I made here was somewhat lacking in clarity, so let me rectify that: "Alternate stories" should be interpreted as "ALTERNATE CAMPAIGNS" in the context. What I meant by "replacing the current one [i.e. story]" was to create a completely separate playable campaign, that the user can install (and enjoy) in stead of the official one. I have *NEVER* meant, nor am I interested in, coming up with proposals to revamp the current storyline (and, somehow, twist the developers' hands into implementing such changes on my behalf)! I hope I've made the purpose of this new thread perfectly clear now, to everyone -- just think "Add-on Mods"... :)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 11:00:46 am by NicAdi »

Offline vulkus

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 12:23:54 pm »
The obvious problem that everyone has is the time line, it is to short at the beginning with way to much of nothing happening in the middle. Then we skip to 2084, massive gap, if this was a novel I'd have used it as a BBQ starter long ago.

Creator race= Decadent.
Obscure scientific off shoot= attempting to reignite their past glory.
Created AI= Gains sentience and goes rogue, subverts and conquers creator race.
300k span= AI continues to develop self awareness.
Unknown force creates tear in time and space.
Cut to 2084= Temporal disturbance creates space time rift, Anomoly Research Agency (ARA) created to research, collect & collate data on anomoly.
2085= First Contact.

Offline Destructavator

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 08:53:32 am »
I'm sorry, but the official storyline will NOT be replaced, not ever, and there's no magic combination of words anyone can ever post that will change that.

If you do some research in the forum, going back through the years, you'll see that most of the other people involved in this project, especially the devs who were responsible for the official storyline, have given up on explaining this over and over again to newcomers who want to "can" the storyline they wrote and replace it with their own idea.  They won't bother posting about it anymore, and will just ignore threads like these, which means you're wasting you're time.

HOWEVER...

If you do some research you will also see that the game is being designed for ADDITIONAL campaigns with their own alternate plot or storyline as well, so that when starting a new single-player game the player can choose what type of campaign they want to play.

The primary developers and coders have been open to this for some time.

So, bottom line, an additional alternate campaign, yes, but as for throwing out or revamping the original one, NO, that is NOT going to happen.  Never, never ever, no matter what anyone argues.

We used to shutter and delete many threads in the past that dealt with ripping up the original story and plot, now most of us just don't bother anymore.  If this becomes another such thread I might not even bother locking it (you guys are lucky I'm even taking the time to type this post), and no matter what is posted in it or how long it gets, in the end it will just fall on deaf ears for the coders and such and ultimately be a totally wasted effort.

So, additional and alternate that can be a choice for the player without mucking up anything with the original, yes - and that is your only hope - but trashing and replacing the original, NO, not going to happen.

I hope this is clear, and I hope that some of you people will finally get it.

Offline vulkus

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 02:06:15 pm »
Personally I don't have a problem with the story line, A. it isn't my game, B. I don't contribute to it, C. I just play it.
In saying the above, however if your adding possible missions I'd love to see an offshoot where the guys who developed the super virus in the first place haven't all been rendered drones. It would be nice to do a side quest where you discover some data on one of the alien ships pertaining to a rogue faction and a possibility of a location. It would be a nice addition to building space fairing ships, or some type travel to that location in order to assess and or assist these rogue entities.

Offline Crazy Tom

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 04:28:09 pm »
A huge part of this game that interested me was the accurate science, so I'd like to better integrate that with the storyline. After all, most of the storyline stuff is presented as text documents, so an alternate campaign won't need any fancy new code.

My points so far are:
1. The thousands and thousands of years for XVI to develop are way over the top, even if we dumb them down a lot, their science should still be more advanced that what we see in game (most of which is a century or two ahead at best).
2. Replacing Psionics with real EM radiation, have XVI communicate via chemicals(biochem markers made in the body that contain a lot of information in chemical or DNA form and can be deposited on a surface or exchanged directly), weak electric fields (skin to skin contact), radio waves (brain computer interface)
3. FTL... I'd like not to break the laws of physics, and modern physics have left the door barely open on it. Basically, any non-wormhole form of FTL involves time travel, it still takes you a few decades to travel from Sol to say... Sirius, but in a fit of synchronized hand waving, your FTL drive turns back time so you arrive there instantaneously. A drive like this would be limited to "jump nodes" however, whose connections  are all hard coded and immobile in order to avoid accidental time machines that can get you home before you started off (which kind of makes sense, any possible combination of jump points that would have resulted in a closed time like curve would have been destroyed at the moment of their inception as cauchy horizons enveloped them, but that's bot  speculation and digression.).
Basically, 2 forms of FTL:
Wormholes: Require exotic matter, must lie well outside any gravitational field, requires stupendous amounts of matter and energy to create, must be transported to their final destination by STL, will be destroyed if anything over 1% of their total mass attempts to cross. Exotic matter also allows for STL warp drives, exotic matter and wormholes lie well outside XVI's currently demonstrated technological abilities, must be obtained from other source unless currently observed technology is deliberately obsolescent.
Jump Drive: The softer science alternative, instantaneous travel between star systems depending on the mechanics we decide on, but it feels like a cheat, not having any more details on this.
4. Possible victory conditions I think should be realistic:
-Reverse engineering of XVI leads to brain computer interfaces that Phalanx uses to usher in the singularity, merging the sentience of a Human mind with the computing power of the Internet in order to create a entity that can think and process at the same level as the XVI hive mind. New world Order, world peace, cool stuff we can do with this one.
-Humanity develops a relativistic starship and uses it to bring XVI to the negotiating table by threatening the wormhole (which would severe the local chapter from the rest of it's empire), XVI not really interested in Earth except as a valuable injection of new cultural ideas that the homogeneous hive mind can use. Some sort of cease fire is worked out.
-Humanity does destroy the wormhole, XVI largest concentration of industry near Sol is destroyed but there are still multiple instantiation in the Oort cloud and asteroid belt, XVI insurgents on Earth are mounting increasingly complex subversive campaigns, but Humanity  is safe for the moment and can take prepare for the next fight, applying all the technologies it's found.

Comments? Questions?

Offline NicAdi

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 09:05:13 pm »
A huge part of this game that interested me was the accurate science, so I'd like to better integrate that with the storyline. After all, most of the storyline stuff is presented as text documents, so an alternate campaign won't need any fancy new code.
The scientific accuracy would be a welcomed feature to any campaign. However, one must be aware that some "artistic licence" may be needed to help drive the story, or to match certain game mechanics...

As it stands now, I'm not too sure what will an alternate campaign entail; I guess that would also depend on how much "variation" from the default/original one the author(s) have in mind. Personally, I wouldn't be too interested in a "new campaign" that simply replaces a handful of words in some text entries of the original: that would hardly qualify as anything worth playing *in stead* of the original, and it would be somewhat unfair to the developers of the original... Based on that, I would surmise that a *true* alternative to the default/original campaign may be slightly more complicated to develop than just changing some text here and there.

Now, without trying to debate any of your points at this time, I am raising a question: How do you plan to work those points into a storyline?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2011, 09:22:08 pm »
it would be somewhat unfair to the developers of the original...

I don't think any dev would be upset if new text was prepared and released as a mod. Though it's not always apparent from the hostility that many new ideas face, I think most devs would be happy to see more modifications developed and released by users. More people just need to make the committment to turn their ideas into a reality.  A strong "unofficial" development scene will only be beneficial to the progress of the game as a whole.

Offline Mattn

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2011, 09:48:02 am »
I don't think any dev would be upset if new text was prepared and released as a mod. Though it's not always apparent from the hostility that many new ideas face, I think most devs would be happy to see more modifications developed and released by users. More people just need to make the committment to turn their ideas into a reality.  A strong "unofficial" development scene will only be beneficial to the progress of the game as a whole.

nothing to add here - just talking about changes without ever doing them is...

Offline Flying Steel

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 04:55:37 pm »
I don't think any dev would be upset if new text was prepared and released as a mod. Though it's not always apparent from the hostility that many new ideas face, I think most devs would be happy to see more modifications developed and released by users. More people just need to make the committment to turn their ideas into a reality.  A strong "unofficial" development scene will only be beneficial to the progress of the game as a whole.

nothing to add here - just talking about changes without ever doing them is...

I think it is worth noting too, that the only chance at seeing "official" plot or story changes, would be through the proactive approach of creating an ultimately more popular, but initially unofficial mod.

At the point that it became noticeably more popular, the UFO:AI writers might amend their plot with the popular changes or they might have already left to pursue other interests anyway or otherwise you'd potentially have the momentum to create your own "official" X-Com type game reusing the same engine. Such is the way of open source development.

But anyone who is actually serious about their ideas needs to consider honestly a few points first:

1) Is my idea really better, more interesting and potentially more popular?
2) Do I really have the motivation to put many hundreds of hours into implementing it?
3) Do I have or will I recruit people with the necessary skills to create this new mod (and its website)?

If you can't give yourself a clear and sure yes to all three of those questions then you should just accept this game for what it currently is and not worry about it.

Also subjectivity could be especially dangerous when asking yourself question #1. Many have complained that the current storyline is quite cliche and unrealistic. And this is true. But so is the basic premise of an alien invasion. It's literally a ~100 year old (heavily exploited) concept and has like number of realism issues that you have to account for and explain. So be extra critical of whether or not your alien invasion concept is truly an improvement. From what I have seen, most are not.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 12:27:49 am »
3) Do I have or will I recruit people with the necessary skills to create this new mod (and its website)?

We do have a user modifications forum that anyone is welcome to use to discuss, coordinate and share any modifications.

But sorry we have completely hijacked your thread now.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Brainstorm session: *ALTERNATE* Storylines (framework/synopsis)
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 06:14:05 pm »
The only thing needed to create a "new" campaign is to copy/edit all the text files.

the thought of making a alternate campaign has crossed my mind, but ATM I'm too swamped with work and other modding projects.
However, if I were to do it, I'd re-do the alies..their motives, the virus and stuff like htat would be compeltely different, as I find the current storyline utterly unapealing to me.

I'd also make alien weapons and human versions of the same weapons. why? Because weapons desigedn for non-human use would be difficult to use and, mantain  - if for nothing else than because of sheer ergonomics (they were not designed for human hands).
So human variants would be more accurate, but weaker and more primitive.