UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: sitters on December 11, 2008, 06:03:55 pm
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unfortunelty I Cant use the model of Winter, C4D refuse to relax the UV and gives an error.
Also the lightning was not OK.
Easier to make an new model, then searching what the problem is.
I make an new model similar to the air-thing but with fuel tanks.
If you like the model I texture it, but give me feedback what color you like the craft have,
gray, light-blue ......
Willem
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If that ramp underneath is the width of a soldier, then I'm afraid this model is much too wide. It won't fit on the dropship tile (the dropship tile is 16 soldier widths wide and 24 long).
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If that ramp underneath is the width of a soldier, then I'm afraid this model is much too wide. It won't fit on the dropship tile (the dropship tile is 16 soldier widths wide and 24 long).
No Problem, this are the proportions 16 soldiers X 24 soldiers, it still can fly.
I can also place the engines outside the airframe, then the cargo hall is bigger.
Willem
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And one make for fun. :)
willem
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I like the last model! Maybe wings could fold along that pylons when landed so that it wont occupy too much space on maps?
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Yeah, I think the second model is awesome, but the first model is nice as well.
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Reminds me of the BSG Viper....
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Looks realy good, but doesn't it have to be able to hower and start/land vertically to be able to operate as a dropship?
That thing looks like it needs a runway.
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I quite like both models! I think the top one (plane2.jpg) is best as the Hyperion, though we may be able to use the other one for something else (Starchaser interceptor maybe?). The only change necessary is on the engines, it needs adjustable outboard engine nozzles like the Harrier Jump Jet to show STOL capability.
Regards,
Winter
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Maybe a lift-fan, like in F-35?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:F-35B_Joint_Strike_Fighter_(thrust_vectoring_nozzle_and_lift_fan).PNG
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I like the last model! Maybe wings could fold along that pylons when landed so that it wont occupy too much space on maps?
I quite like both models! I think the top one (plane2.jpg) is best as the Hyperion, though we may be able to use the other one for something else (Starchaser interceptor maybe?). The only change necessary is on the engines, it needs adjustable outboard engine nozzles like the Harrier Jump Jet to show STOL capability.
Regards,
Winter
Maybe a lift-fan, like in F-35?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:F-35B_Joint_Strike_Fighter_(thrust_vectoring_nozzle_and_lift_fan).PNG
Decided to condense most important 3 responses into one place.
These three together would make a great Idea, maybe a choice between Winter & Zorlen's engine ideas.
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Decided to condense most important 3 responses into one place.
These three together would make a great Idea, maybe a choice between Winter & Zorlen's engine ideas.
Yea agree, I texture the first one, and adapt the second one.
I can make some frames in the model that the wings could fold.
And make some more concept models of airplane's ( can also use them for my website ).
Willem
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OK here some shots.
I have give it an other rotary engine with nozzle and an lift fan at the front ( open close diafragma ),
so the plane can lift vertical.
And make the top wings could fold.
some shots
Willem
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Yeah, that looks like something that could fly rather fast and still carry a bit, while being able to land in tight spaces.
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Looks like something that could glide and go far - very economical and long-ranged.
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Yeah, that looks like something that could fly rather fast and still carry a bit, while being able to land in tight spaces.
Looks like something that could glide and go far - very economical and long-ranged.
In other words, it's awesome.
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I don't know what you like for color.
So I give the first plane a neutral one
Does anybody have logo's for the plane ?
Willem
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I don't know what you like for color.
So I give the first plane a neutral one
Willem
Hi sitters,
Good job on the texture. The colour is pretty nice too, although it seems like it would be better with a lighter, flat grey like the F-22 Raptor. That'd help set it apart from the Saracen more as well. Would you be up for that?
Thanks!
Regards,
Winter
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Hi sitters,
Good job on the texture. The colour is pretty nice too, although it seems like it would be better with a lighter, flat grey like the F-22 Raptor. That'd help set it apart from the Saracen more as well. Would you be up for that?
Thanks!
Regards,
Winter
I also have him in grey.
Willem
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They're both good, I just don't know why I like the neutral better than the grey.
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They're both good, I just don't know why I like the neutral better than the grey.
Yea it's what style you like, this is a totally flat texture.
I put all three textures in the rar file
willem
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The flat one actually looks best to me, mostly because that version is most distinguished from the Saracen. Since both craft are of human design the jet shape is pretty much a given, so any real distinction has to come from the texturing.
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Three textures included, looks what you like.
The link :
http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/plane1.rar
Willem
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Yeah, the flat one is definitely the winner of the lot. Thanks a bunch, sitters! Sorry my model wasn't more helpful, as well.
Regards,
Winter
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I'm slightly confused now.
Am I right that the textured one will be the starchaser and the one with folding wings and vtol will be the hyperion?
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No. The textured model is the Hyperion.
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Before I goon with this texture, can you handle this style ?
Willem
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BTAxis? What do you reckon?
Regards,
Winter
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It looks nice, but if possible I'd like it to incorporate some slightly more UFOish characteristics, such as some green stripes somewhere. This will help bridge the gap between the (still quite human looking) Dragon (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Image:Inter_dragon.jpg) and the rather alien-y Stingray (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Image:Inter_stingray.jpg).
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It looks nice, but if possible I'd like it to incorporate some slightly more UFOish characteristics, such as some green stripes somewhere. This will help bridge the gap between the (still quite human looking) Dragon (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Image:Inter_dragon.jpg) and the rather alien-y Stingray (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Image:Inter_stingray.jpg).
Yeah, I have to agree with that. Anything you can do, sitters?
Regards,
Winter
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Yeah, no problem, I make it more alien.
Willem
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OK, a little bit more alien,
let me know what you think.
Willem
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Hello. In your previous screenshots, maybe, we see it less. Wings look very sharp-edged in the middle. No?
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Nice, the only thing I don't like on it is the green circle on the spine. The rest is top notch.
Regards,
Winter
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I have nothing to add to that.
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It realy does look great, but I still think it odd, that now the interceptor got the VTOL Engines but the dropship didn't (;
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I think this is better.
Do you like to have two models, one with folding wings and without, or frames in one model
for folding his wings ?
@duke2112 : I don't write the game, but during a war the engines and weapons can evolve.
@ bayo it's not so sharp, you can better see it at the picture below.
Willem
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As always, your work is really good, sitters. :)
I just want to add a couple little nitpicks - these are my own opinion, not the team's.
1st: Wings on the Hyperion. To me, it seems like their center of lift is too far back for the kind of load the transport can carry. The delta-wing is similar to fighters like the Mirage (http://www.vectorsite.net/avmir2k_1.jpg), but the main difference is how the weight is distributed in the fuselage. I just get the sense that the center of gravity for the Hyperion is located farther forward than the Mirage, in comparison, and this means that it just wouldn't fly. A fix might be to make the wing blend in to the fuselage, kind of like the F-16.
2nd: Cockpits. On both your craft, the canopies seem to be just 'bumps' on top of the fuselage, almost like an afterthought. (The Saracen has this problem, too.) I can't imagine pilots sitting in the cockpit even being able to see below the horizon in level flight, which makes landing especially difficult.
-The counter to this is that helmet-mounted displays combined with TV or IR cameras would let the pilot see 'through' the cockpit and fuselage no matter where he looks. (I think that's what they're trying to do with the F-35).
These are both modeling nitpicks, too, which makes them come at the worst time because you've already textured the two things.
Speaking of textures: Another visual clue to help make something feel human is to put labels and such in a couple places. Things like "BEWARE ENGINE BLAST" and "NOT A STEP", or markings for the fuel access, registration numbers, etc. We don't have to be able to read any of the words. The cargo access is a great place for these.
I also think that the Hyperion still needs some bump mapping. The lighter grey colour helps distinguish it from the Saracen, but it still needs those details to feel alive. I suggest keeping the lighter paint scheme but bringing back a lot of the panelling. Tone back the panels from the previous one a little bit, though - it felt to me like it had too many squares on the wings and on the nose. Keep the grooves for the flaps and rudders, as well as a a trapezoidal shape or two following the wings. The large panels on the main fuselage are fine.
The occasional greeble helps, too. (There are things like pitot tubes, doors for the fuel tanks, navigation lights (when off), EW sensors, and dozens of things I don't even know of. )
These are all just my own suggestions, though, so take them with as much salt as you want.
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1st:
snip
(I think that's what they're trying to do with the F-35).
Sigh.
Speaking of textures: Another visual clue to help make something feel human is to put labels and such in a couple places. Things like "BEWARE ENGINE BLAST" and "NOT A STEP", or markings for the fuel access, registration numbers, etc. We don't have to be able to read any of the words. The cargo access is a great place for these.
That's not a good idea. We want all the text in the game to be translateable, so we shouldn't put any text into images.
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1st: Wings on the Hyperion. To me, it seems like their center of lift is too far back for the kind of load the transport can carry.
Not when you consider much of the weight will be at the back (like all the fuel in the wings!).
Regards,
Winter
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Except it's running on antimatter, like all alien propulsion craft.
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Sigh.
That was justification for leaving it as it is, but aesthetically I think the cockpits would look a lot better if the canopies followed the design rules of modern aircraft: pilots having a good field of view, and following the area rule. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule)
That's not a good idea. We want all the text in the game to be translateable, so we shouldn't put any text into images.
I don't think it matters which language it's in, if any. If the text is clear enough to be read, then the best bets are either English (because it's a standard for aviation) or the language of the craft's source country, (Spanish, French, Russian, Chinese, etc.), purely for backstory reasons. The actual content of the labels don't matter, just the fact that they can be seen.
Symbols and colours can be used, too, and those are universal.
Not when you consider much of the weight will be at the back (like all the fuel in the wings!).
I forgot about the weight of fuel, but fuel shouldn't be required in order to maintain stable flight because it gets used up. The engine is probably the heaviest component in the airframe, and that must be what skews the COG back.
I'm also comparing it to something like a Dassault Mirage, which is just a fighter and doesn't have to lug around a squad of soldiers. (But I admit my eye looks at the Mirage and wonders why that doesn't lawn-dart when it flies.)
I mean the Hyperion - the delta winged transport/fighter. That's not antimatter-powered.
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It reminds me of the BSG Viper, but that's not a bad thing.
I could totally see myself cruising the galaxy in that thing. 8)
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I don't think it matters which language it's in, if any. If the text is clear enough to be read, then the best bets are either English (because it's a standard for aviation) or the language of the craft's source country, (Spanish, French, Russian, Chinese, etc.), purely for backstory reasons. The actual content of the labels don't matter, just the fact that they can be seen.
Symbols and colours can be used, too, and those are universal.
mattn is very adamant about the translation issue, though. Symbols would work fine, but no text.
I mean the Hyperion - the delta winged transport/fighter. That's not antimatter-powered.
Okay. My mistake, sorry.
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What about symbol-looking things that just happen to correspond to characters in some language or another? ;)
Joking aside, while I think that a translation exception should be made for some kinds of artwork (such as detailing), you guys are the core team. I'm not. :)
How does that apply to things like numbering? For example, on my fuel tank there's a label that reads "PFL-880B" but it's too small to make out clearly. (On the other side reads "This is a bunch of text that you should not be able to read")
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Adding detail is no problem for me, it is just a new painting layer. ;)
But the point is how it's fitting in the game ?
I have made beautiful models for an other game, and it looks like shit in the game
because it dint fit in the environment of the game.
When you place an highly detailed model in an less detailed environment it looks not good.
I think best way is to evaluate the model in the game and then looks what the best changes are for it.
The models, brush prefabs and textures must have a good blend, especially when the engine is ready for normal mapping with textures and models.
And for textures, make a real normal map and don't use the nvidia plug in for converting from texture
to normal, because it looks like shit in the game ( first paint a high map and convert this one ).
And in the case of very big models, we have just one material in MD2.
and when you rescale the texture for more easy distribution, also detail getting lost.
That's why some people makes rivets like golf balls on the skin of an airplane, that also don't look good.
I say evaluate the model in the game and when you like more detail, say it and I make it.
Willem
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a little off-topic - but can you describe how you do your normalmaps? i'm currently creating normalmaps for some textures in base/textures. i create a highmap first, too - but maybe you have a faster way to handle it or to get a roughly working highmap which only needs minor tweaking?
in general i grayscale and flatten the colors until i'm stock at 4 or 5 colors (depends on the image and the highlevels) - after that is done i repaint the shapes to make the sharp and create the normalmap (where i encode the height in the alpha channel - due to parallax mapping)
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mattn is very adamant about the translation issue, though. Symbols would work fine, but no text.
As someone who always puts warning labels on his fighters, let me tell you that you won't be able to read the text even at 1024x1024 texture, let alone at 512x512, yet you know what it means. Here's some examples:
(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9383/htlclay3sd8.th.jpg) (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=htlclay3sd8.jpg)
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/542/htlclay2vu4.jpg <--- same bomber, without shine and normal maps
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/6159/valkmk2ke0.th.jpg) (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=valkmk2ke0.jpg) <-- look above he engine
As for how to create normal maps - there are several methods. One is to make it manually by making 3 layers (R,G,B). I don't reccomend it, it's tedous.
another method is to use NVidias DDS plugin for photoshop to generate it from a heightmap.
Or you can use CrazyBump with a pre-made heightmap.
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a little off-topic - but can you describe how you do your normalmaps? i'm currently creating normalmaps for some textures in base/textures. i create a highmap first, too - but maybe you have a faster way to handle it or to get a roughly working highmap which only needs minor tweaking?
in general i grayscale and flatten the colors until i'm stock at 4 or 5 colors (depends on the image and the highlevels) - after that is done i repaint the shapes to make the sharp and create the normalmap (where i encode the height in the alpha channel - due to parallax mapping)
The problem when you make gray scale from an normal texture then you dont have a real highmap, black can also being high, and white can be low.
When I want to have a nice texture for a door or somethings else, i do the same as doing in the
game industry, I model the texture and then render the normal and diffuse map and speculair from it.
but thats a lot of work, but the result is very good ( see example some testing ).
(http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/render7.jpg)
For models I paint the high-map same as the diffuse map, and then render it to an normal map.
Also what I do is making an hi poly model and bake the normal map from that, and use it on my
low poly model.
But maybe the best way for direct conversion from a texture, you can use crazybump, this program is free to download and gives is most cases good result, you can convert the texture to bump, normal, specular and displacement
Willem
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As someone who always puts warning labels on his fighters, let me tell you that you won't be able to read the text even at 1024x1024 texture, let alone at 512x512, yet you know what it means. Here's some examples:
(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9383/htlclay3sd8.th.jpg) (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=htlclay3sd8.jpg)
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/542/htlclay2vu4.jpg <--- same bomber, without shine and normal maps
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/6159/valkmk2ke0.th.jpg) (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=valkmk2ke0.jpg) <-- look above he engin
Nice models. :)
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As someone who always puts warning labels on his fighters, let me tell you that you won't be able to read the text even at 1024x1024 texture, let alone at 512x512, yet you know what it means. Here's some examples:
Yeah, if the text isn't distinguishable, then that's perfectly fine, because then you don't have to translate it.
Looking good, by the way, especially the first one.
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i see willem,
i think i'll come back to you when i do some normalmaps again
btw. what about this texture? did you create it yourself? what is the license? can we use it ? ;)
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Except it's running on antimatter, like all alien propulsion craft.
The Hyperion isn't, never was supposed to be. It's an early game pre-antimatter craft.
Regards,
Winter
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i see willem,
i think i'll come back to you when i do some normalmaps again
btw. what about this texture? did you create it yourself? what is the license? can we use it ? ;)
Yea I make it myself, and it's just as all my stuff (GPL).
I can make more textures, if you like, but must know the theme.
I programming all day for my profession, and graphic stuff is a nice break.
Willem
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The Hyperion isn't, never was supposed to be. It's an early game pre-antimatter craft.
I know, I just thought we were talking about the Starchaser, is all.
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Yea I make it myself, and it's just as all my stuff (GPL).
I can make more textures, if you like, but must know the theme.
I programming all day for my profession, and graphic stuff is a nice break.
cool - i would be nice if you could re-render this texture in a higher res version.
we also still need a lot of replacements for the textures shown here - they are not gpled - and thus we have to completely recreate them:
http://phidev.org/~dino/ufo/html/textures/696b031073e74bf2cb98e5ef201d4aa3.html
it would be nice if you could do some of them. (with normalmaps please ;) )
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cool - i would be nice if you could re-render this texture in a higher res version.
we also still need a lot of replacements for the textures shown here - they are not gpled - and thus we have to completely recreate them:
http://phidev.org/~dino/ufo/html/textures/696b031073e74bf2cb98e5ef201d4aa3.html
it would be nice if you could do some of them. (with normalmaps please ;) )
This textures are also on my website 1024X1024
http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/textures1.html
When I start with the textures I open an other topic.
Willem
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Remind me, were you also still going to try your hand at the Raptor dropship? Not trying to push it on you, just do what you want to do.
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A good way to do a heigtmap for normal map generation, epsecially for paneling, is the following:
Make a new layer over the texture. Paint over the indented parts, like gutters and holes with dark blue.
Make another layer. Paint over raised parts with RED. you can use various shades for different depth.
Add another layer below these two that is grey.
Convert to greyscale.
Feed the heightmap into CrazyBump ;)
I get great results this way.
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OK ,
Here how the final version is going to look, if you like it i finisch all the stuff.
I add some detail, but not to much.
Willem
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As far as I'm concerned, no further work is needed. Excellent job.
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OK here the link,
Two models one with the wings folded and one without.
maps : color,baked,bump,normal
http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/chaiser.rar
Willem
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Thank you sitters, we have committed your model to trunk.
Can you also create a low-poly version for use on the geoscape? It should be a lot smaller than the normal model. You can use our other geoscape models for reference.
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thanks willem, the model is really cool.
i would also beg you to rescale it a little bit - see the attached screenshot
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thanks willem, the model is really cool.
i would also beg you to rescale it a little bit - see the attached screenshot
Please always give me the units it must be, width and high.
C4D works in meters, and a human model is by me 58 meter, so one unit for you is 32 meter for me.
I don't play the game, so i don't know how big an model must be.
Willem
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Here how the final version is going to look, if you like it i finisch all the stuff.
I add some detail, but not to much.
Holy Hell, that looks awesome.
Pardon me, but that picture just took me by such surprise that I didn't have anything else to say.
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Thank you sitters, we have committed your model to trunk.
Can you also create a low-poly version for use on the geoscape? It should be a lot smaller than the normal model. You can use our other geoscape models for reference.
Yea I make a low poly version, can you give me the scale of the original ( mattn ask for rescaling ) and for the geoscape ?
I can finish it, and goon with the next.
Willem
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sorry, i can't tell you anything about it :(
i always import an existing md2 file and scale the other appropriately. if you could provide a low poly version (very low poly) i can scale them myself if you e.g. can't import md2 files, but only export them.
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you know the size of a human, make the cockpit big enough that one fits inside.
The Dragon is 22m the saracen 27m So somethin around 800 units (25m) should be about right.
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Please don't make it wider than the Saracen, though, or we'll have issues with the hangars.
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hmm, the saracen is only 10m, the dragon 12m though.
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Even with folded wings?
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OK, here I have an low poly version 387 triangles, cant make it smaller.
Same UV map, but also include the texture.
http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/STARCHAISER_SMALL.rar
For scaling you best download the free program "Misfit model 3D" you can easy scale md2 formats
with this program.
I can only export MD2 from C4D, then I have a lot of work to do all the models again
( with landing gear, without, folded and not folded ).
Willem
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thanks - i will rescale them
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Other aircraft
Just an aircraft that can fly pure on engine power ( 5 antimatter engines ), so don't have wings.
It also have a small pod that can be dropped from the middle.
There is no description for the raptor so I make some models.
If you like some changes, like to hear it.
If you don't like it at all, it go's to the trashcan.
(http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/craft.jpg)
Willem
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It looks interesting, but I think it's too big. Remember that the Raptor must be able to fit on the dropship tile, same as the other dropships, and it needs to cast a shadow too. While we could expand the dropship tile if absolutely necessary, we'd have to adjust a lot of maps for that, so I'd like to attempt fitting the Raptor on the current tile first. Remember, the current tile is 24x16 humans big (512 x 768 map units, that's 16384 by 24576 meters for you). You have as much space in the z direction as you want, though.
I like the idea of the Raptor not having wings, so hold that thought. Furthermore, it should be a single craft (no separating pods) that holds 10 humans and 1 UGV. The Raptor doubles as an interceptor, so it's armed.
It may be a tough job. Please just try to get a shape that fits the description above, and try not to splurge in the X and Y directions (but use as much space as you think you have to in order to make it look good). If it turns out it's still too big after that, we'll just adjust the maps to fit it, I guess.
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Other aircraft
Just an aircraft that can fly pure on engine power ( 5 antimatter engines ), so don't have wings.
It also have a small pod that can be dropped from the middle.
There is no description for the raptor so I make some models.
If you like some changes, like to hear it.
If you don't like it at all, it go's to the trashcan.
(http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/craft.jpg)
Willem
I'll be honest, I'm not too keen on this one. The shape just seems like random bits of geometry rather than a functioning air- or space-craft.
Lack of wings is good -- the Raptor is supposed to be nearly space-capable. One idea is to simply mount large, rotatable engine pods on the sides in the middle of the craft rather than putting engines in the back. The pods could have multiple antimatter engines per pod, 2 or even 3 in one rotatable aerodynamic housing.
Is that anything you can work with, sitters, or do you need more info? Thanks!
Regards,
Winter
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Hmm you can be space capable while having wings, too (; (like the Stingray)
I made a little concept earlier today, I wanted it to resemple it's name, like the Dragon and Stingray.
So It's a sleek design with a big hardpoint under the nose (the 'mouth') and two on the bottom fins, which are suppose to be stabilisers as well as the landing gear (the 'claws on the feet')
And for a change it doesn't have doors, but instead lowers the entire cargo bay.
I also gave it a full wing body to resemble the stingray. Oh and foldable wings to fit it's space.
The mini engines on the front are for vtol.
Hope it gives you and idea.
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Currently, I like DuKe's model better. It just seems right for some reason.
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Hmm you can be space capable while having wings, too (; (like the Stingray)
I made a little concept earlier today, I wanted it to resemple it's name, like the Dragon and Stingray.
So It's a sleek design with a big hardpoint under the nose (the 'mouth') and two on the bottom fins, which are suppose to be stabilisers as well as the landing gear (the 'claws on the feet')
And for a change it doesn't have doors, but instead lowers the entire cargo bay.
I also gave it a full wing body to resemble the stingray. Oh and foldable wings to fit it's space.
The mini engines on the front are for vtol.
Hope it gives you and idea.
Yea , I also like this very much.
I make an model of this one, then we see if it fits in.
if not, i change it or make an other.
Willem
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Hmm you can be space capable while having wings, too (; (like the Stingray)
I made a little concept earlier today, I wanted it to resemple it's name, like the Dragon and Stingray.
So It's a sleek design with a big hardpoint under the nose (the 'mouth') and two on the bottom fins, which are suppose to be stabilisers as well as the landing gear (the 'claws on the feet')
And for a change it doesn't have doors, but instead lowers the entire cargo bay.
I also gave it a full wing body to resemble the stingray. Oh and foldable wings to fit it's space.
The mini engines on the front are for vtol.
Hope it gives you and idea.
It's not a bad design but I do have one major quibble: the bendy neck is a bad idea. It puts unnecessary stresses on the airframe and builds weaknesses into it. I reckon it'll actually look more solid, less strange and Firefly-like that way.
Regards,
Winter
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Funnily enough, I was toying with a similar design to that - sort of Firefly-esque, but smaller, and also with a more curved and organic body like the Stingray.
Sitters' other antimatter-powered aircraft, the Dragon and Starchaser, have both had more angular bodies than the Stingray. I think a rounded body for the Raptor would work very well and help it feel like it and the Stingray share development and represent the epitome of Phalanx' research into UFO technologies. I think that also calls for alien-material blue in the textures, as well as those depressions/extrusions and green glowies.\
I do have some additional irks with the design, in addition to what Winter says. (Of course, I hasten to add, he's the art lead and not me. ;) )\
Having the entire cargo area drop down has a number of disadvantages for a combat transport. Engineering-wise, it puts a considerable amount of complexity into the design. The hoisting mechanism, whether it be fluid or electrically powered, concentrates a lot of the stresses into a few vulnerable points. In addition to the extra fragility, it adds weight, and while extra mass is fatal for any spacecraft, it is ironically an even stronger concern for human-built antimatter powered spacecraft. Extra weight translates to an increase in fuel consumption, and antimatter is too valuable to waste needlessly.
There are a few combat-related reasons why an elevating platform is a poorer choice than simple doors or ramps. It takes longer to deploy and retract than a simple door. It physically moves the entire squad, potentially causing disorientation in the vital time of deployment to a hostile LZ. It also provides much less cover - the only cover is the two fins to the side, leaving the entire squad vulnerable to fire. Not only that, but it exposes the lower parts of their bodies first, and only when the entire soldier is exposed to fire does he get a chance to see the battlefield. He must also wait for the platform to be lowered far enough that he can jump out, because the craft can not fly with the cargo bay open lest the winds sweep across the entire crew, and the stresses of maneuvering will be focused on the hinges and supports.
Of course, that's nitpicking at this stage - the general shape and ideas of the ship I like very much. I'm just, well, nitpicky. :) A lowering platform is a cool idea, but I don't think it's practical in the least for a combat transport. (Things become a different matter if it's more of a civilian or tactical transport - in that case, the loading advantages of a lowering platform outweigh the disadvantages I've given above.)
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OK, an other shape, it's just a basic shape, no weapons and other attributes.
I make them when the basic shape is OK.
(http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/raptor.jpg)
Willem
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Two suggestions:
1. Lose the little wings at the back, or at least angle them downwards so they're not in the way of the antimatter exhaust.
2. Widen the front to give a better impression of cargo space.
Thanks!
Regards,
Winter
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It looks too human to my taste - any chance of making it a little more UFO-like?
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hmm, i think a lot of the alien feel comes out of the texture, although a kinf of fluent shape is probably helpfull.
And Psawhn it's nice to know there is someone as nitpicky as I am (;
I took the elevator, because the ugv pods use them, too. I actually had a ramp and the ele only for the internal ugv, but then I thought this was more practical.
Well an ambush could be avoided by a simple plate around as cover and it could also be dropped during vtol. But as you said moot point.
I don't get your firefly reference though, I'm pretty sure you two don't mean the bug and I had the profile of a raptor in mind.
I also figured the alien materials won't care much about the stress.
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OK, back wings removed and more alien
(http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/raptor1.jpg)
willem
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I don't get your firefly reference though, I'm pretty sure you two don't mean the bug and I had the profile of a raptor in mind.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/serenity-7.jpg
THAT's a Firefly.
I actually quite like this shape for the Raptor, it feels like sort of a cross between the more human ships and the Stingray. Great work, sitters! Only one tiny request this time -- could you shorten the ship slightly between the engine pods and the back of the wings? I think that'll help it look a little bit more balanced.
When that's done I reckon we can move on to the texturing phase.
Regards,
Winter
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yea the balance is better this way.
I UV and textured it.
(http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/raptor2.jpg)
Willem
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How big is it compared to the Herakles caryall?
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how about shortening the heck even more and making the fuselage slightly wider?
Then it would fit in sideways like the stingray.
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Not that the Stingray goes in the same hangar.
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No, but it is also much wider then it is long. As opposed to the other craft who are longer then wide.
And as I recall the dropship tile is not quadratic either.
Apropos hangars, do you want to make another one tile craft for the late game, or is the stiletto going to remain the only one?
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Once the larger bases are done, all interceptors will go in rectangular hangars and all dropships will go in square ones.
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every body a Happy new-year. :)
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Before I goon, I must know if you like this style for the raptor.
Willem
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I think it's fine. The green areas leave no doubt that it uses alien tech, and the shape is sufficiently set apart from the other craft to render big changes in the color scheme unnecessary.
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Link to the raptor :
There is also a very low poly version for the GS.
http://www.md2.sitters-electronics.nl/models/raptor.rar
willem
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One final request, sitters. Can you resize the model (not the geoscape one) to be twice as large in every dimension? I did some comparing around in radiant, and I believe that's the perfect size for it.
Mattn took care of it.
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Could you show a glimpse of what it would look like with a main base color closer to that of the Stingray?
I'm curious to see how a closer visual similarity to the Stingray would look.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/Psawhn/th_stingray_texture_base.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/Psawhn/stingray_texture_base.jpg)
Another idea I have is to do something with the vertical stabilizers. How would the model look if they're moved to the engines, or even eliminated altogether? (Design changes pending BTAxis' or Winter's Veto. ;) )
Of course if it's too much trouble (or you're away on vacation) don't worry about it. :)
Other than that, it's great work as usual!
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You could always have a play about with the source files, Psawhn, and show us the results. I'm not sure about the vertical stabilisers -- I'd have to see a render of the whole craft with changes applied to make a decision.
Regards,
Ryan
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I hadn't thought about that, actually. D'oh.
Attached is a very quick and dirty recolouring job. I actually imported the two layers from my source stingray file. I also removed the rudders completely, but I didn't fix their shadows on the texture.
There's a subtle change in brightness between the photos, which is the only difference.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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That actually looks really awesome, and gives more of an impression of alien materials being used for the skin. I like it!
Regards,
Winter
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I like the black one too, though.
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Here are my source colour textures (4096^2 in dimension) and the modified texture. The modification was a very fast job - sitters can probably integrate the textures/colours better using whatever design process he uses, whereas I had to somehow modified the resultant .bmp file.
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~djetowns/public_html/misc_files/UFO_AI/stingray_base_hires.png
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~djetowns/public_html/misc_files/UFO_AI/stingray_mottled_hires.png
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~djetowns/public_html/misc_files/UFO_AI/raptor-modified.png
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The first link seems to not work. The second seems to point to a completely white image.
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I don't know what happened to the first link, but I fixed it.
The second link always worked. It is a pure white texture but with alpha applied - it should show up properly if imported. (I forgot that the info was in the alpha channel.)