Accuracy, Sniping and tactics.

[EdenScent]

While I really like 2.3 there are some major game play problems, at least in my opinion that have essentially removed many tactical options.

The problem is that on every single map the most effective way to kill the enemies is to just close range with a shotgun or flamethrower or some other high powered weapon. So I use the exact same tactic on every map, my long range shooter is not a sniper because they always miss at any useful ranges, its the rocket launcher, and for medium range its the grenade launcher

On the previous versions I could engage in some interesting long range battles that required more thought in placing your troops and smoke grenades were really useful tool.

So my proposal.

Accuracy

I think for the assault rifle and sniper, the single aimed shot needs to be more accurate. I mean they say sniper rifles from the American civil war could kill someone at 800 yards...

For anyone who's played ufo:aftershock I thought the sniper rifle accuracy in that was good. (don't get me wrong though I'm not plugging that game or anything)

I'm not entirely sure how the accuracy is calculated except that its a spread. maybe the spread on the target could be something like:

(range-closerange*skill/100)*k - skill*i             (where i and k are some constants, maybe some random numbers could be used aswell)

so that at certain ranges based on the skill level you're guaranteed a hit and as you get further out it becomes less likely, because there isn't really a maximum range for a modern sniper rifle, as long as it has LOS then it should have some probability of hitting it. I think for the ranges on most maps the effect of gravity and air resistance would be negligible.

I don't think this would make the game easy but open up more game play options.

[Charlie]

Agreed, aimed sniper shots should hit the target from far away far more often than not, and that is not the case in today's head.

[H-Hour]

Are you talking about 2.3 or a later version? From your description of the rocket launcher as the most effective long-range weapon, I'd guess you're playing 2.3 or 2.4. If so, 2.5-dev has undergone substantial changes to its weaponry.

[Charlie]

I'm talking about "today's head", today being yesterday. ;] My sniper-skilled soldiers with sniper rifles miss more often than hit at long range, and with that bolt gun in aimed mode (which the game reports requires sniper skill) they are completely useless even at close range.

[krilain]

Agreed, aimed sniper shots should hit the target from far away far more often than not, and that is not the case in today's head.

It depends also of the initial competence of your soldier. A mediocre player at sniping and mind, should miss really often even if at good position. And i think that s the case in the recent version. I play 2.4.

[Charlie]

Having advanced in the game I still think sniping should be far more accurate than it is, if realism is what you're going for.

[H-Hour]

A lot has been said about this and the weapon balance in the past and, in your defense, it's spread across a lot of threads so its not easy to find. But in short: the battlescape represents a dramatically scaled-down version of any real battlefield. Much of the rebalancing going on in 2.5 is an attempt to bring more tactical mechanics into the game, but this will not correspond to any reasonable sense of "realism" in a world where most assault rifles are accurate out to 300 metres (30x the distance of most of our maps).

[Triaxx2]

2.5's rebalance really helped. I know that if I try a 60% shot in 2.4, I'd miss three out of four times. In 2.5, that same shot is going to hit three out of four.

[krilain]

Maybe another way to satisfy people is to improve the hit rate when player at good position and filling best conditions of sniping (crouching..etc) but to lower in general the sniping damage rate, at least for strong aliens, spiders (who have not really a visible head..etc.). One other thing could be to introduce an action named "find and aim alien's head" that would cost a lot of TUs. Or we could also ask for a reload at each turn (one turn on two). It is realistic according to the fact that it is the rule in UrbanTerror FPS with a sniper riffle named SR-8, lethal but slow, and that require reloading often.   

[Triaxx2]

Trouble is that as long as you penetrate the armor on the spider, it's going to do all sorts of nasty things to the unprotected internals.

DO NOT CHANGE THE RELOAD RATE. It's impossible to fire and reload on the same turn as it is. That would mean that like the Rocket Launcher the sniper rifle would go from being a situationally useful weapon, (Due to the high fire cost triggering reaction fire) to being a shoot once, drop it weapon.

[Sarin]

Maybe another way to satisfy people is to improve the hit rate when player at good position and filling best conditions of sniping (crouching..etc) but to lower in general the sniping damage rate, at least for strong aliens, spiders (who have not really a visible head..etc.). One other thing could be to introduce an action named "find and aim alien's head" that would cost a lot of TUs. Or we could also ask for a reload at each turn (one turn on two). It is realistic according to the fact that it is the rule in UrbanTerror FPS with a sniper riffle named SR-8, lethal but slow, and that require reloading often.

FPS isn't a good source for realism.

What we have in game is semi-automatic urban sniper rifle, not a classical "pop him over a kilometer" sniper. You have to consider what is going on in game. What we have there is more a marksman role, providing a mobile, accurate fire over longer distances than assault rifles. For that, current SR works fine, although its description is a bit odd, as 20mm is FAR too huge caliber. It should be .338 Lapua, or perhaps even uprated version of 7.62x51 NATO (don't forget that by game "lore", they are using a new high-velocity powder).

In any case...what we have is good I think. It's not 100% reliable at long range, and that is okay as it would make a game too dull.

And BTW...in reality, snipers don't aim for the head. A torso shot from modern sniper rifle is as lethal as headshot and provides larger target.

[Triaxx2]

Depends on the sniper and situation. I've heard of snipers shooting for the torso because of the easier target, but others shooting for the Fatal-T to ensure an instant kill. Of course, since aliens might not necessarily have that, it might be useless.

20mm is, but the 12.7mm round isn't. Police snipers use them to shoot through things like bank bulletproof glass, so there's some precedent.

[Sarin]

Main thing is that both 20mm and 12.7mm are large enough to carry a payload. I would love to see what would Raufoss Mk.211 round do with armored Ortnok, but I am sure it won't be pleasant...or surviable. Also, those things kick hard...even with advanced technology you won't be able to crouch, aim fire and hit with a .50 caliber rifle in those like 10 secs that are one round, even if you could handle a .50 without bracing it on bipod.

.338 is probably the best bet, it's an effective antipersonnel ammo, and certainly got enough power, at least on close ranges, to punch through a wall and hit target behind it, but it lacks effective payload. Almost exactly what's in game.

[krilain]

Trouble is that as long as you penetrate the armor on the spider, it's going to do all sorts of nasty things to the unprotected internals.

DO NOT CHANGE THE RELOAD RATE. It's impossible to fire and reload on the same turn as it is. That would mean that like the Rocket Launcher the sniper rifle would go from being a situationally useful weapon, (Due to the high fire cost triggering reaction fire) to being a shoot once, drop it weapon.

My point was not to reduce the power of the sniper riffle today provided. But I was thinking about making it less missing in the future (when conventional usage is done). But it would possibly increase his usage if nothing comes in balance, for instance (like rocket launcher it's true) a more frequent need to reload. But only if the developpers accept to give the sniper his long range absolute vocation.

To say truth I find the sniper we have very good, and well enough regarding the fact if it was strong too much I wouldn't research laser weapons or further things, and would keep only sniping.

Wathever I would like to salute here 2 things that in fact decide the gameplay more than the weapon strenght :
1 - the need to save civilians because, you can always survive yourself hiding and sniping but aliens will run after civilians and you will lose the game.
2 - the fact that you can't except to use sniper riffle at short range without the high risk you'll be shot by reaction fire before you just take the time to aim I experimented that often enought and i admit that's justice .

FPS isn't a good source for realism.
(...)
And BTW...in reality, snipers don't aim for the head. A torso shot from modern sniper rifle is as lethal as headshot and provides larger target.

Of course for human, I think it must be lethal enough to hit torso. But facing aliens, witch body seems so plastic or glue, the only thing you should aim should be the nervous center, so the head. Add to that consideration the need to make decisive usage of TUs because if you dont kill in one turn, you give aliens the chance to turn the next round to their advantage.