Reaction Fire in 2.3 Build 28632

[andyr2005]

Hi,

I come back looking for some information on how this reaction fire works now in the version as compared to 2.2.1.

I have tried a map 10+ times because of what appears to be the extreme lack of the ability of a soldier to react to the movement or shooting on an alien who is in their line of sight.

I have for example, enabled the reaction fire and option, yet I can have aliens walk straight in front of 2-4 soldiers, and not one of them will react with a shot to the alien.

Any information is appreciated.

[geever]

Any information is appreciated.

Use search function of the forum.

-geever

[andyr2005]

Hi,

I have used the search function, but none of the results seem to answer or give more information about the problem.

Also, just tried a mission on the Tropical drug map I think it was. I had a sniper with 22 TU, after going around a corner, he spotted an alien, yet it would not allow any shot, no reaction shot enabled and no reservation of TU's.

[geever]

I have used the search function, but none of the results seem to answer or give more information about the problem.

http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4431.msg33886#msg33886
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4439.msg34068#msg34068

-geever

[andyr2005]

Hi @ geever,

I have already read those 2 threads regarding it, but as I said earlier it doesn't help with the problem or give any further explanation or a correct order of setting RF functionality.

Normally what I do is choose for example on the Assault Rifle, 3 -Burst in the menu using the Circle selector. Then I activate the reaction fire to single shot rf, the one below the image of the gun.

I am doing this in the correct order?

As I still have soldiers who just do not even react when an alien stands in the square next to them, which has happened several times now when they are trying a melee attack.

Also, the issue regarding snipers not shooting even when there are enough available TU's.

Thanks for further help.

[Gren]

There seems to be quite a problem with Reaction Fire with this build. 

It seems as soon as you apply Reaction Fire to any of your soldiers, it tends to affect all other commands for that soldier especially if you try to reclaim the TU's by removing RF. Soldiers will not respond to move or fire commands in many cases.

At the moment, I am working through the early missions without using it, but it can be a great handicap without it.

For example a soldier with reaction fire set turns the corner of a building into the LOS of an alien. Apart from reserved TU's, Soldier hasn't enough left to either take cover, or get off a snapshot. He is stranded there until the next turn, when he is killed off by the alien.

[GPS51]

Hey I had this problem until I realized that the aliens didn't have reaction fire on either. So it tends to make it a little more kamikaze/faster.

[Stedevil]

Don't know which revision fixes it but for sure in svn 28860 RF works again. In 287xx something I playyed before it was broken. So update to a newer build.

[Excalibolg]

compared to 2.2 its not that RF is broken in 2.3 its just been dumbed down to the point of uslessness, most of my battles do not involve reaction fire from my units or from the aliens. Basically what happens is that for a reaction fire to occur you require vision of the enemy for the time units needed to fire your designated RF shot.

For example you set your heavy MG on full auto (25 TUs) reaction fire mode. Then an alien walks right around the corner (2 TUs for the 1 step you seen him) fires at you with a pistole (8 TUs) then ducks away around the corner again. Basically you seen the alien for 10 TUs and thats not enough to trigger the requirement of 25TUs for full auto RF. The alien can keep ducking in and out from a corner and no one in your party will get a shot off unless they have really low RF TUs (basically pistole level or snap shots). For this reason you see aliens walk right infront of you, shake his ass, walk past you and your units just stand there doing nothing. So currently for reaction fire to be of any use you basically have to choose the weapon and fire setting with the lowest TU cost.

This was changed due to some one complaining that he gets RFed upon every step by the same alien unit. Although now I dont see Aliens RF at all. This basically kills the reaction fire mechanism and makes it pointless wasting time units in saving for reaction fire for your own units as well. Perhaps a mid way would be for units to fire at any interval between his required RF TU cost and then not be able to fire again untill the next interval, but its all up to the devs

For more info read this thread http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4302.0

[insetto]

This was changed due to some one complaining that he gets RFed upon every step by the same alien unit.
Although now I dont see Aliens RF at all. This basically kills the reaction fire mechanism and makes it pointless wasting time units in saving for reaction fire for your own units as well. Perhaps a mid way would be for units to fire at any interval between his required RF TU cost and then not be able to fire again untill the next interval, but its all up to the devs

Interesting post. I vote for this.

[Stedevil]

compared to 2.2 its not that RF is broken in 2.3 its just been dumbed down to the point of uslessness

That is not true. For quite a while the new way it's implemented was actually broken as well, leading to no reaction fire ever, from any side. I know, because I was the one complaining about it long and loud enough for the devs to realize it was not just the change in behavior 2.2 to 2.3 that made me think it did not work. It actually did not work at all.

PS I also agree that, while the old way was bad, the new way it's intended to work is not 100% optimal either (BTW the new way is not yet fully implemented, and likely wont be before 2.3, unless we users voices change the devs opinion that it really needs to get a proper fix).

A few suggestions I've been thinking about to be better solutions

A) Make 1st RF shot happen after 0,5x "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", 2nd after 1,5 "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", etc...
This would make it possible for both sides to "step out into line of fire + quickly jump back behind cover" but rarely "step out, shoot, jump away".

B) Make RF always take place after a delay of eg >10TU of opponent movement.
This would allow small/medium firearms snapshots & throwing grenades while ducking in and out of cover. This would sort of mimic the real world possibility that one just quickly stick an arm out around a corner and toss a grenade or fire off a round without really stepping out in full view.

[Mattn]

deactivate the cvar g_reaction_fair by adding this to your autoexec.cfg

[razor436]

That is not true. For quite a while the new way it's implemented was actually broken as well, leading to no reaction fire ever, from any side. I know, because I was the one complaining about it long and loud enough for the devs to realize it was not just the change in behavior 2.2 to 2.3 that made me think it did not work. It actually did not work at all.

PS I also agree that, while the old way was bad, the new way it's intended to work is not 100% optimal either (BTW the new way is not yet fully implemented, and likely wont be before 2.3, unless we users voices change the devs opinion that it really needs to get a proper fix).

A few suggestions I've been thinking about to be better solutions

A) Make 1st RF shot happen after 0,5x "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", 2nd after 1,5 "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", etc...
This would make it possible for both sides to "step out into line of fire + quickly jump back behind cover" but rarely "step out, shoot, jump away".

B) Make RF always take place after a delay of eg >10TU of opponent movement.
This would allow small/medium firearms snapshots & throwing grenades while ducking in and out of cover. This would sort of mimic the real world possibility that one just quickly stick an arm out around a corner and toss a grenade or fire off a round without really stepping out in full view.

I completely agree that something should be done to help soldiers make their first reaction fire (RF) shot. As it is now, my snipers are useless, even with snap shot reaction fire, as well as all other high TU weapons. I would suggest going as far as allowing the first RF shot at 0TU (at the first moment enemy walks into line of sight LOS), and half TU cost every subsequent RF after.

[weekendwarriora1c]

It doesn't take any longer for a soldier carrying a machine gun to pull the trigger, whether he intends to let it go immediately, or keep it down until he's out.  Setting up reaction is the equivalent of walking slowly with a weapon already sighted.  Whether it's a pistol, a rifle or a SAW, moving the sights a few inches and firing involves the same effort, and certainly should happen before an alien can run fifteen feet, fire, and run fifteen more feet.  It's not like your soldiers would say, "Aw, shucks, I didn't have enough time for all fifty rounds, so I elected not to fire any of them."

[homunculus]

maybe a special fire mode would be required for burst reaction fire, then.
i mean, an alien puts his (or her) nose round a corner for half a second, and gets a full burst from a machine gun, that doesn't seem to make much sense either.