UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: andyr2005 on February 21, 2010, 09:46:40 pm
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Hi,
I come back looking for some information on how this reaction fire works now in the version as compared to 2.2.1.
I have tried a map 10+ times because of what appears to be the extreme lack of the ability of a soldier to react to the movement or shooting on an alien who is in their line of sight.
I have for example, enabled the reaction fire and option, yet I can have aliens walk straight in front of 2-4 soldiers, and not one of them will react with a shot to the alien.
Any information is appreciated.
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Any information is appreciated.
Use search function of the forum.
-geever
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Hi,
I have used the search function, but none of the results seem to answer or give more information about the problem.
Also, just tried a mission on the Tropical drug map I think it was. I had a sniper with 22 TU, after going around a corner, he spotted an alien, yet it would not allow any shot, no reaction shot enabled and no reservation of TU's.
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I have used the search function, but none of the results seem to answer or give more information about the problem.
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4431.msg33886#msg33886
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4439.msg34068#msg34068
-geever
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Hi @ geever,
I have already read those 2 threads regarding it, but as I said earlier it doesn't help with the problem or give any further explanation or a correct order of setting RF functionality.
Normally what I do is choose for example on the Assault Rifle, 3 -Burst in the menu using the Circle selector. Then I activate the reaction fire to single shot rf, the one below the image of the gun.
I am doing this in the correct order?
As I still have soldiers who just do not even react when an alien stands in the square next to them, which has happened several times now when they are trying a melee attack.
Also, the issue regarding snipers not shooting even when there are enough available TU's.
Thanks for further help.
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There seems to be quite a problem with Reaction Fire with this build. :(
It seems as soon as you apply Reaction Fire to any of your soldiers, it tends to affect all other commands for that soldier especially if you try to reclaim the TU's by removing RF. Soldiers will not respond to move or fire commands in many cases.
At the moment, I am working through the early missions without using it, but it can be a great handicap without it.
For example a soldier with reaction fire set turns the corner of a building into the LOS of an alien. Apart from reserved TU's, Soldier hasn't enough left to either take cover, or get off a snapshot. He is stranded there until the next turn, when he is killed off by the alien.
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Hey I had this problem until I realized that the aliens didn't have reaction fire on either. So it tends to make it a little more kamikaze/faster.
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Don't know which revision fixes it but for sure in svn 28860 RF works again. In 287xx something I playyed before it was broken. So update to a newer build. :)
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compared to 2.2 its not that RF is broken in 2.3 its just been dumbed down to the point of uslessness, most of my battles do not involve reaction fire from my units or from the aliens. Basically what happens is that for a reaction fire to occur you require vision of the enemy for the time units needed to fire your designated RF shot.
For example you set your heavy MG on full auto (25 TUs) reaction fire mode. Then an alien walks right around the corner (2 TUs for the 1 step you seen him) fires at you with a pistole (8 TUs) then ducks away around the corner again. Basically you seen the alien for 10 TUs and thats not enough to trigger the requirement of 25TUs for full auto RF. The alien can keep ducking in and out from a corner and no one in your party will get a shot off unless they have really low RF TUs (basically pistole level or snap shots). For this reason you see aliens walk right infront of you, shake his ass, walk past you and your units just stand there doing nothing. So currently for reaction fire to be of any use you basically have to choose the weapon and fire setting with the lowest TU cost.
This was changed due to some one complaining that he gets RFed upon every step by the same alien unit. Although now I dont see Aliens RF at all. This basically kills the reaction fire mechanism and makes it pointless wasting time units in saving for reaction fire for your own units as well. Perhaps a mid way would be for units to fire at any interval between his required RF TU cost and then not be able to fire again untill the next interval, but its all up to the devs
For more info read this thread http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4302.0 (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4302.0)
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This was changed due to some one complaining that he gets RFed upon every step by the same alien unit.
Although now I dont see Aliens RF at all. This basically kills the reaction fire mechanism and makes it pointless wasting time units in saving for reaction fire for your own units as well. Perhaps a mid way would be for units to fire at any interval between his required RF TU cost and then not be able to fire again untill the next interval, but its all up to the devs
Interesting post. I vote for this.
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compared to 2.2 its not that RF is broken in 2.3 its just been dumbed down to the point of uslessness
That is not true. For quite a while the new way it's implemented was actually broken as well, leading to no reaction fire ever, from any side. I know, because I was the one complaining about it long and loud enough for the devs to realize it was not just the change in behavior 2.2 to 2.3 that made me think it did not work. It actually did not work at all. ;)
PS I also agree that, while the old way was bad, the new way it's intended to work is not 100% optimal either (BTW the new way is not yet fully implemented, and likely wont be before 2.3, unless we users voices change the devs opinion that it really needs to get a proper fix).
A few suggestions I've been thinking about to be better solutions
A) Make 1st RF shot happen after 0,5x "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", 2nd after 1,5 "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", etc...
This would make it possible for both sides to "step out into line of fire + quickly jump back behind cover" but rarely "step out, shoot, jump away".
B) Make RF always take place after a delay of eg >10TU of opponent movement.
This would allow small/medium firearms snapshots & throwing grenades while ducking in and out of cover. This would sort of mimic the real world possibility that one just quickly stick an arm out around a corner and toss a grenade or fire off a round without really stepping out in full view.
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deactivate the cvar g_reaction_fair by adding this to your autoexec.cfg
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That is not true. For quite a while the new way it's implemented was actually broken as well, leading to no reaction fire ever, from any side. I know, because I was the one complaining about it long and loud enough for the devs to realize it was not just the change in behavior 2.2 to 2.3 that made me think it did not work. It actually did not work at all. ;)
PS I also agree that, while the old way was bad, the new way it's intended to work is not 100% optimal either (BTW the new way is not yet fully implemented, and likely wont be before 2.3, unless we users voices change the devs opinion that it really needs to get a proper fix).
A few suggestions I've been thinking about to be better solutions
A) Make 1st RF shot happen after 0,5x "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", 2nd after 1,5 "TU-cost-of-visible-opponent", etc...
This would make it possible for both sides to "step out into line of fire + quickly jump back behind cover" but rarely "step out, shoot, jump away".
B) Make RF always take place after a delay of eg >10TU of opponent movement.
This would allow small/medium firearms snapshots & throwing grenades while ducking in and out of cover. This would sort of mimic the real world possibility that one just quickly stick an arm out around a corner and toss a grenade or fire off a round without really stepping out in full view.
I completely agree that something should be done to help soldiers make their first reaction fire (RF) shot. As it is now, my snipers are useless, even with snap shot reaction fire, as well as all other high TU weapons. I would suggest going as far as allowing the first RF shot at 0TU (at the first moment enemy walks into line of sight LOS), and half TU cost every subsequent RF after.
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It doesn't take any longer for a soldier carrying a machine gun to pull the trigger, whether he intends to let it go immediately, or keep it down until he's out. Setting up reaction is the equivalent of walking slowly with a weapon already sighted. Whether it's a pistol, a rifle or a SAW, moving the sights a few inches and firing involves the same effort, and certainly should happen before an alien can run fifteen feet, fire, and run fifteen more feet. It's not like your soldiers would say, "Aw, shucks, I didn't have enough time for all fifty rounds, so I elected not to fire any of them."
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maybe a special fire mode would be required for burst reaction fire, then.
i mean, an alien puts his (or her) nose round a corner for half a second, and gets a full burst from a machine gun, that doesn't seem to make much sense either.
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I agree, it would make more sense if automatic fire was spaced through several movement turns. But it should still start firing the moment they make themselves apparent to the soldier.
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It seems to me that there are two different kinds of RF. Aimed and non-aimed. Aimed is where the TUs are spent aiming the gun and only the very last TU involves any actual firing. On those it would make sense for the target to spend that many TUs in the line of sight of the reactor, since it takes that long for him to aim. A sniper isn't going to shoot unless the target is in the crosshairs.
On the other hand are the non-aimed shots. An machine gunner is not going to line his target up perfect, he will just get his gun pointed in the right direction and spray until the target dies. However, if an alien peaks around a corner for 3 TUs, he shouldn't get a full 25 TU burst to the face.
So, here is my proposal. for aimed shots, they need the full TU time to take the shot. For non-aimed like full auto and burst, its a partial shot. For every TU the alien spends in his line of sight, he gets to fire a TU on his gun. Alien spends 6 TU walking into the middle of the street, so the MG gets to fire 6 TU of his 25 TU burst at the alien. Alien steps to next square for 2 TU, and the MG fires his next 2 TU, so his 25 full auto is down to 17 TU left of shooting. You would have to be able to pause the burst mid-fire and to pause every step to let the MG fire, but this way the alien takes an amount of fire equal to what he actually does.
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in the r30111, without any conf-ing, i got reaction fire from both assault rifle and smg once.
never saw sniper reaction fire, though.
maybe the point of it was that it was single shot rf, and consumed less tu?
now, as for burst, if consecutive single shots consumed less tu than the first one, maybe this would be ok?
also, maybe some day the whole shooting system will somehow get a lot of attention.
(i might have a long beard by then, i know)
in this case i think my hopes would be for aiming and recoil time units for all shots, rather than depending on the shot being aimed or non-aimed.
the best wish would be for:
1. clicking with mouse selects the target (like waiting for next click for confirmation).
there would be the default time units for aiming, which can now be adjusted with mouse wheel if needed.
2. second click fires the shot.
the player would be thinking like 'would i need to aim a little bit better', bit like gambling.
as an additional benefit, you wouldn't have many leftover time units at turn end because you could use them for better aiming.
the application for reaction fire would involve counting time units for minimum aiming before the reaction fire shot happens.
and after the shot there would be the recoil tu when the soldier cannot rf again.