General > Discussion
What Alien Invasion needs in order to replace XCOM1 as the best game
Ildamos:
--- Quote ---I maintain that Fistleaf's comment was at best uninformed and undiplomatic
--- End quote ---
Yes it was. Therefore, there is no reason for you to take a break from these forums. Just because there are a lot of people like this (and there ARE a lot of people like this in EVERY forum), doesn't mean you've done a horrible job nor should you quit on this laudable community effort.
Destructavator:
I see a lot of finger-pointing going on here, and honestly I don't think continuing it would really accomplish anything.
I can see how more than one person in this discussion could have handled themselves a little bit better, but I don't think it would be a good idea to continue throwing these matters back and forth like this, what's already been done is done, I think we should try to move past it.
In the interest of moving back toward the original topic, UFO: AI, as has been said, is not a remake of XCOM and doesn't aim to replace it or copy it, that's just not a goal of the project. It's only inspired by XCOM/UFO, but a separate game with different end-goals in mind.
That being said, I don't see too much reason to continue this thread much further.
homunculus:
about the ai, i remember at some point while playing xcom1, i thought about alien behavior that would be based on group movement and some objectives the aliens try to accomplish.
the objectives would be moving from random point 'a' on the tactical map to random point 'b', and then from point 'b' to another random point 'c' for some reason that may be incomprehensible for the player.
i would guess it would be better than having the aliens move completely aimlessly, or like it seems in ufo-ai atm, their movement seems to be determined totally by the opponent's (player's) actions.
and the aliens would be moving in small groups according to the so-called flocking rules.
there's some texts about it in wikipedia, but the best texts i could not find atm with reasonable effort.
but basically there is attraction between the members of the group that depends on distance -- the shorter the distance the stronger the attraction.
to avoid getting too close, there's also a short range repulsion that, at short range, is stronger than the attraction.
now, based on those two rather simple rules the group of aliens would move quite intelligently around obstacles, and with some simple adjustments they would also respond naturally to attractions in the environment.
this kind of algorithms have been used to model movement of groups of animals, and groups of people in a museum, etc.
btw, similar principle is popular when doing automatic graph layout, called 'spring layout'.
as for the game, if a group of aliens is moving with some direction in mind, i think it might create more diverse situations and challenges.
by setting up the attraction rules, you can have things like tamans mostly trying to be in the center of the group and ortnoks in the perimeter, the shevaar doing skirmishes and bloodspiders scouting the area.
and, that would be emergent property of group members acting according to just a few very formal rules.
i would expect this to produce more interesting situations on maps with less open terrain than most ufo-ai maps, though.
as said earlier, i thought of it while playing xcom1, more specifically the terror missions in towns.
--- Quote from: Ildamos on June 24, 2009, 06:57:41 pm ---[...]One can't make a video game all by himself. (Though I've read only two people made "Light of Altair.")[...]
--- End quote ---
what about the first ff game, afaik it was made by a single japanese guy who got fed up with something.
--- Quote from: keybounce on June 26, 2009, 04:43:50 am ---Blaster bombs were a disaster!
One trick I learned was the reaction wall. Anything coming out of the UFO got slaughtered.
Then, suddenly, a bomb came out of the UFO. My wall of soldiers was almost wiped out.
[...]
--- End quote ---
blaster bombs did not go to another floor through elevator.
that's why you should set up a reaction wall not at a doorway but at an elevator.
the aliens did try to shoot blaster bombs through elevators, though, and that was a problem when trying to catch alien commander from a base by using small launcher (fired stun grenades) reaction wall at entrance elevator.
i didn't like launchers myself, i think they created too much chaos if you didn't take care of them asap, and therefore forced the player to routinely use the psi tactics that was already overpowered.
Destructavator:
I remember the version of the original XCOM game made quite a difference with how the AI worked - I purchased the first release on floppy discs for DOS, and when a patch came out the notes in the patch said that the AI had been re-designed so that the aliens would really come after player units.
I also remember I could, did, and had fun shooting blaster bombs up elevators inside UFOs, although I don't recall if it was before or after the patch. The bombs were also good for entering UFOs by making your own "door" to come in almost wherever you wanted, which was kinda fun.
I think many of these things vary depending on what version one played - I've actually seen the European release in action which is a bit different than the American one I played, and then there were patches that came out after the floppy discs, and even later another version came out for earlier versions of Windows (which I have not seen personally) from what I've heard. The original DOS version that I had also went through more than one upgrade patch.
Fistleaf:
Since BTAxis has already apologised, I will also apologise to BTAxis and all others involved for the use of provocative language.
Some points to clarify here:
--- Quote from: odie on June 28, 2009, 06:40:38 pm ---I reread the post and realised what he meant - that the team should not be focusing on 3D and instead on the gameplay and 'other areas'..... my bad.
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My intention in this post is not to criticise UFOAI as a bad game. In fact, I have even posted in StrategyCore forum about how this game looks good. What I wanted to bring up for discussion was why other XCom clones have failed, and how can UFOAI not make the same mistakes. The part about "concentrating on 3D" was a general comment on the failure of XCom clones, not just directed at UFOAI. Somehow the comment was misintepreted as an attack on UFOAI. I have no reason to do that, as I am not creating a rival game to compete with UFOAI.
--- Quote from: odie on June 28, 2009, 06:40:38 pm ---FYI, he IS the admin. i.e. He can simply Shut U Up and PBan u from forum.
--- End quote ---
I know that, but I have never encountered such an aggressive admin before (no offence intended).
--- Quote from: odie on June 28, 2009, 06:40:38 pm ---
On this point, probably becos of the fact u r new, u should know that there is such a thing as strategy. U CAN escape, just depending on your distance on the nearest base. (Btw, i do not even know the version of the UFOAI u r running..... and the OS you are running this on).
--- End quote ---
I am running the latest stable version 2.2.1 I think. What strategy can I use if the first ship from my first base gets attacked on the way back from a successful mission on the other side of the globe? It's back to square one instantly. I have already lost 2 ships just doing maybe 5 missions.
--- Quote from: odie on June 28, 2009, 06:40:38 pm ---Certainly this is better than XCOM in many ways:
1) It is 3D engine.
3) This IS FREEWARE and OPEN SOURCE and NOT commercial. Hence, its is TONS better.
--- End quote ---
These 2 points I do not agree with. 3D alone doesn't mean better, 2D graphics may work better sometimes. Of course if it can be done in 3D, more power to you.
Freeware alone also doesn't mean better. In terms of cost of game, it's better. But a freeware game that nobody plays is not better than a commercial game.
Again, this is just for discussion. Don't go overboard treating every single comment as an attack on UFOAI.
--- Quote from: odie on June 28, 2009, 06:40:38 pm ---And btw, more DOES means better (most of the time). Let me ask u, if XCOM1 turns 3d, becomes better graphics, better music, allows longer better storyline, have more research and have options to conquer alien's homeworld, is it not going to be better?
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This is a misconception. As an analogy, a hit 2hour-length movie may end up ruined if extra scenes are added till it becomes a draggy 4hour movie. Similarly, overdoing the features may end up ruining the perfect balance of the game.
--- Quote from: odie on June 28, 2009, 06:40:38 pm ---Dun stereotype ppl is the lesson to be learnt here.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I agree. Don't stereotype every comment as an attack on UFOAI.
--- Quote from: odie on June 28, 2009, 06:40:38 pm ---And as for u, back to the last comment from u..... seriously, quoting yourself, i think 'you sound like a teenager by your use of language' too..... honestly. Hence, do take up some public relations lessons too yourself ok?
--- End quote ---
The teenagers in your country have such a high standard of English? Which country are you from? ;)
My public relations lessons all went down the drain after being pissed off by BTAxis. But I am not angry with BTAxis now.
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