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Author Topic: 2.5 sucks completely  (Read 57229 times)

Offline Sims

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 03:23:09 pm »
I think you guys should use more smoke grenades and gas grenades ...  Kneeing and waiting to RF an Alien just won't do it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 05:52:02 pm by Sims »

Offline H-Hour

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2013, 03:27:55 pm »
Then create your own cover.

(edit - oh, Sims beat me to it!)

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 12:55:20 am »
I would except I'm advancing two by two. One guy moves while the one behind him stays still in RF. Then the guy that advanced holds still in RF and the other guy advances. Smoke isn't much help because the aliens just run through it.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 01:15:13 am »
It seems to me you're making some poor tactical choices and then blaming the game when your strategy doesn't work well. When my strategy doesn't work, I try another one.

You should be bringing your whole squad into the picture and not splitting them up. Two soldiers are almost never enough to safely take on any alien threat. They'll need assistance, especially if you're relying a lot on RF. I'll clear a small building with groups of 3-5 minimum on small indoor maps and put all 6-8 into overlapping fields of fire in outdoor areas with better lines of sight. Occasionally you'll be stretched thin if you spawn in the middle of the map and have to cover 360 degrees, but that's where smoke grenades are indispensable to cut off angles of exposure. Playing defensively -- managing your exposure -- is often far more important than racking up kills quickly.

Offline Sims

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 10:02:37 am »
I agree with H-Hour. I got killed many times before i starting to use smoke Grenades. The 2.5 is relay more strategic. I like that. And i also don't panic when i loose a soldier some time. It is part of the game.

Offline tembero

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2013, 03:22:08 pm »
{exerpt from ufo xcom enemy unknown} turn 1 - smoke thrown out of back of skyranger, soldiers moved out into smoke. turn 2, 4 soldiers remain of the original 14 after soldier glimpsed in skyranger by blaster launcher equiped alien. Anger at loss of Colonel causes agressive seek and destroy. Turn 3 - 1 soldier has not been cut down by reaction fire but is now panicking. Turn 4 - Game Over! I believe the aliens are a little playable than in the original XCOM.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2013, 04:01:00 am »
Yes, but now since we start outside the drop ship it tends to go more like: Turn 1 - Soldier tries to throw smoke, is cut down by Reaction Fire. Repeat until out of soldiers.

The tactic works perfectly actually. It's that reaction fire seems to be utterly pointless is what I'm getting at. The idea of reaction fire is that it's supposed to give the soldiers a chance to shoot back when the enemy is having it's turn. Unfortunately, it seems they're getting no benefit unless you're using pistols because of the seriously disparate TU costs. There seems to be little reason to use RF and waste TU when they can be better spent taking shots at the enemy.

Frankly I don't bother getting attached to soldiers. They're entirely disposable now. One hit and it's just seeing how much damage they can do before they bleed out.

Offline krilain

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2013, 11:37:42 am »
The tactic works perfectly actually. It's that reaction fire seems to be utterly pointless is what I'm getting at. The idea of reaction fire is that it's supposed to give the soldiers a chance to shoot back when the enemy is having it's turn. Unfortunately, it seems they're getting no benefit unless you're using pistols because of the seriously disparate TU costs. There seems to be little reason to use RF and waste TU when they can be better spent taking shots at the enemy.
The reaction fire is unfortunately the only way to progress prudently through the map for an alone soldier, and maybe at first turn for all. But, I also try to group 2 by 2 or more my guys, unless if I'm sending someone on a roof. The reason for that is the TU cost for RF can be saved if you have enough visibility, and being 2 allows you to cover more angles.

However, at the approach of corners, and at the early campain, there is nothing as efficient as awaiting the ennemy with RF+pistols / flammer.

Setting on the RF for every turn and throwing smoke everywhere is not my prefered combination. But one isolated soldier, that moreover shouldn't hurt a friendly unit accidently, must use it, there is no better choice.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 04:47:49 pm by krilain »

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2013, 08:17:14 pm »
That's the benefit of the two man team. If the leader spots an enemy around the corner, the rear guy can't be seen so he can move up if he has to and throw grenades over whatever the corner consists of. The port is a good example. If the first guy turns around a cargo container, and see's an alien, the second guy can then skip grenades over the top of the container. If the first guy fires, the alien fires first and he ends up bleeding out.

Large, open maps don't mean anything. I've learned to identify them, and send a team of half snipers and half guys with no guns, but Medkits. It's more effective and efficient to stand back and shoot with Sniper Rifles than try to close and end the fight. RF at that range will miss most of the time and having medkits within useable range means no deaths.

Offline jerzy_cz

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2013, 09:43:31 pm »
For large, open maps I hide my snipers inside smoke cloud. I send spotter to see the enemy, quickly retreat and then shoot from inside the smoke...

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2013, 01:09:13 am »
Waste of a Grenade. With four snipers, you can finish the entire alien group before more than one or two shots land.

Incidentally, I started a new game with the latest version ie 2-12-2013, and it's much better than before, though the inability of snipers to wear armor is pretty stupid.

Offline krilain

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2013, 01:29:57 am »
Incidentally, I started a new game with the latest version ie 2-12-2013, and it's much better than before, though the inability of snipers to wear armor is pretty stupid.
I've to see this , thanks for the aknowledgment sir ;_)
(..) it's much better than before, though the inability of snipers to wear armor is pretty stupid.
In general I would agree with such a remark. If the association sniper+armor has to be discouraged, I'm OK with the idea, the way to do this shouldn't be to make it impossible. I would prefere a malus on the accuracy, or applyable on the stealth when it will be implemented. That's normal to have difficulties to shoot when you wear a heavy armour, however, you still can shoot so if some people prefere, let them do.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 11:49:19 am by krilain »

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2013, 02:55:57 am »
The problem is that most of the maps aren't large enough to use the sort of stealth a sniper excels at. Being so far away that only a lucky shot will hurt them, and only a couple will kill them. I had my first mission be in the graveyard map, which is awesome, and I killed three of the four aliens on the map, and had the fourth one fire twice and instantly kill one of my two snipers. I did a little math and had he been wearing the armor, he'd have survived. He was literally within the one square effective range of someone's medkit, which is a rare enough circumstance. Since he can't wear armor and make an aimed shot, he ends up going into battle in his pyjamas, which are not at all protective.

I'd rather the imposition of a movement penalty for the armor. If you're wearing too much armor, you should be using 3 TU to move, not be unable to shoot.

Offline Sarin

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2013, 07:35:38 am »
That's odd, every recruit starts at 30+ strength, that's enough to wear combat armor, sniper rifle, spare reload and couple of grenades, that's bare minimum you need. So you are either playing a game started before the weight was implemented so your soldiers have too low strength, or you are trying to reach the TU bonus, and that limits your loadout options too much to make the snipers effective.

Offline krilain

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2013, 11:51:15 am »
So you are either playing a game started before the weight was implemented so your soldiers have too low strength, or you are trying to reach the TU bonus, and that limits your loadout options too much to make the snipers effective.
This armor issue is about the last nightly release. I havn't played it yet.
I'd rather the imposition of a movement penalty for the armor. If you're wearing too much armor, you should be using 3 TU to move, not be unable to shoot.
I wouldn't say unable to shoot, I would say hampered. In my opinion it is easier to shoot with accuracy when you wear light.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 11:54:48 am by krilain »