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Author Topic: 2.5 sucks completely  (Read 228814 times)

Offline blade01

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2.5 sucks completely
« on: February 04, 2013, 03:21:26 pm »
Hi there!Ive played your game since i dont know the version number but a long time.2.4 was realy great with some flaws in weapon balancing i think.Now the game sucks completely!Why?Let me explain:

1.Reaction fire isnt working!!!!Like ive said ive played the game for some time and i know how to activate reaction fire.My soldiers almost NEVER shoot an alien.One time i was REALY pissed off because 4(!!) soldiers in reaction fire sitting in a floor have no intention to fire.ONE(!!) alien walks a couple of meters and kills ALL of them!!!!This is just ridiculus!!!The aliens ALWAYS use reaction fire and it works.That sucks.....

2.And that brings me to point 2.Is the flashbang even working??I throw a couple of them right on an aliens head.To test it i throw 3 of them and than try to shoot the bastard.HE SHOT BACK!!!!What a piece of garbage is this flashbang???I thought it is used to prevent reaction fire(read it here)....

3.The new encumbrance system is pretty bad!I start off with new soldiers that cant lift the EM rifle.How stupid it that(and the ammo for that rifle is another story)??Is there some kind of steroidabuse going on in the base that makes the older soldiers strong like gozilla???

4.I think the aliens are a little bit imba.They got plenty of APs and the the plasma rifle need too less AP to be fired.They walk a mile fire.My soldiers walk 5 meters and often cant fire or they can but wont hit anything because the target is too far away.

I think 2.5 got some cool new features but it need MUCH tweaking in terms of balance.I ve deinstalled the game because its not funny when ONE alien can kill 2-3 of my soldiers because they dont fire back.

Offline Sarin

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 03:42:53 pm »
1. Reaction fire IS working. You either did not activate it or alien didn't spend enough TUs within field of fire of that soldier to trigger it. It's a common tactic for them to walk behind your soldier before firing so he doesn't see them firing, thus not triggering RF. Positioning, proper choice of weapons and mode for RF will help.

2. Flashbangs. I've noticed that when they explode exactly on same cell as alien is, they fail sometimes. If they explode next to alien they usually work. Also, use the same trick as aliens to avoid their RF if you can. The game isn't supposed to be easy, use some tactics and you'll do okay.

3. You need to do some compromises, especially early on when your soldiers have just few missions. But even starting soldiers can carry armor, weapon, sidearm, one reload for both, IR goggles and couple grenades, barring some heaviest weaponry. Medikits are usually reserved for troops with lighter weapons like assault rifle, but if you select your troops properly, troops with lighter weapons will be able to carry full backpack within dozen of missions. Of course, then new, heavier armors become available and you'll need more trained soldiers to carry the same gear with heavier armor. Learn to do compromises, think about what you really need (my soldiers don't need more than one reload for mission barring extreme circumstances).

4. They're fast, but dumb. You also have the benefit of medikits and after mission, hospital that now heals quickly. Little tactics are enough to get casualty rate to less than 1 per mission. This isn't supposed to be walk in the park.

And finally, learn to use less exclamation marks, question marks and caps. People will take you more seriously.

Offline Noordung

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 04:21:26 pm »
Less than 1 is 0 ;)
Once i had problems with shavar surviving one shot from assult rifle and 5 shots from machine gun from next grid. Than shavar just shot both of my soliders...
Yes 2.5 is harder that 2.4... Much harder. But only real problem is that in battlescape there is no difference between very hard and very easy dificoulty. Well little difference that aliens get better weapons later... But still not enoight difference.
If your soliders die too much in battles than do auto battles. Mostly you get better resoults than on battlescape. If not jst reload till you get 0 casualites.

Offline krilain

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 07:24:05 pm »
Unless I missed some news, what you call 2.5 is just the dev version. It is not a release. The 2.4 is good (overall) and is the last release .

And yes, I agree that 2.5 will need a lot of tweaking. My first concern would be to find a release good to play but above all still light enough for the smallest computers.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 07:26:06 pm by krilain »

Offline geever

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 10:50:07 pm »
You know it is a funny thing about reaction fire... :)

People say it is not working in the current version, but worked in the previous. They say it all the time and ever since I'm with the project.

They said it at 2.2 -> 2.3 change, at 2.3 -> 2.4 change, and even now before 2.4 -> 2.5 change.

But if they are right and say the truth, then it must have worked in 2.4 so the ones complained about 2.3 -> 2.4 were wrong, and if 2.4 complainers were at least half-right then it worked in 2.3, so ones complained on 2.2 -> 2.3 change were wrong....

So let's think about it a bit: Is it more probable that people simply needs time to understand the system and adapt their strategies to it, or that the system is working and not working at the same time?

-geever

Offline jcjordan

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 12:27:25 am »
As to #1, I do think there's something wrong with all the factors that involve a solider taking a shot that something might need to be changed somewhere. From what I can gather some of the things that can determine if a soldier takes a shot are having RF set, enough pts left to do it & intelligence skill but there may be other skills/factors. There's a wargame I play & in it, there are so many die rolls to do something that inevitably the result is failing to do anything which wouldn't be the case in real life but the AI doesn't go by these rolls whereas the human player does. I have had several missions where I've had 2-4 soldiers on RF all looking at the alien & the alien walks/runs 8-10 spaces to behind one of my soliders & then shoots him in the back but none of my soldiers shoot but should've???

Are we seeing the same thing as in the other game where there are too many die rolls to do something that the result is nothing is done?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 10:48:53 am »
Are we seeing the same thing as in the other game where there are too many die rolls to do something that the result is nothing is done?
No. RF is extraordinarily simple in terms of calculations and there are no die rolls involved. Please, everyone, search the forums before spreading false speculation. The RF mechanism has been explained many times and these ill-informed comments only spread misinformation.

Offline Sarin

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 11:33:19 am »
Speaking about that, how is RF actually working in these two cases:

Plasma blaster. I noticed that aliens sometimes use ball mode, sometimes single shot for RF, based on distance. Do they choose their RF mode during their turn, or is it actually selected in the moment RF triggers?

Hovernets/combat hovernets (and maybe bloodspiders, but I never had bloodspider actually get into such situation): I noticed that their firing doesn't trigger RF unlike all other aliens, how is that, do they have some special TU calculation for their fire modes?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 11:52:05 am »
Hovernets/combat hovernets (and maybe bloodspiders, but I never had bloodspider actually get into such situation): I noticed that their firing doesn't trigger RF unlike all other aliens, how is that, do they have some special TU calculation for their fire modes?
I have RF'd against hovernets and bloodspiders before, exactly as I'd expect. Nothing in this game treats the type of alien differently (ie - the AI isn't aware of what type of alien it is, as far as I know). Two possibilities for your perception that hovernets don't cause RF. First, when a soldier loses sight of an alien for a moment, the RF counter must start over. Hovernets are very mobile. I frequently catch sight of hovernets, then lose sight, then catch sight again. Second, I find hovernets are more likely to stay at and fire from long range. Soldiers will not RF unless there is a reasonable chance of hitting the target, so they rarely respond to fire/movement over long distances.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 04:30:18 am »
Okay, so correct me if I've messed this up, but as far as I can tell, RF works as follows:

Soldier sights enemy. Enemy moves, using up (x) TU. If (x) is equal to or greater to the number of TU reserved for the reaction shot, then a reaction shot is fired. The chance to hit must also be reasonable.

So part of the mis-conception is the early game when plasma pistols take only 4 TU to fire, compared to 8 for the Assault Rifle. So the aliens get two free shots to your one but only if you're facing the right way.  It really makes the early game frustrating because one mistake in placement costs the whole team.

Does facing of the aliens matter for flashbangs?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 10:32:34 am »
"Enemy moves, using up Enemy does anything that costs (x) TU."

And yes, when the aliens are using pistols they will RF more frequently. (And when soldiers use low-TU firemodes they will RF more frequently.)

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 02:24:10 am »
Sorry. In short, until they start using rifles, stick with pistols.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 12:35:19 pm »
Sorry. In short, until they start using rifles, stick with pistols.

Or learn to move in cover, establish contact safely, fire from cover and use indirect fire. It doesn't have to be a western shootout. This old gem for the original X-Com is still a must-read for UFO: Alien Invasion.

Offline Sarin

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 01:42:57 pm »
Best weapons for early close range engagements are SMG and riot shotgun. But after aliens deploy first armor, they become ineffective.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2013, 02:07:21 pm »
I always move from cover to cover, and fire under the best cover available, but it doesn't really help, particularly when the aliens move to shoot me and no one can fire because they've used one less TU than necessary to trigger RF, which they almost always do. Pistols are the order of the day early on.