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What do you think?

Change to Q3/Ioq3 engine
2 (50%)
Yes if we can convert/reformat most things into Q3/Ioq3 engine
2 (50%)
IDK... Yes and No... Depending of what we can gain or lose...
0 (0%)
No because we probavly couldt convert most things into Q3/Ioq3 engine
0 (0%)
Stay with Quake 2 engine
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: May 12, 2012, 10:35:10 pm

Author Topic: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?  (Read 9520 times)

Offline iamaloner

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Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« on: March 11, 2012, 09:35:10 pm »
Hello people, I am new to this forum and I have a major question...

Why UFO:AI is still running and developing on Quake 2 and not on more advanced Quake 3 engine?

I know that this game started in 2003 when Q3 engine wasnt open source and Q2 was already open source for years, I dont know why UFO:AI wasnt transfered to Q3 engine since it became avalible because of some features and I am not expert, coder or dev but I dont know if it is more complex to develop something on Q3 engine... Or IoQuake 3 engine...

Anyway I think that we should transfer to Quake 3/IoQuake 3 engine...

Even thought it would slow progress and that most content would probavly be lost if not possible to convert/reformat to Quake 3 or IoQuake 3 engine properly, but changing engine would be beneficial... Especialy if we change to IoQuake3 engine ...

There are more benefits like more realistic animations, more possible difrient looks of soldier, civilians, aliens, etc... Because MD3 models are seperated into 3 parts and that are Head/Torso, Arms and Legs...

IDK what to tell you but there is an interesting fact that Quake 3 engine can support skeletal animation and heres the data on Wikipedia (look at models part of text):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_3

I cant write tons of things what is good on Q3 engine...

Look on the web and find details...

Anyway IDK what to write, I just want your opinion...

Also IDK where to find Gongos MD4 implementation files for Quake 3/IoQuake 3 engine...
I hope you guys find it...

Thats all for now... Please respond ...

Offline bayo

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 10:54:51 pm »
Hello.

We are not using Quake 2 engine, but an evily modified engine based on Quake 2 engine. I understand the renderer is based on LordHavoc's DarkPlaces, but we are still hacking thinks. Id software engines are known for that. Each games hack the engine for there needs.

The philosophy of ioEngines is to clean up old engine and maintaine the code. But not especially to improve functionality according to new needs. It is nice of mods, but i dont think it is nice for us. We do not create a FPS, we need much more game content and story, random maps, much more complexe GUI... but i am quite speculative here.

Changing the engine is not an easy thing. And i am not sure we can really answer what code is the game or the engine. I think mattn convert step by step the code to create an "ufoai" engine. Maybe he can answer.

You talk about actor models. We are already using MD3 and most of your game content use MD3 (and also skeletal model formats from DarkPlaces). But is is only a file format. We use this models with our needs (tags, heads, skins), models for aircrafts, models for UGV... and things like that.

What i mean is it is very hard to know if our game can fit to another engine. And probably it is not a very good idea. But patchs are always welcome. Sure, that's only my own answer :-)

BTW doom3 engine was released few time ago :-) which is well know for its outdoor rendering (just kiding) and is IK animations.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 10:56:41 pm by bayo »

Offline iamaloner

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 11:09:12 pm »
Thanks for response...

I did not know about these details, especialy that you use MD3 animation format... And skeletal...

Anyway I hope that models will be more complex in polygonical, animation and textures but if well made and dont affect performance of the game. Also I hope that maps will be complex and not use alot of hardware/performace power... Good Luck...

Offline Mattn

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 06:45:57 am »
I understand the renderer is based on LordHavoc's DarkPlaces, but we are still hacking thinks.

Sorry, this is wrong, it's based on jdolan's quake2world renderer

and yes, we can load the static meshes from darkplaces dpm format, but not the skeletal part
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 06:47:47 am by Mattn »

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 06:56:08 am »
Also I hope that maps will be complex and not use alot of hardware/performace power... Good Luck...

It really will need a lot of "Good Luck" to make these two things fit together.

Offline iamaloner

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 02:24:16 pm »
Everything is possible...

Offline Kildor

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 02:58:42 pm »
>Everything is possible...
Are you programmer?
You always can write a patch.

Offline iamaloner

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 03:45:22 pm »
No, I am not a programmer... I dont want to become insane...

I can do some artwork, storyline proposals with great detail, possible balance proposals if there were difficulty called "realistic"...

We already saw that something that seems imposible is possible...

Also I dint know that UFO:AI has custom engine based on Quake 2 engine with some stuff comparable to Quake 3 engine... Anyway for mapping it can be detailed and optimized but you must find a way to optimize it...

Like it dosent rendered some part of map that you dont see and that probavly already greatly improved in the game...

Well I hope that style and look of building of vehicles will be more futuristic then nowadays, its in the games storyline 2080is? Why not futuristic cars and vans that would like they are from 2080is and that it dosent need to be ugly or look a like nowadays cars...

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 08:52:35 pm »
If you can do artwork, just provide some models.

If you do so, I promise I make a map with them. On this map there will be a river, forming your name when looking at it from the distance.

Ildamos

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 11:45:47 am »
IF there's any porting to do, FYI, the id Tech 4 engine is already open source.

UFO: AI with Doom 3 graphics anyone?

Of course, methinks this isn't practical at this point in time; the current build isn't even finished yet.

Offline iamaloner

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 02:39:59 pm »
IF there's any porting to do, FYI, the id Tech 4 engine is already open source.

UFO: AI with Doom 3 graphics anyone?

Of course, methinks this isn't practical at this point in time; the current build isn't even finished yet.

I agree but I would love to see if UFO:AI had really own engine specialy made for its needs...

Ildamos

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2012, 04:48:08 pm »
I agree but I would love to see if UFO:AI had really own engine specialy made for its needs...

That would even stretch our already overly optimistic wishes even more. :) But yep, that would be great too.

Offline ipkeez

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 11:43:44 pm »
Hi i am new here, well i tried in 2009 help with solving some opened bugs at that time.... But it did not work, on that time i had a personal problem.... despite all odds, i still downloaded the code and compiled it and all, changed the code (C/C++ code) a little bit and all... Just for chilling...

The thing is, if you want someone with +10y experience with programming (incl. C/C++) to modify it's engine or maybe migrate some sort of code into a new one, count on me, i got registered today for saying/offer that.

I just must let you know that i have no gamming dev. experience and none of its patterns and most used algorithms and all, but i can read the code, change, do some tuning, suggest new implementations and new ways to do stuff.

Contact-me, i would like having some documentation and models from the project in order to start understanding what is going on, but, i am looking forward to help in a possible code migration to something more modern that could bring to the game some new functionalities without the need of doing miracles and all. (yes i am talking about the destructable terrain thing).

Offline Sandro

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 07:01:56 pm »
I know that this game started in 2003 when Q3 engine wasnt open source and Q2 was already open source for years, I dont know why UFO:AI wasnt transfered to Q3 engine since it became avalible because of some features and I am not expert, coder or dev but I dont know if it is more complex to develop something on Q3 engine... Or IoQuake 3 engine...

It's as simple as that: engines are not like gloves, you cannot change them at a whim. They use different data formats, different integration methods, and so on -- it's a massive rewrite of code comparable, I think, to developing an engine specifically designed for UFO:AI. So -- I'm not doing it personally, and my guess is nobody of the team will.
Also, current engine is not the idTech2 anymore. It was heavily changed, modified and upgraded. Actually, it supports most of GFX features of idTech3 already, save for the support of portals --which are not needed for UFO:AI anyway -- and the outdoors terrain (which is missing from the original Quake3 engine, by the way). So, what's the point?

Offline Sandro

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Re: Why Quake 2 and not Quake 3(or Ioquake3) engine?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 07:06:34 pm »
Contact-me, i would like having some documentation and models from the project in order to start understanding what is going on, but, i am looking forward to help in a possible code migration to something more modern that could bring to the game some new functionalities without the need of doing miracles and all. (yes i am talking about the destructable terrain thing).

Documentation is available right here in the wiki ("Contribute" tab), and code is freely downloadable along with all game data from the SourceForge. So you can start hacking at code without any permissions or help.