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Author Topic: primary vs. secondary weapons  (Read 12003 times)

Offline dfscott

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primary vs. secondary weapons
« on: July 01, 2010, 05:22:50 pm »
First, having great fun so far (had one of those "OMG - it's quarter 'til 3 and I have to go to work tomorrow!" moments last night :))

My question revolves around primary vs secondary weapons.  I noticed that certain weapons are listed as "primary" (e.g., Assault Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Flamethrower, Rocket Launcher) while others are listed as "secondary" (e.g., Machine Pistol, Submachine Gun, Micro Shotgun).

Is there any specific qualities to being classified as primary vs secondary or is it just a convenient way to group the weapons?  I thought maybe the game was trying to hint that you shouldn't use an SMG as your main weapon or something.

Offline Sarin

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 05:32:29 pm »
Secondary weapons fit the holster, that's the main difference I think.

Offline Majki-Fajki

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 05:33:28 pm »
Well. If Your soldier is equiped with blast weapon, and You encouner enemy at point blank, specially in buliding, SMG on full auto  is far safer than granade/rocket :)

Offline Hertzila

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 11:49:35 pm »
I think it's basically the usual difference between weapons aimed to be main weapons (primary) and weapons designed as backups (secondary). SMGs blur the line a lot and it really depends on the game where it will classify them.
But in UFO:AI I think it's based on what Sarin said: whether or not it fits into the holster (and will be much quicker to draw out). SMGs can work as primary for some time but at least when the aliens start using armor they're out.

Offline Majki-Fajki

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2010, 10:45:54 am »
Why weapons doesn't jam? It would help making secondary weapons more important as a element of tactics:)

Offline geever

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2010, 11:34:55 am »
Why weapons doesn't jam? It would help making secondary weapons more important as a element of tactics:)

It's been discussed already. PHALANX is an elite squad, not a bunch of mercenaries. They keep their weapons in perfect condition.

-geever

Offline Majki-Fajki

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2010, 11:40:06 am »
Point taken.

Offline TDarklighter

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2010, 01:44:31 am »
The best way to describe the difference between primary and secondary weapons in-game is "Does it fit the holster?" but also "Is it one handed?"  With the exception of the SMG (and micro-shotgun, I think?), all the secondary weapons are one-handed use. It would make reasonable sense if the SMG (or both) were usable in a single hand, as secondary weapons allow you to carry something in your soldier's other hand, like a grenade or stun-rod or medikit, while still permitting your soldier to defend or attack.

Secondary weapons are just that - secondary.  They make good weapons at the start of the game, but they fall into second place the moment armor appears on your opponents.  A 7.62mm pistol just does not have the stopping power of, for example, an assault rifle or flechette loaded riot shotgun, although it does get more shots per TUs than either of the mentioned weapons.  It is still possible to design a strategy around their use for extensive combat use, though there will likely be better weapons at this point that renders "pistol" weapons obsolete.

I am not sure how it is in other countries' armed forces, but American parlance refers to secondary weapons as a "side-arms"; they are worn at the side in a holster and used when the primary weapon (usually a rifle) runs out of ammunition or is otherwise disabled.  In general, a side-arm(secondary) weapon is a pistol-type weapon that can be wielded with a single hand - this is by design: in case a fighter breaks or loses their arm, they can still defend themselves.

In UFO: AI, the most logical use of a secondary weapon is for ammo shortages (such as your stores running out of clips for your primaries and for whatever reason it goes unnoticed), rocket launchers, and laser pistols (they are very accurate and pack quite a punch when you first get them!).  In personal experience, I use rocket launchers as one-shot-drop weapons - they're too inaccurate for my enjoyment and the reload time is, appropriately, expensive.  Grenade launchers are more accurate, though sometimes impractical and my soldier switches to his pistol for close-quarters fighting.  Once I get laser rifles, my guys generally don't carry sidearms anymore - the holster space gets used for grenades - gas or plasma, depending on how many prisoners I've got.  Or just for more DF-cartridges - it never hurts to have spare ammo! :)

Offline Sarin

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2010, 12:21:37 pm »
In personal experience, I use rocket launchers as one-shot-drop weapons - they're too inaccurate for my enjoyment and the reload time is, appropriately, expensive. 

I, on the other hand, have found RL invaluable tactical weapon. It is accurate-you just have to crouch before firing. While they lack damage late ingame, I frequently use them for indirect fire over longer ranges than GL.

By the way, SMG shouldn't be classified as secondary weapon, submachine guns are used as primary weapons in reality.

Offline dfscott

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2010, 03:08:21 pm »
Secondary weapons are just that - secondary.  They make good weapons at the start of the game, but they fall into second place the moment armor appears on your opponents. 

Does that hold true for the SMG as well?  I know you said it doesn't really fit the mold, but I'm starting to run into armored aliens now and I've upgraded my assault rifles to laser rifles to good effect.  However, I'm not sure what to upgrade my SMGs to (if anything?)  Would laser pistols be a good upgrade?

Offline Sarin

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2010, 03:40:47 pm »
Laser pistols are good when you need long range sidearm, for close range engagements either plasma pistol or grab a few plasma blades.

Offline dfscott

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2010, 05:55:36 pm »
Laser pistols are good when you need long range sidearm, for close range engagements either plasma pistol or grab a few plasma blades.

 OK, thanks. I have a bunch of guys with close combat skill and I couldn't figure out how best to upgrade them.

Offline Sarin

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2010, 06:21:22 pm »
Laser pistols are great weapons for medics. While they don't have a kick to kill armored alien in one turn, they are great long range finishers. Plasma blade+laser pistol is all you need in department of backup weapons. I just use plasma pistols on laser equipped soldiers so they dont have only one damage type.

Offline Majki-Fajki

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2010, 08:06:02 pm »
Today I tested minishotgun for my sniper. I found that ambshed sniper on close range is in trouble. He can kill ontrok, but MP cost is high. Quick draw of full auto tiny weapon saved me a lot of trouble.

Offline Causley

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Re: primary vs. secondary weapons
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2010, 11:16:04 pm »
I usually don't change the equipment of my soldiers / the soldiers in my team according to the mission. Too lazy for that.

Thus, when the terrain seems to favor it, I let my snipers and explosves guy usually change to SMGs in early game. Later, they usually aquired enought TUs to blast the aliens with two or three close range snap-shots. Even armored ortnoks don't like that.