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Offline Mattn

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Normalizing sounds
« on: April 09, 2009, 07:52:57 am »
Hi,

it would be very nice if someone with a decent equipment (i only have stereo headsets where the right side is defect ;)) and a ear for stuff like that would normalize the shooting and footstep sounds - the footstep sounds are a little bit too loud in relation to the shooting sounds imo (at least on my defect headset). the shootgun sounds not really like a shootgun - could be a little bit louder imo. if there are weapons that are using the same sounds where one should be louder but the other not, we should just add a new file.

edit
Please also try to convert them into the ogg format while you are on it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 09:01:01 am by Mattn »

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 02:08:03 am »
I can take care of this one - it falls right into my expertise.

The only part I'd need a little help with is what a real shotgun should sound like - the one in the game that is - as I can look up clips and videos of shotguns in action on the net, but I don't know what models or types are closest to the one in the game.

If someone who knows firearms well and is familiar with what the shotguns in the game are based upon, and can perhaps list or point to a few comparable real-life models that there are clips of on the net (that would sound like what is desired, of course), that would be a big help.

Another thing I can do is take the existing sounds that have GPL licenses and base new sounds upon them to replace the ones without a license of any kind, that way they can all eventually have a license.

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 03:09:35 am »
Quote
Another thing I can do is take the existing sounds that have GPL licenses and base new sounds upon them to replace the ones without a license of any kind, that way they can all eventually have a license.

Here's a quick-and-dirty example of a few variants of the assault rifle sound, modified in a few different ways.  I suppose these could be used for different weapons or something, although I'm not an expert in firearms.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Hertzila

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 10:40:50 am »
At least from the way the shotgun looks like, here is a couple of shotguns that look similiar and likely would sound similiar: Saiga line, USAS-12, SPAS-15. Though I don't know if they have clips in the net and it's possible that the magazine doesn't affect the sound in any way, in which case any semi-auto-shotgun (Benelli perhaps) would do the trick.
Did I understand correctly what you needed?
Edit: For the Micro-shotgun, I'd guess any short-barreled shotgun or sawn-off shotgun is good enough.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 12:47:49 pm by Hertzila »

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 07:54:18 pm »
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Did I understand correctly what you needed?

Yes, perfectly, thank you very much - this certainly helps quite a bit.  Quite honestly I've never heard of most of these weapons you've just mentioned, but thankfully in this Internet age we do have search engines and such.  I'll look these models up at some point when I have time, I'd imagine that at least some of them should have audio or video clips I could find.

Offline Mattn

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2009, 12:35:38 pm »
... but keep the licensing stuff in the back of your head while searching for them ;)

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2009, 09:39:19 pm »
any progress on this front?

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2009, 10:49:04 pm »
Actually yes, I've been grabbing video clips off the net of real firearms in action, and what I'm going to do is try to manipulate the existing GPL sounds in various ways - I know from research that most weapons sounds in games as well as many movies are actually synthesized or sounds from other things that are manipulated, as taking samples from recordings of real guns often leads to poor results (as well as running into license/copyright issues).  I've also found articles on the net that describe various ways of editing sounds in such ways, and as I said I have plenty of tools to do this.

I also wanted to ask - should the resulting sounds be "dry" (no reverb or ambiance), or should they have some kind of room/spatial effect?  Can the SDL playback in the game add such reverb effect easily?  Dry shooting sounds really do sound very different than ones with reverb.

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 02:48:29 am »
Update: Here's my very first original, home-brewed gunshot/impact sound that I made on my own, not from other samples, but from inflating a plastic bag in my apartment, popping it in front of a Heil PR-20 XLR microphone, and manipulating it with software.

This one's dry, no reverb, and is just a basic one that isn't aimed at imitating any specific weapon.

Please tell me what you think - If you like it I'll let it go around under GPL license, if that will work.  I can also further manipulate it to make similar sounds.

I glanced at the footstep sounds, I think the weapon sounds should be done first as the footsteps are supposed to be quieter, unless you devs want the footsteps normalized at full volume and just end up playing them softer in the game (via coding).

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2009, 04:09:30 am »
Here's what that sample would sound like in action, fired in bursts, with a quick-and-dirty reverb.  I don't know guns too well - does this sound close to a firearm?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Mattn

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2009, 07:39:45 am »
I also wanted to ask - should the resulting sounds be "dry" (no reverb or ambiance), or should they have some kind of room/spatial effect?  Can the SDL playback in the game add such reverb effect easily?  Dry shooting sounds really do sound very different than ones with reverb.

we have spatialization support in our sound backend. imo there should be no such reverb or ambience added to the sound. if we ever decide to add such effects, this should be done codewise. but i'm a n00b in sound questions, so if there is a good reason to add them to the sound files, please let me know. i totally trust your experience here.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 07:42:28 am by Mattn »

Offline Mattn

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2009, 07:41:28 am »
I glanced at the footstep sounds, I think the weapon sounds should be done first as the footsteps are supposed to be quieter, unless you devs want the footsteps normalized at full volume and just end up playing them softer in the game (via coding).

they should already be quieter as the weapon sounds, that's right

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2009, 07:46:57 am »
now after I've tried your example files, i would say we definitely need reverb but no ambience. i will have a look at the SDL_mixer effects.

that autoburst thing sounds nice imo (i didn't had enough imagination for the single shot version ;) )

btw. also the assault sound from above (the none ambient alpha version) sounds nice to me.

but keep in mind that I'm only owning and old and defect headset, so I might not be the person to really judge this
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 07:49:24 am by Mattn »

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2009, 08:06:25 am »
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that autoburst thing sounds nice imo (i didn't had enough imagination for the single shot version Wink )

Yeah, I like the way auto-burst example came out too, it had a little reverb and spatial stuff mixed in, and it shows that those types of effects make a big difference with gunshots and explosions.

The single shot is the "dry" one, meaning no effects were added.

Quote
btw. also the assault sound from above (the none ambient alpha version) sounds nice to me.

That was an edited version of the existing assault rifle sound, one of the ones which does have a (GPL) license, If memory serves I think that's one of the ones made by someone named Alex Parker or something, I'd have to double-check the SVN and license info.

Quote
now after I've tried your example files, i would say we definitely need reverb but no ambience. i will have a look at the SDL_mixer effects.

OK, if you have any audio questions, just ask - I don't know what SDL offers for such effects, but I do know the difference between things like "low cut," "damping," and "early reflections," etc. and I can help explain how much of what should be added to get a decent sound.  (If you come across a list of such features for SDL, it might be good to copy and paste into this thread such a list so I have some idea of what there is to work with.)

Quote
but keep in mind that I'm only owning and old and defect headset, so I might not be the person to really judge this

Who do we have here (who is currently active in the project) who is in charge of something like this and would be a good judge?

It's too bad we live so far away from each other - I've got lots of extra headsets, speakers, and audio stuff, but getting it shipped to where you are might be difficult (mostly expensive)...

Quote
we have spatialization support in our sound backend. imo there should be no such reverb or ambience added to the sound. if we ever decide to add such effects, this should be done codewise. but i'm a n00b in sound questions, so if there is a good reason to add them to the sound files, please let me know. i totally trust your experience here.

I agree - the sound files the game reads from the pk3s should be "dry" without any effects added before hand, they should be added in the game with the SDL code if possible.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 08:09:37 am by Destructavator »

Offline Hertzila

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Re: Normalizing sounds
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2009, 04:08:31 pm »
That plastic gunshot sounds like a shot from a subsonic weapon or a shot from afar (frankly it reminds me of airsoft gas gun). Burst version sounds nice for a weapon like that. I might not be the best judge, but it seems pretty good for a light weapon. Though it might be a little too "unexplosive" in a way that it sounds like a electric gun or gas powered gun (effects might correct this).
For supersonic weaponry (nearly everything two-handed), IMO it doesn't have (enough) sonic boom and/or explosion mixed in. I know we don't want to make people deaf but it isn't simply loud enough.