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Author Topic: request: soldiers start out in same place  (Read 14635 times)

Sophisanmus

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2008, 12:06:45 am »
I'm partial to the suggestion that PHALANX agents start out at random spawns throughout facilities they would be expected to frequent (Command, Quarters, Storage, etc.), but then have a limited number of turns to move into position before the aliens breach the base. 

The alien breach could be handled in several ways, though I don't think teleportation is reasonable at the moment.   Explosives make for a better explanation in my book.  Entrance obstructions could be placed on the maps, which are then demolished at the start of Alien turn X, allowing the invaders to enter. The obstructions could also be alien-destroyable, if more randomization is preferable.  Alternatively, using the alien reinforcement concept that I have heard discussed around here before, the initial alien invaders may not even have to be on the map right away, and additional aliens could be introduced at the start points as the invasion progresses. 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2008, 12:01:48 pm »
I vote on the following:

1. All base entrances are SEALED

2. Aliens have to breach them with explosives/plasma (could be automatic - set the doors to blow after 2 turns)

3. Aliens come in waves - big numbers.

4. Deployable turrets and defenses. Possibly even topside (visualises the gattling turret from C&C Generals)

Offline BTAxis

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2008, 01:29:26 pm »
The alien breach could be handled in several ways, though I don't think teleportation is reasonable at the moment.   Explosives make for a better explanation in my book.  Entrance obstructions could be placed on the maps, which are then demolished at the start of Alien turn X, allowing the invaders to enter. The obstructions could also be alien-destroyable, if more randomization is preferable.  Alternatively, using the alien reinforcement concept that I have heard discussed around here before, the initial alien invaders may not even have to be on the map right away, and additional aliens could be introduced at the start points as the invasion progresses. 

That's an interesting idea, and worth pursuing, because I had a similar arrangement in mind for the final mission (endless waves of new aliens so you can't dig in and clear the map). On the other hand, remember that we don't want base missions to take too long, and most of it should happen inside of the base, so the aliens kind of need to gain entry on turn one.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2008, 02:47:48 pm »
That's kinda the point.

Last few base defense missions I tried ended up a total bore - first I had to spend several turns just moving my soldiers towards possible entrances (you should know in which base section the aliens are. There are security cameras and sensors for a reason. I'm sure they are within PHALANX budget) and then even more turn looking for wandering aliens in between all those rooms.

So basicely, you should get a warning/map ping showing you the location of aliens and they should come in big numbers, push hard, and once you kill a few their reinforcements pop up.


Hey, if you are going to get rid of the team room, replace it with a READY ROOM - room that has training equipment (to train soldiers), storage lockers (for personal weaponry) and also doubles as a security station (reveals location of all aliens in the base). That, or you could just re-do the team room a little.

Offline Mayhem

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2008, 10:36:30 pm »
It is implied that it is. For a while now the plan has been to provide the player with a number of choices before the battle starts, such as whether or not to let the interceptors take off in order to avoid having them destroyed by the alien invaders, whether or not to kill the aliens in containment in case the aliens set them free, and whether or not to shut down the reactor to prevent the aliens from damaging it in operation. All of these are choices made on a moment's notice as the aliens invade the base.

That makes no sense unless the invader isn't tracked on radar, which would defeat the object of radar.

My intercepters use usually launched, not to protect them, but to shoot the UFO down before it reaches my base.  It makes no sense to be able to scramble pilots and shoot SAMS, but that the rest of the base personell don't noice anything going on.

Offline BTAxis

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2008, 11:42:28 pm »
Then maybe we should handle radars more like in X-COM, where UFOs weren't automatically detected. Rather, they had a chance of being detected while in radar range. Because if UFOs going for the PHALANX base can really be detected that easily and that far in advance, it might be too easy to prevent them from getting there at all.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2008, 11:54:58 pm »
Assuming you manage to shoot it down.

Still, a base designed to fight aliens shouldn't be caught with it's pants down.
Maybe radars aren't sure to detect, but there's always the good old Mk1 eyeball. Landing and making a opening in the doors take some time.

Sophisanmus

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2008, 02:02:42 am »
Well,  in the event of a UFO flying near enough to or on a course in the direction of a base, I would think that PHALANX security would be at its highest, and troopers would be given orders to get into position.  To balance it out, though, your troopers' state of readiness could be dependent on the number of shifts available; the more extra healthy soldiers a base has (above the minimum number needed for a full base defense force), the more grouped the soldiers' starting points. 

I also like % chance detection with radars.  Assuming the presence of UFO active and passive countermeasures, they should at least be able to foil human ranged detection at least under favorable circumstances.

Offline Mayhem

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2008, 10:22:45 am »
Then maybe we should handle radars more like in X-COM, where UFOs weren't automatically detected. Rather, they had a chance of being detected while in radar range. Because if UFOs going for the PHALANX base can really be detected that easily and that far in advance, it might be too easy to prevent them from getting there at all.

Just as long as we don't go down the totally contrived route of being able to detect any UFO *except* the ones that miraculously avoid radar whilst heading directly towards your base.

Offline BTAxis

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2008, 12:44:16 pm »
I agree. That would be bad.

Offline Mayhem

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2008, 02:42:11 pm »
As an aside, the only reason I find it easy to shoot down incoming would-be base attacks at the moment is due to a strategic choice - my base has no intercepters but it is built in the centre of a square of other bases, each having the central base in their radar range and being equipped with 1 saracen and 2 stilletos each.

Not only does this provide excellent protection against base invasion, it means my dropship can move around relatively safe from UFOs.  The trade-off is the reduced amount of coverage - nothing in South America or Australia, thoug I do have 1 base left to build...

If I had spread my bases out in a more convenional fashion, I'd either be sacrificing 4 sections of my home base to provide its own interception team (tight!) or I'd be relatively defenceless vs base invasions.

As I said, its a trade off - but one I am happy with given how tedious base invasions currently are...



Offline mydmitry

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2008, 04:41:32 pm »
1.Soldiers hear the alert and according the "defence plan" run to armory get ammunition then run into planned positions. (in normal military organizations)
    - where for before starting commander must select a positions of soldiers (it's a preplaned operation) (also commander in such situation can give additional oder to get specifical ammunition if it not in "defence plan").

Offline mydmitry

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2008, 05:29:58 pm »
2.When army attacking defended fortification they use special types of assault weapons (smoke granades, hight explossive, mortar) just where for points of invasions are known by base defence force and commander.

- As good variant 2 point of invasion defender may know (and set it soldiers according to whem) and one they do not know (stratagem deception of alien).
- "Invasion point" must have large ammount of smoke and fire (or just smoke) that allow alian to dispence in hostile enviroment. And somone must throw some granades in invasion area to clear it from defence forces.
- Number of attackers must be better then defenders because they are in vulnerable situation.


Offline Telok

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2008, 03:12:40 pm »
As an idea we could seal all the external base doors and make several of them breakable for the aliens to open. Best way would be to make two identical versions of the map sections for each base facility. One version would have solid closed doors, the second would have breakable external doors. You could then choose which version of the map section to use when setting up the whole map, probably random 50% chance to start. Probably would want to have the base entrance always be open, just in case.

There is a breakable brush in the game engine, it is currently used for glass in several maps and aliens will shoot through it. May need to check if the breakable brush can be used to open/close paths

Personally my only current problem with the base invasions is how long it takes to hunt down that last !@#$ alien on the surface or wherever he is. That bugger makes my base invasion missions take two to three times as long as anything else. Heck, I've started reloading until I shoot the UFO down because the last alien takes so long to find.

Offline Mayhem

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Re: request: soldiers start out in same place
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2008, 04:22:52 pm »
As an idea we could seal all the external base doors and make several of them breakable for the aliens to open. Best way would be to make two identical versions of the map sections for each base facility. One version would have solid closed doors, the second would have breakable external doors. You could then choose which version of the map section to use when setting up the whole map, probably random 50% chance to start. Probably would want to have the base entrance always be open, just in case.

There is a breakable brush in the game engine, it is currently used for glass in several maps and aliens will shoot through it. May need to check if the breakable brush can be used to open/close paths

It does - on the industrial maps you can jump out of the windows after you have shot them out.

Personally my only current problem with the base invasions is how long it takes to hunt down that last !@#$ alien on the surface or wherever he is. That bugger makes my base invasion missions take two to three times as long as anything else. Heck, I've started reloading until I shoot the UFO down because the last alien takes so long to find.

Quoted for truth!