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Author Topic: How to use medikit ?  (Read 16752 times)

Offline Another Guy

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2009, 06:27:13 am »
My memory may betray me, but as far as I remember, X-COM medikit did have it own screen with all options and parts of the body wounded. UFO extraterrestrials copied that too. Pretty cool. But a soldier could NOT target himself. No aiming either. It would treat the soldier (if any present) on the imediate (adjacent square) direction the soldier with medikit was facing. TU usage was also diferent. "using" the item wold open the medikit screen and use no TUs. But each time u attemped some treatment (either healing, painkiller or stimulant) some TUs would be used.

A badly stunned wounded soldier would take 2 or 3 turns to "fix":
one MK usage for each fatal wound point healed;
one MK usage for each 10 morale points recovered (lost when wounded);
one MK usage for each 10 points of stun damage "healed" (randomly reveived when hit by aliens or friendly fire).

Note that there was no healing other than fatal wounds healing (would grant some small hp heal with it) so could never be used to get soldier to full health (usually he would be still badly wounded and under heavy stats loss after healing).
That would really only prevent the death of that soldier due to bleeding and prevent him from going mad in panic, never get him back into good shape for action in that same mission. And would waste a lot of the "medic" soldier's time. Pretty realistic.

That would take a LOT of work to code. lol
But would be very cool...  ;D
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 07:02:40 am by Another Guy »

Sirine

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2009, 07:23:18 am »


It do need lots of coding... especially if you are using 3D engine....


Offline Borsti67

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2009, 12:53:07 pm »
I wouldn't like to see the medikit as a another tactical thingy. Just keep it simple (automatic).
So using it on a stunned/inconscious soldier would give a chance of getting him up again.
Otherwise it heals an amount of damage plus morale.
In case "bleeding" will be implemented, the medikit should take care of this first, of course.

I like the idea of having morale/health/stun as 3 separate items. Or 4 with bleeding.

This could be done by some kind of "cost" for an action.
Let's say, the medikit can spend 10 "healing units" per usage. Restoring 1-10 hit points (if randomization is desired), [decrease bleeding by ? points], restore 1-10 morale, restore 1-10 stunning, try to "awaken" with a chance of ??% would all cost 1 "unit".

Moreover (I think I mentioned this before) I think the effect of medikits on a single soldier should decrease on multiple usages. It's far from realistic to get a heavy injured person upright and ready to fight more than once without having a clinic and doctors!

Offline homunculus

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2009, 07:44:39 pm »
wasn't medikit usage dependent on some stat some time ago?
like mind stat?

well, if medikit effect would depend on the health points % of the soldier that uses the medikit, then you might want to heal a wounded soldier with a healthy soldier.

Sirine

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2009, 05:08:03 am »
『Borsti67』: everything you mention here pretty much implemented in Xcom1. morale/health/stun/bleeding.
It just not yet been coded in UFO:AI. Perhaps you can help by doing some coding or maybe pseudocode?

『homunculus』: ? not getting what you means... sorry.

Offline Another Guy

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2009, 06:43:27 am »
I wouldn't like to see the medikit as a another tactical thingy. Just keep it simple (automatic).
So using it on a stunned/inconscious soldier would give a chance of getting him up again.
Otherwise it heals an amount of damage plus morale.
In case "bleeding" will be implemented, the medikit should take care of this first, of course.

I like the idea of having morale/health/stun as 3 separate items. Or 4 with bleeding.

This could be done by some kind of "cost" for an action.
Let's say, the medikit can spend 10 "healing units" per usage. Restoring 1-10 hit points (if randomization is desired), [decrease bleeding by ? points], restore 1-10 morale, restore 1-10 stunning, try to "awaken" with a chance of ??% would all cost 1 "unit".

Moreover (I think I mentioned this before) I think the effect of medikits on a single soldier should decrease on multiple usages. It's far from realistic to get a heavy injured person upright and ready to fight more than once without having a clinic and doctors!



I disagree. What makes the X-COM medikit realistic and perfect is the ausence of HP healing option. Yes, curing fatal wounds would restore a little HP, but that was about it. Never an expresive healing. The idea is just preventing death, not getting him in shape for combat again.
So no need to put medikit "ammo charges" or decreasing efficiency. It is not supose to be that efficient in first place. Period.
And random effects just don't make sense at all. In order to apply something to a soldier, the one using medikit should know what he's doing.

odie

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2009, 07:29:35 am »
Hmmmm,

I like the idea of medikit being sustainer of life.
This includes healing bleedings, restore up to maybe 1/3 of max hp (rest of it, pls go hospital), restoring good morale and restoring energy (if required).

And i also like the idea that medikits should be expendable - max of maybe 5 usages? Hmmmmm.

Offline Another Guy

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2009, 09:04:46 am »
mmm, on old X-Com, getting a badly wounded/stunned soldier back into consciousness with some morale for it not to panic and no bleeding would take like 10~15 charges for it alone. Lucky it was unlimited.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 09:10:29 am by Another Guy »

Offline Borsti67

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2009, 09:47:29 am »
@Sirine: The last time I coded was on an Amiga ;) - I don't believe I remember enough to achieve anything useful. :( If someone is going into this, I can try to help like above - making some kind of a formula out of the wishes...

@Another Guy: I never said, the medikit should do so... Just some ideas what (and how) it COULD do, if enough people think it's a good idea AND someone is going to code it... Regarding randomization: The effect of a treatment is never solely bound to the doctor's knowledge. Not only that he can make mistakes, but also some "luck" where the wound is and how damaged everything around is can make a large difference. Otherwise noone would die in a hospital. :D
Moreover, I haven't thought about a max usage (in total), but that idea sound interesting, too. B)

Anyway, what about this:
- EVERY usage gives some morale points
- the medikit heals bleeding in first place
- the next application(s) would decrease stunning effects
(- at last, up to 1/3 of HP would be restored)

So, the 1st usage of the medikit would stop bleeding and give back some morale (nothing else). In case the soldier isn't bleeding, it reduces the stunning points (how much needs to be discussed) and gives morale. If the patient is neither bleeding nor stunned, a small amount of health could be given...
But I agree with you, since the soldier can't die now unless attacked again, it's not necessary.

Offline PhilRoi

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2009, 10:45:54 am »
@Sirine: The last time I coded was on an Amiga ;) - I don't believe I remember enough to achieve anything useful. :( If someone is going into this, I can try to help like above - making some kind of a formula out of the wishes...

@Another Guy: I never said, the medikit should do so... Just some ideas what (and how) it COULD do, if enough people think it's a good idea AND someone is going to code it... Regarding randomization: The effect of a treatment is never solely bound to the doctor's knowledge. Not only that he can make mistakes, but also some "luck" where the wound is and how damaged everything around is can make a large difference. Otherwise noone would die in a hospital. :D
Moreover, I haven't thought about a max usage (in total), but that idea sound interesting, too. B)

Anyway, what about this:
- EVERY usage gives some morale points
- the medikit heals bleeding in first place
- the next application(s) would decrease stunning effects
(- at last, up to 1/3 of HP would be restored)

So, the 1st usage of the medikit would stop bleeding and give back some morale (nothing else). In case the soldier isn't bleeding, it reduces the stunning points (how much needs to be discussed) and gives morale. If the patient is neither bleeding nor stunned, a small amount of health could be given...
But I agree with you, since the soldier can't die now unless attacked again, it's not necessary.

this sounds fairly reasonable from an emergency medicine standpoint.  Med-kit is and always has been just a fancy first-aid kit.  Drugs and what-not to stabilize a critical patient to prevent death.  Ultimately, keeping your soldiers around from fight to fight is the goal.  Losing the experience that a soldier has and having to start over with a rookie is a real risk considering how slow soldiers are to get promoted currently.

you stop the immediate life threats(cure wounds/bleeding),  treat for shock (boost morale), and then you can take some time to neaten the bandages and make them capable of handling movement and such(restore a tiny amount of HP) so that the injured soldier can keep fighting or get back to the drop ship on his own.  bottom line is that the med-kit becomes something to keep soldiers alive from fight to fight and level up (huge long term benefit) as a strategic tool  instead of a tactical tool.

Offline Another Guy

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2009, 04:41:30 pm »
Yep, I think that is the idea.  ;)

Offline homunculus

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Re: How to use medikit ?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2009, 04:17:30 am »
[...]『homunculus』: ? not getting what you means... sorry.
in most part i was going along with those people who said that a wounded soldier would not be able to do first aid on himself properly.
because a wounded soldier is injured and in shock and bleeding and fumbling and half conscious.
therefore a wounded soldier should not be able to use medikit on himself.

but other people said that if there was no one around, a wounded soldier would still attempt to use medikit on himself, rather than just stay idle and die.

i was saying that there could be a compromise.
medikit effect could depend on the health % of the soldier that is using it.

if a severely wounded soldier tried to first aid himself, the medikit effect would be very low and he would loose many time units.
therefore it would be much more efficient to heal a wounded soldier with a healthy soldier.
because a healthy soldier can use a medikit more efficiently.

but as for my own opinion, i don't care if self-healing will be in the game.
i prefer that you need to team up your soldiers for more firepower, and also to be able to heal each other.
what i would see as gameplay improvement would be bleeding, but that was discussed in another thread and it could get bit complicated.