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Author Topic: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)  (Read 6405 times)

Offline Kaerius

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 05:07:34 pm »
Actually, now that the game is set to start in windows mode, it has the problem again, it only went away when I started in fullscreen and then changed to windowed mode.

I'm using Win XP SP2, and a Geforce 8800GTS 320MB.

Offline XaverXN

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2007, 07:18:23 pm »
Don't get me wrong, I like dark maps too. They create atmosphere.
The thing is, if its so damn dark that you can't see if there is an obstacle right in front of you or where the end of the map is, then gameplay is affected because you can't navigate and tactate (is that a word?) as good as in a day map anymore, and that just takes the fun out. Also, if walls and the ground are just black, maps are a bit boring because you can't see the texturework - thats actually the reason why the "very" bright screenshot is fine for me - its the first in which you can see the ground structure. If you want less color, fine, then lower the light sources in the buildings and not the ambient.

Technically my argument is the following: If ambient is dark but not rgb (0 0 0) then you can adjust it to your monitor by the gamma scale. If its (0 0 0) then at gamma 100% it's still 0 0 0. Isn't that correct?

Offline XaverXN

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2007, 09:37:37 pm »
For example: Please try to find your way up the stairs and duck on the top step. Or seek cover behind the small car.



For comparison: Day view.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 02:44:52 am by XaverXN »

Offline Popi

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2007, 01:19:42 pm »
Same here... it shows way too dark (under linux - KDE - nvidia GeForce)

I have tried to make same photo than BTAxis (map office06n)... look at the HUD its seen more or less the same... but map definitely not.


Offline BTAxis

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2007, 05:37:01 pm »
Looks like the rendering isn't the same for everyone. I think we should look into that first - it's pointless trying to balance out the lighting if it doesn't show up the same for everyone.

Offline XaverXN

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2007, 07:22:00 pm »
Well... agreed, but that takes far too long for 2.2 stable.
I say as a short-term solution we give a little ambient light so we don't have 50% of the players (I guess even more) hardly able to play night missions. As I said, with just a little light you can use the gamma scale to light up. And even then you can always use it to make it darker for yourself.

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2007, 07:34:31 pm »
It does look like you're not getting ANY of the sunlighting at all. I don't really understand how that's possible because as far as I know there's only one lightmap, and it's generated from the ambient lighting, sunlight and light entities. That screenshot does show the light from the light entities, but the light from the sunlight just isn't there.

It's fairly easy to add a little ambient lighting to all the maps. It's just a matter of changing
Code: [Select]
"ambient" "0 0 0"to
Code: [Select]
"ambient" "0.05 0.05 0.05"for example. XaverXN, popi, can you try doing this for one of your night maps and see if that makes it look okay for you?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 07:36:45 pm by BTAxis »

Offline XaverXN

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2007, 07:57:12 pm »
He? I'm pretty sure ambient=sunlight. So no ambient=no light at all=black pixels everywhere (because you can nearly forget the lighting from light sources).
Yes I could correct the ambient setting by hand, but what do you expect? It gets slightly brighter, of course. What are you trying to see?

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2007, 09:36:09 pm »
Ambient light isn't the same as sunlight.

Ambient lighting is applied everywhere, no matter where it is. Sunlight is applied only to surfaces that have a line of sight to the point of origin. In other words, sunlight casts shadows and ambient doesn't.

What I'm trying to see is whether the slight increase in ambient lighting will actually make the map brighter for you. You keep talking about "black pixels", but the whole point is that there ARE no black pixels - at least, not unless you have a dark corner inside a building somewhere. If they're black for you no matter what you do to your gamma, then you're not getting sunlight. If high gamma will show the pixels to you, then you're still getting the sunlight but rendering is just b0rked. And adding a little ambient light isn't going to help unless you add a LOT, and that kills the map for people whose rendering works as intended.

Offline XaverXN

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2007, 10:05:34 pm »
Ah, by sunlight you mean the "light" setting of the worldspawn, right?

Pushing the ambient setting to the value(s) you proposed really lights up the scene, as I expected. Even more than I expected... I can see everything now. The strange thing is, I took screenshots, and on those everything's dark again...

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2007, 10:08:28 pm »
I asked popi to do some testing. He says at light 30 and ambient 0 it looks okay for him, so I'm inclined to go with that, maybe erring on the safe side and do 35 or so.

Offline Popi

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2007, 10:33:43 pm »
Same office map... with 35 light, not too bright... but at least we can see something


Offline XaverXN

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2007, 10:42:52 pm »
I have to take back my last thread, wasn't aware the gamma' still up.

Yes, I've been some testing as well and I think I can live with light 35. It's still damn dark but then I can use the gamma to make a difference.
Thanks...

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Feedback (2.2 trunk - rev 11999 - 2007-09-26)
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2007, 01:48:15 am »
Lighting values changed in r12298.