UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: TrashMan on June 01, 2008, 09:52:12 pm
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Heya people.
I just downloaded this game and gave it a try, and boy was I impressed. I have no idea how I haven't heard about it sooner, since I like strategic/tactical games like this and I'm moving around the modding/gaming circles a lot.
Anyway, I'm a long-time modeler/modder and I was wondering if you guys need a hand (Is pecialize in non-organic stuff :P )and wanted to ask some questions:
1. Are all items/weapons already decided or is there room for more? (and if so, how is it decided what goes in?)
2. What are the usual polygon ranges and texture specifics for creatures/weapons/ map objects?
3. If I were to help around, where tobegin? What's currently needed the most?
Oh, here's a link to my Homepage with images of my past work, in case someone is interested.
HOMEPAGE (http://ferrium.org/trashman/TMLab/main.html)
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yes, we really need more modellers.
have a look here for priorities
http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/TODO
not sure about polycounts.
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We always need good modellers and texturers! All the technical information you want is available here (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Modelling).
There is a whole slew of needed models to be found here (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=2339.0) and a few more here (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=1302.0). These lists haven't been updated in a while so please ask me before you start anything, but most of the items are still open.
If you're specifically interested in doing small arms, the alien needler gun would be a good place to start. However, we're more in need of armour models and redesigns (particularly the current Nanocomposite Armour model, it's absolutely terrible and only used because we haven't been able to get anyone to make a replacement). If you can animate them as well that would be pure gold, and we could even ask you to make some whole new aliens. If not, the models would still be excellent to have.
Regards,
Winter
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Hmmm...haven't animated anything using skeletal animation (7 years of modeling and I still haven't looked into that...realyl ougt to do that. Doesn't sound complicated).
Well, I'll look into it...can I get the current armor model in some format...I work in 3DMAx and Truespace, ...it's always useful to have a reference
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Hmmm...haven't animated anything using skeletal animation (7 years of modeling and I still haven't looked into that...realyl ougt to do that. Doesn't sound complicated).
Well, I'll look into it...can I get the current armor model in some format...I work in 3DMAx and Truespace, ...it's always useful to have a reference
We use vertex animation, not skeletal animation. We can use a skeletal rig to convert to vertex animation, but we don't support skeletal animation itself because of the limits of the MD2 file format.
You can find all the models in SVN and even in your own game, particularly if you installed the source, although for some files like the Nanocomposite Armour we only have MD2s, because the source files were never made available to us (particularly old models from before the current team took over). Regardless, there should be MD2 import and export plugins available for your programs. Have a look around the interwebs.
Specific links to the Nanocomposite Armour:
http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk/base/models/soldiers/malemedium/
http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk/base/models/soldiers/femalemedium/
Regards,
Winter
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I think they are all *.md2
do not know if conversion is possible.
svn checkout is the best way to get the models.
http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Getting_the_source
they are in
trunk\base\models
If you do not want to use svn, or just want a quick look. the source came with the installer
UFOAI-2.2.1-dev\base\0models.pk3
rename the pk3 to zip. (or use 7zip, which just knows what a pk3 is).
extract
\models\soldiers\
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A SVN checkout! Goodie, alltouhg I don't need it ATM.
First I'm gonna read a bit on some of the specifics and start with some simpler items to warm up....and make a concept sketch or two
Mind if I do a few weapons or static map items? (got a few neat ideas)
Oh, b.t.w. - I can do some research images too.
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A SVN checkout! Goodie, alltouhg I don't need it ATM.
First I'm gonna read a bit on some of the specifics and start with some simpler items to warm up....and make a concept sketch or two
Mind if I do a few weapons or static map items? (got a few neat ideas)
Oh, b.t.w. - I can do some research images too.
Do all of it, we're happy to receive. Anything that isn't on the list, however, you should run by me first. We don't want anything that doesn't fit with the tone of the game and we'd rather save you from wasting your time and effort making stuff we're not going to use.
Also, please post screenshots before texturing so that the design team can make suggestions on the shape.
Regards,
Winter
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What's the size, format and color depth for those research images?
Oh, and as far as the weapon ideas go, I got "just" 3:
1. Coligun sniper - a.k.a. Obliderator
Railguns are efficient for assualt rifles (Bolter), but the constant strain the EM forces put on the rails causes them to vibrate and eventually pull apart, wearing them down and requireing regular replacements.
Coligun uses several ring shaped accelerators. While it requires more fine electronis and more capacitors (each ring has it's own), thus making it more power hungry, the EM force is distributed evenly, so no vibrations or deformations of the ring occur. As a result, the colgun is more accurate and capable of achieving greater muzzle velocity, but it's re-fire rate is slower.
*IMAGE PENDING*
2. Gattling assult hybrid - a.k.a. Vindicator
The bastard child of a minigun and assault rifle. Uses either caseless ammo or is energy-based. Lightweight and expensive as hell, but enables obscene ammounts of firepower.
the 3 rotating barrels can be locked in single-fire mode, or can rotate freeley to achive a full speed gattling burst.
concept:
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9370/vindicatorvq7.th.png) (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vindicatorvq7.png)
3. High-powered pistol of DOOM
Desert Eagle 99, Automag X, whatever you want to call it - this is the epitome of conventional sidearm deadliness. A huge gun with a huge catridge and a even bigger punch. When you positively, absolutely, definately wan your opposition deader than dead...or when you jsut want to show off!
concept:
something like this, alltough a bit more high-techy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/AMT_Automag_V.jpeg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/AMT_Automag_V.jpeg)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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1. Coligun sniper - a.k.a. Obliderator
Railguns are efficient for assualt rifles (Bolter), but the constant strain the EM forces put on the rails causes them to vibrate and eventually pull apart, wearing them down and requireing regular replacements.
Coligun uses several ring shaped accelerators. While it requires more fine electronis and more capacitors (each ring has it's own), thus making it more power hungry, the EM force is distributed evenly, so no vibrations or deformations of the ring occur. As a result, the colgun is more accurate and capable of achieving greater muzzle velocity, but it's re-fire rate is slower.
*IMAGE PENDING*
No objections to this one, if you make a model I'll write it up. It'll go in the research tree as a follow-up proposal after the Bolter is researched.
2. Gattling assult hybrid - a.k.a. Vindicator
The bastard child of a minigun and assault rifle. Uses either caseless ammo or is energy-based. Lightweight and expensive as hell, but enables obscene ammounts of firepower.
the 3 rotating barrels can be locked in single-fire mode, or can rotate freeley to achive a full speed gattling burst.
concept:
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9370/vindicatorvq7.th.png) (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vindicatorvq7.png)
All my arguments against a workable infantry gatling gun still stand, and this idea is even more complicated and unworkable since the barrels would take far too much time to spin up to speed to be effective as a rifle and there would still be no way to carry a decent amount of worthwhile ammo.
3. High-powered pistol of DOOM
Desert Eagle 99, Automag X, whatever you want to call it - this is the epitome of conventional sidearm deadliness. A huge gun with a huge catridge and a even bigger punch. When you positively, absolutely, definately wan your opposition deader than dead...or when you jsut want to show off!
concept:
something like this, alltough a bit more high-techy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/AMT_Automag_V.jpeg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/AMT_Automag_V.jpeg)
Hand cannons are strictly out. Any harsh words here are not directed at you but at the general tendency for poorly-researched gun wank in video games these days.
PHALANX is a military organisation, its weapons were hand-picked for quality and effectiveness against the alien forces, and it would never use weapons that are all but useless on a real battlefield. No soldier worth his salt would ever use one of these tiny-magazined, unreliable pieces of arse and recoil over a good rifle or SMG. They wouldn't even choose those things over a half-decent 9mm pistol, which is why there is no military in the world that employs them as a sidearm. Quoting from the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_caliber_handguns):
Despite being featured in many video games and action movies as the weapon of choice for some members of elite military and law enforcement units, the .50 caliber pistols' combination of heavy recoil and relatively low magazine capacity make these weapons a poor choice for tactical use.
Regards,
Winter
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Can I just point out that I think we do quite have enough human weapons already? There really isn't much point expanding the arsenal, because weapons would just end up being better versions of old weapons, and frankly that's what alien weaponry is supposed to be for.
I strongly suggest modeling and design effort goes into more alien weaponry, not human weaponry.
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No objections to this one, if you make a model I'll write it up. It'll go in the research tree as a follow-up proposal after the Bolter is researched.
I'll whip up a model in no-time. Stay tuned.
All my arguments against a workable infantry gattling gun still stand, and this idea is even more complicated and unworkable since the barrels would take far too much time to spin up to speed to be effective as a rifle and there would still be no way to carry a decent amount of worthwhile ammo.
Hm...wouldn't the time needed for the barrels to spin up depends on the way they spin? In other words, the acceleration and max RPM the engine that's spinning them can produce. Alternatively, the barrels can be put on "constant spin" during a mission, so the gun always fires at maximum rate.
Ammo is (and is suposed to be) the biggest problem. As far as I know, modeling the ammo backpack and animating it might be too much work.
If it's caseless or energy based, then that can explain how you can fit a lot of ammo in a single, large clip. It would still require controled bursts (like the Avenger cannon on the A10), probably electronicly controlled safeguards so you dont' spend too much ammo.
PHALANX is a military organisation, its weapons were hand-picked for quality and effectiveness against the alien forces, and it would never use weapons that are all but useless on a real battlefield. No soldier worth his salt would ever use one of these tiny-magazined, unreliable pieces of arse and recoil over a good rifle or SMG. They wouldn't even choose those things over a half-decent 9mm pistol, which is why there is no military in the world that employs them as a sidearm. Quoting from the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_caliber_handguns):
Thought as much. I know they arne't very realistic, but they are cool.
Of course, if you can somehow get around the huge recoil (a air coushin system like the one used in the VHS rifle could work. That rifle is almost recoil-less) and ammo storage (caseless ammo? bigger magazine?) problems, then it doesn't sounds as unrealistic anymore.
The game is supposed to take place in the future, so some advancements in already existing tech + miniaturization should be feasable. Just saying.
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Can I just point out that I think we do quite have enough human weapons already? There really isn't much point expanding the arsenal, because weapons would just end up being better versions of old weapons, and frankly that's what alien weaponry is supposed to be for.
I strongly suggest modeling and design effort goes into more alien weaponry, not human weaponry.
Yes, we really need more alien weaponry, and the human arsenal is just about full. Except for the coilgun sniper, we should declare a moratorium on all human weapons.
Regards,
Winter
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Just FYI - I got a md2 exporter, but I haven't found a importer yet...anyone got a .3ds file of max scene of the body armor?
Oh, I still need to know the size, format and color depth of the research images.
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For our model sources, check out the data_source branch in our SVN repository.
Concerning image format, I think we can work with jpg and tif, and maybe png too. You might want to store the source image (in psd or gimp format, whatever) in the data_source branch.
Color depth would be 24/32 bits, but I don't know about the size, sorry.
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Coilgun sniper rifle concept:
**IMAGE REMOVED**
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Coilgun sniper rifle concept:
(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2693/oblideratorqv9.th.png) (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblideratorqv9.png)
Good start, but don't leave the coils exposed. It may look 'cool' but it's contrary to function, easy to get random debris stuck in there, causing a jam or even a catastrophic failure during firing.
We live by the mantra 'form follows function'.
Regards,
Winter
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Well, I wanted to get away from the closed box look of most rifles.
I always wondered where the hell were rails on the Bolter..and why is it so sort (the longer the rails, the more powerful and accurate is the shot)
A rail and a coil and nothing more than shaped pieces of conductive metal, and as such are not prone to being easily damaged - not more than a metal casing anyway. An additional reason to have the coils out of the open is for faster cooling and to make the weapon more easy to recognize.
And what kind of random debris can get stuck in there, let alone cause catastrophic faliure?
Oh, I got two research items done... I made them in 256x256 resolution, since it seems as that's the right one.
*** REMOVED ON ACCOUNT OF SUCKING ***
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To be brutally honest with you, they look a bit amateurish, and kind-of miss the point of the research itself. The Alien Mind is about the aliens' thoughts, not their brains. Orbital UFO Activity is about shooting down a Carrier UFO -- the UFO image you've used isn't even remotely like anything in the game.
Also, the images we use are a lot larger than 256x256, or at least they will be once we finish the GUI redesign. In that event, such small source images would become too small and ultimately useless.
Regards,
Winter
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Duly noted.
The research names and their actual purpose differ a bit. Hehe..no wonder I missed the point.
Sooo...512x512?
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Le Obliderator coilgun...still needs some tweaking tough.
570 polys
1 256x256 texture.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Le Obliderator coilgun...still needs some tweaking tough.
Yes, it definitely still needs a barrel to protect the projectile path until it leaves the gun. Texture's not bad, though.
Regards,
Winter
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The barrel is actually one of the things I like how it turned out. I got some minor tweaks to do on hte texture, maybe adding a bit of tidbits to hte model itself, but I don't want to go over 600 polys.
You already have a dozen closed-barrel weapons. A bit of variety might be nice.
"Realism" (and I use the term loosely, since a lot of things depend on a whole lot of factors) is overrated anyway.
Doesn't the UFO:AI intro (the animation talk thread) mention ZERO-POINT energy? Talk about realism... ::)
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Let's not start with that, shall we? Or this will degenerate into one of those physics talks that I detest so much.
The deal is that Winter isn't going to accept the model without a closed barrel. Which would be a shame, because I rather like the look of the thing. How about adding a barrel inside of the rings, so it's closed but there's still some space between it and the support rails?
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Doesn't the UFO:AI intro (the animation talk thread) mention ZERO-POINT energy? Talk about realism... ::)
zero point energy is very real
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Let's not start with that, shall we? Or this will degenerate into one of those physics talks that I detest so much.
The deal is that Winter isn't going to accept the model without a closed barrel. Which would be a shame, because I rather like the look of the thing. How about adding a barrel inside of the rings, so it's closed but there's still some space between it and the support rails?
A barrel inside the coils is fine, that's actually what I had in mind but I phrased it poorly. My apologies.
Regards,
Winter
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This better?
(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/69/coilgun2be3.th.png) (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coilgun2be3.png)
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I like it, at least.
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I like it too, thumbs up.
Regards,
Winter
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So, should I send it over to someone for conversion? (it's quicker than me looking into how the model must be set-up and other stuff)
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Before that, you should indicate under what license you're releasing your work. GPL works for us, but I think Creative Commons is good too.
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Licensing?
I've never been too worried about that.
I generally always give my models freely away..as long as I'm given proper credit, it can be used or modified freely.
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The point is that there has to be some clarity about that for the project. People in Linux land get very nervous when something is supected of being improperly licensed.
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ERm....Creative Commons then.... I guess. I honestly don't care (or really know the real difference between the two systems)
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you can submit it to our patch tracker or send it to me via mail. please send every source file you created to create the model - every texture source and model source you have. And Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 is the license you should release it under.
Thanks for your work.
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Give me your e-mail and I'll send the model, the texture and the photoshop file. B.t.w. - any preference as far as model format goes? (if .3ds isn't preferred)
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Sent..
Oh, the vindicator is optimized and the mapping is coming along nicely.. ;D
I'm also making some sketches for the armor.
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Just FYI, you can also attach your files to a forum post.
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i've commited your work to svn now - we only need a md2 export now and then we can include the weapon in the game. thanks again
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Here's another little toy:
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8615/vindicator2kh6.th.png) (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vindicator2kh6.png)
The ammo box on the right currently looks like something that is energy-based, alltough that's easily changed (in case it uses caseless ammo)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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very nice looking, please send it via mail, too ;)
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Sent.. Could use some more tweaks on the texture tough, but I guess it's good to go.
I can write down the PHLANAX research and UFOPedia info if you need it.
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Sent.. Could use some more tweaks on the texture tough, but I guess it's good to go.
I can write down the PHLANAX research and UFOPedia info if you need it.
Thank you, but we probably won't use the item in the single-player campaign, since we have too many human weapons already.
Regards,
Winter
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Too much weapons? That's an oxymoron... :)
Mm...reminds me of 1.13 MOD for Jagged Alliance 2 ... soooooooooooo many weapons... Tons of Gunz.... 200 at least.. yeah, that WAS a bit too much (not much difference between guns). The trick is to have guns with personality. So far I notices ammo is not a problem in the game. I rarely even reload once during a mission.
So a devastating, expensive, ammo-hungry weapon might fit the bill.
But I digress. I got a md2 importer but it doesn't work..I'll keep looking..
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I think its only the human weapons winter mentioned not needing more of.
I think we could do with a few new alien weapons? :)
Steve
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for mulitplayer it's fine to have more weapons. But for singleplayer it's up to winter to include new ones. And as he said, alien weapons are still needed (though you have to ask him for specs)
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ah btw. if you model weapons, please also model the ammo boxes
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they are exported now and are in our svn - if someone wants to create the ufo script values for the new weapons.... (but only for multiplayer - at least the xaw5 weapon - not sure about the recoil weapon)
we need entries in equipment.ufo and weapon_*.ufo as well as research.ufo
the best would be to copy the chaingun and search the ufo script files for the chaingun entries - (because this weapon is multiplayer only, too)
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ah btw. if you model weapons, please also model the ammo boxes
The Coilgun uses the same ammo as the bolter.
Teh vindicator ammo Box is part of the weapons model.
It's a 2 minute job to detach it and save is as a separate model...hmm..alltough It uses the 256x256 texture of the weapon for the ammo box too (currently). Shouldn't be a problem tough, since you won't have the ammo and not the weapon on screen anyway.
So, the alien needler gun is needed next.. Fires big needles, sleek weapon, big ammo box? O.k., I'm on it! Aliens needs some luv too :D .. After all, veriety is the spice of life! ;)
EDIT: Are the weapons exported and scaled properly?
If so, I'll make a test run of them..give them some basic stats and descriptions. Jsut got to get hooked up to the SVN and D/L them back :)
Bloody hell, which is the latest SVN branch? ???
EDIT2: Hm.. I just noticed the weapon isn't exported to md2. Looks like I'll have to do it..I gotta look into proper scaling, orientation and other exportation specifics first...
EDIT3:
There aren't any good instruction on weapon exporting...Don't weapons need to be properly aligned and scaled? There has to be some way to mark where the weapon should be help (grip)
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The Coilgun uses the same ammo as the bolter.
Ok, then we can just copy the model
Teh vindicator ammo Box is part of the weapons model.
It's a 2 minute job to detach it and save is as a separate model...hmm..alltough It uses the 256x256 texture of the weapon for the ammo box too (currently). Shouldn't be a problem tough, since you won't have the ammo and not the weapon on screen anyway.
Ok, then please send the model as soon as you have it, then i can export it.
So, the alien needler gun is needed next.. Fires big needles, sleek weapon, big ammo box? O.k., I'm on it! Aliens needs some luv too :D .. After all, veriety is the spice of life! ;)
That's something where only winter and btaxis can help you with - i don't know.
EDIT: Are the weapons exported and scaled properly?
If so, I'll make a test run of them..give them some basic stats and descriptions. Jsut got to get hooked up to the SVN and D/L them back :)
They are exported and scaled properly (or at least should be - i haven't tested them in-game) - see http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai?view=rev&revision=17018
Bloody hell, which is the latest SVN branch? ???
It's trunk
EDIT2: Hm.. I just noticed the weapon isn't exported to md2. Looks like I'll have to do it..I gotta look into proper scaling, orientation and other exportation specifics first...
See the link above - they are exported
EDIT3:
There aren't any good instruction on weapon exporting...Don't weapons need to be properly aligned and scaled? There has to be some way to mark where the weapon should be help (grip)
What do you need to export them? Maybe we can update the wiki article to show all the relevant information.
Basically i import existing models and scale the new weapon models like the old one. The orientation of the weapons was correct (the 3ds files you sent)
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aha..thanks for clarifiying that..
So, basicely, the axis/normal location defines where the gun is grabbed?
PS
I don't know how Winter wants the coilgun to work ammo wise. My initial suggestion was that it uses the same ammo (not just the model - exactly the same ammo) as the bolter, since coilguns and railguns can fire the same ammo (a tungsten or some other material round).
The coilgun just fires it faster, slower and more accurate.
OR, you could make a new ammo type. Just re-color (new texture) the current bolter ammo. You get a new, bigger round + bigger power pack.
I'll make a ammo box for the vindicator ASAP...erm..you want me to make a small texture for it, or is it cool if is uses the 256x256 one?
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you can use the weapon texture, too then we don't have to load two different textures for the same thing
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A quick sketch....crappy quality I know...scanner is acting up lately.
(http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/2557/t004mc7.th.jpg) (http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t004mc7.jpg)
I'm almost done with the XAW95 ammo box. Texturing is a piece of cake, so I'll leave the decision on texture to you Mattn. Should I make a new, smaller texture for the ammo box (it's 5 minutes of work, tops)?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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as i said - not needed - if we can use the same texture but only different coordinates that would be less memory consuming, because we don't have to load two textures.
The sketch is cool - it would be nice if you would release your sketches under creative commons, too. then we could commit them to our svn, too (maybe they will be useful later, too)
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The Coilgun uses the same ammo as the bolter.
Is this ok? AFAIR bolter ammo contains the rails too but coilgun doesn't need them. Bolter's ammo shouldn't fit in the coilgun. However the model can be the base of the coilgun's.
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AFAIR bolter ammo contains the rails too but coilgun doesn't need them. Bolter's ammo shouldn't fit in the coilgun. However the model can be the base of the coilgun's.
Hm.. I looked to me like one long slug + energy catridge/power cell... that long thing is the rail? Allrighty then, I'll make a 5 big slug + power cell catridge for it.
b.t.w. - how does one get the items in-game? I added the coilgun to the human weapons, to the research and to the equipment...started a new game - nuttin!
Oh, and how does one open those .mo files (in the i18n folder). One has to add proper descriptions, but I can't make heads or tails of those files. The only thing that somewhat opens them is Wordpad but the whole top is gibberish.
The sketch is cool - it would be nice if you would release your sketches under creative commons, too. then we could commit them to our svn, too (maybe they will be useful later, too)
Allright, consider all my sketches CC licensed then. The armor in the bottom is the begining of the heavier armor (medium?)
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Hm.. I looked to me like one long slug + energy catridge/power cell... that long thing is the rail? Allrighty then, I'll make a 5 big slug + power cell catridge for it.
For the coilgun, we'd like it to have only a single shot magazine and battery, to better differentiate it from the other sniper weapons and the Bolter.
b.t.w. - how does one get the items in-game? I added the coilgun to the human weapons, to the research and to the equipment...started a new game - nuttin!
Oh, and how does one open those .mo files (in the i18n folder). One has to add proper descriptions, but I can't make heads or tails of those files. The only thing that somewhat opens them is Wordpad but the whole top is gibberish.
Don't try adding items yourself, we do that for any models you send in, and we'll handle writeups for them too if we're including them in the single-player campaign.
Allright, consider all my sketches CC licensed then. The armor in the bottom is the begining of the heavier armor (medium?)
Eh?
Regards,
Winter
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1 might be too little....2-3... after all, ti's just a slug, it doesn't take that much space
As far as items - I'm adding them them for testing purposes and for my hearts content :P I like modding and fiddling with stuff...
And since I generally am not a big multiplayer player, I want to see some of the multiplayer exclusive stuff in the singleplayer for me...
Don't tell me that weapons availability is hardcoded????
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Don't tell me that weapons availability is hardcoded????
No, it's in the equipment.ufo file - you have to add it to the market, the player equipment or the alien equipment, then you can buy it, equip it right from the start or collect it from aliens you killed while looting the battlefield.
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1 might be too little....2-3... after all, ti's just a slug, it doesn't take that much space
The battery pack for the coilgun does, however. Coilguns require more power than railguns such as the Bolter, and a sniper variant would have to fire a heavier slug quite a lot faster due to the ranges involved and the need for a one-shot kill.
That's why we want 1 round per magazine for this one.
Regards,
Winter
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You sure? It will end up like a bazooka..
I thought you wanted another weapon for the sniper skill - a more powerful version of the standard sniper rifle (50% -100% more damage, big, clunky magazine...sniper rifle has 5 bullets IIRC)
I already modeled a set of external capacitors on the coilgun, and the central body is big enough to hold a big power cell.
In fact, my plan was to make the magazine look like a U shaped power cell with 2 or3 bolts in the center - and it's inserted into the bottom of the rifle.
Allright, it's your call - I'll await your final decision before I model in the number of bolts in the magazine.
and can I get a confirmation of what the needler gun needs to look like before I begin modeling it?
EDIT:
b.t.w - this is my current testing setup for hte Coilgun (currently uses bolter ammo)
//========================
// COILGUN
//========================
item coilgun
{
name "_Coilgun"
model weapons/coilgun/coilgun
weapon true
type rifle
animationindex 1
holdtwohanded false
firetwohanded true
shape "0 0 5 2"
center "9 0 3"
scale 1.05
ammo 3
reload 10
price 9000
size 30
buytype weap_pri
}
item bolterrifle_ammo
{
name "_Bolter Rifle Magazine"
model weapons/bolterrifle/bolterrifle_clip
type ammo
animationindex 0
shape "0 0 1 2"
center "0 0 0"
scale 1.15
price 85
size 5
buytype weap_pri
dmgtype normal
weapon_mod sniper
{
firedef
{
name "_Snap Shot"
skill sniper
projtl bolter
impact bolterImpact
hitbody null
firesnd weapons/bolter2
speed 0
spread "0.9 0.9"
crouch 0.3
range 250
shots 1
ammo 1
time 12
damage "160 0"
dmgweight normal_heavy
reaction true
}
firedef
{
name "_Aimed Shot"
skill sniper
projtl bolter
impact bolterImpact
hitbody null
firesnd weapons/bolter2
speed 0
spread "0.5 0.5"
crouch 0.3
range 250
shots 1
ammo 1
time 18
damage "160 0"
dmgweight normal_heavy
}
firedef
{
name "_Headshot"
skill sniper
projtl bolter
impact bolterImpact
hitbody null
firesnd weapons/bolter2
speed 0
spread "0.8 0.8"
crouch 0.3
range 250
shots 1
ammo 1
time 24
damage "200 0"
dmgweight normal_heavy
}
}
}
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Ammo box for the XAW95 is done. I also tweaked the texture a bit.. I'll send it over later.
Ammo for the coilgun looks ATM like this:
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8186/coilgunammonv1.th.png) (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coilgunammonv1.png)
I could update the coilgun with the ammo box sticking from the bottom (in front of the grip, as seen on the pic)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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doesn't the forum attach feature work for you? it would be nicer to have it here.
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You mean insert FTP link? I guess I can upload the stuff..
Oh, I finally got the importer working...trying to get the exporter working now :)
EDIT
***************
Drat! Can't get any of the exporter working....and the coilgun you exported - it won't open it's md2 (opens other game models)
Here are the modified files - everything is slightly updated, and both model have ammo boxes.
http://ferrium.org/trashman/Stuff/UFO/coilgun.rar (http://ferrium.org/trashman/Stuff/UFO/coilgun.rar)
http://ferrium.org/trashman/Stuff/UFO/vindicator.rar (http://ferrium.org/trashman/Stuff/UFO/vindicator.rar)
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No, he meant attach to the forum. When you make a post there's an attach button at the bottom. Use that. That way the files are sent to the forum's server, so we aren't reliant on external servers.
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Missed that...no matter, the files are up.
I'm working on the needler gun ATM and am looking at the nanocomposite armor md2.
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Needler Gun:
(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3329/needlergunfy9.th.jpg) (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergunfy9.jpg)
EDIT:
I edited the equipment file but the guns still don't show up...Hm..once you extract the files into proper directories, they take precedence over the .pk3 compressed files, right?
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Yes, they should.
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So why doesn't it work...
I've put the models and textures in the UFO/base/0models/weapons/coilgun/
I edited the equipment, weapons_human, research and researched_list (all located in UFO/bbase/0ufos/
Hmmmmm...
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Try taking the "0" (the zero) out of the folder name.
I'm not positive 100% that that's what the issue is, but I'm pretty sure that would fix the problem.
EDIT (clarification): In other words, "models" instead of "0models" if it is in regular folders and not zipped up into a pk3.
I found this issue myself when I played around with some of the pk3 files with my own copy of the game, and also running the SVN version (which has regular files and not pk3s) - the SVN folders do not have the zeros.
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Needler Gun:
(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3329/needlergunfy9.th.jpg) (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergunfy9.jpg)
I like the general shape of it, it's interesting, but there are a couple of points that need addressing.
1. There doesn't seem to be a straight path between the magazine feed and the muzzle. For a high-speed automatic weapon like the Needler that would be pretty vital. There can't be a bend or obstruction anywhere along the barrel.
2. A ring-shaped magazine? Makes no sense when you could have a drum with five times as much ammo in the same volume of space, or a box with an equal amount of ammo in a third of the volume. If you really want to be creative with the magazine, make it a trapezium, like a triangle-shaped cylinder (but not a pyramid).
3. Smaller anatomy issues. There's no front handguard (and thus nowhere to hold the weapon) except right up at the muzzle, requiring very very long arms to hold it comfortably; the grip is located in an awkward position right at the very back; and there's no buttstock to take the not-insignificant recoil. I'd recommend shortening the front and redesigning the rear part of the weapon to become its own buttstock with integrated grip. Another nice touch would be an alien sniper scope attached to the side.
Regards,
Winter
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Allright..
B.t.w. - I got the exporter to work and I exported all the items.
Both the XAW95 and the Coilgun are scaled properly and work in-game... Only the textures don't show up, they are red. Some converter error? Or does the jpg have to have very specific settings?
@Winter:
1. Actually, the lower tube was supposed to be the main barrel :P
I'll make it a big bigger...
2. Noted, it will be different.
3. Also noted. Will fix this. Maybe make the gun less...fat?
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I was just thinking, a simple ring-shaped clip like that can probably offer very high fire rates, quick reloading of new clips, linkless feed, and little manipulation of the round between the drum and the chamber. If the propulsion method is in the gun (magnetic or otherwise), then the needles will probably be quite thin and might even fit 50 or more rounds inside that ring magazine anyway. The system will also probably be quite simple and thus robust and durable. Artistically, it looks exotic and unique from human technology.
Another idea is to just thicken the ring, increasing the number of rounds that can fit in, but leave the center open. I don't think a full drum would offer five times the ammunition capacity. By my math, a ring with thickness 20% of its radius has about 1/3 the area (35.9%) of a full disk (ie: its total diameter is 10 units, and the ring is only 1 unit thick, leaving an inner diameter of 8 units). That looks close to what he has already. Doubling the thickness from there doubles the area to about 2/3 (64%). Going on to 3x, 4x, and 5x (solid disk) gives the percentages of 84%, 96%, and 100%. (A spring-loaded drum magazine doesn't use the center core anyways: http://www.minsky.com/portfoli/ammo2.jpg)
So the ring magazine might not be all that bad. Doubling the thickness would probably be the best balance between increasing capacity and keeping the advantages of such a system.
About the barrel: an alternative to enlarging it is to flatten or thin the top support, making it look less like a barrel. Maybe have the main ellipsoid shape end instead of extending into a tube, and have a few thin strips or rods extending out as supports instead of one thick tube.
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Both the XAW95 and the Coilgun are scaled properly and work in-game... Only the textures don't show up, they are red. Some converter error? Or does the jpg have to have very specific settings?
if the texture name is xaw5.jpg (which is the name we are using in the svn) the skin path should be .xaw5
Note the dot at the first position - and without extension.
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@Winter:
1. Actually, the lower tube was supposed to be the main barrel :P
I'll make it a big bigger...
2. Noted, it will be different.
3. Also noted. Will fix this. Maybe make the gun less...fat?
Oh, I do understand that the lower tube was the barrel. My point is that if you look closely at the muzzle block, it comes out at the very bottom where the little bevelling is and it appears as if the bevelling obscures part of the muzzle. It ought to come out at least a little higher since it's the only bit where projectiles will actually be emerging. I don't mind it being lower than centre, which goes against human tradition, as long as it's got a clear line from magazine to target.
Making it less fat is a good idea, I think. Would make it look a little less comical and more threatening.
I was just thinking, a simple ring-shaped clip like that can probably offer very high fire rates, quick reloading of new clips, linkless feed, and little manipulation of the round between the drum and the chamber. If the propulsion method is in the gun (magnetic or otherwise), then the needles will probably be quite thin and might even fit 50 or more rounds inside that ring magazine anyway. The system will also probably be quite simple and thus robust and durable. Artistically, it looks exotic and unique from human technology.
Another idea is to just thicken the ring, increasing the number of rounds that can fit in, but leave the center open. I don't think a full drum would offer five times the ammunition capacity. By my math, a ring with thickness 20% of its radius has about 1/3 the area (35.9%) of a full disk (ie: its total diameter is 10 units, and the ring is only 1 unit thick, leaving an inner diameter of 8 units). That looks close to what he has already. Doubling the thickness from there doubles the area to about 2/3 (64%). Going on to 3x, 4x, and 5x (solid disk) gives the percentages of 84%, 96%, and 100%. (A spring-loaded drum magazine doesn't use the center core anyways: http://www.minsky.com/portfoli/ammo2.jpg)
So the ring magazine might not be all that bad. Doubling the thickness would probably be the best balance between increasing capacity and keeping the advantages of such a system.
My main concern about a ring magazine over a box mag is that it would be very difficult to carry additional mags. Also, the mag doesn't need to be spring-loaded, which seems pretty low-tech for the aliens and wouldn't be very effective for something with only millimetre thickness. It would most probably load the needles either on a belt, by magnetism, or even by vacuum.
About the barrel: an alternative to enlarging it is to flatten or thin the top support, making it look less like a barrel. Maybe have the main ellipsoid shape end instead of extending into a tube, and have a few thin strips or rods extending out as supports instead of one thick tube.
The top support isn't the issue, I don't mind it. It's the lower tube where the magazine comes in that's the barrel.
Regards,
Winter
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if the texture name is xaw5.jpg (which is the name we are using in the svn) the skin path should be .xaw5
Note the dot at the first position - and without extension.
Skin path? Where is that specified? I've only seen the model path entry.
Speaking of which, before exporting from 3DMax to md2, is there something else I need to do? Maybe apply a vertex paint modifier? Add a node with a specific name? I checked hte wiki but couldn't find any instructions...
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Needler gun, version 2:
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7144/needlergun2qm5.th.jpg) (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergun2qm5.jpg)
Sketch of another armor set:
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7160/t005bc2.th.jpg) (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t005bc2.jpg)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Trashman, I'm pretty much staying out of this...since I have not one iota of skill in helping to get this game more polished. So my 2 cents are hardly relevant, but I have one question.
Is the armor your sketching here, for the next armor up...the "powered armor", that as of yet is not in the game, or just a remake of the existing in-game armor that someone said ( Winter? ) needs remodeling?
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We do have a powered armour. Not an upgraded version of it though.
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Oh sorry BT, I've only played 2.2.1 and never saw any...so I was unaware of that...sorry for the ignorance on my part.
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I'm pretty much sketching various armors... both sketches aren't really powered*...more like medium and heavy armor..or light and medium (depends if you count the starting Combat Armor as light or not)
Believe me, If I was sketching a full powered armor, you'd know...cause it would probably resemble the terminator armor from WH40K. ;D
*by powered I mean armor that fully covers whole body, makes a sealed unit and uses servos to increase combat performance.
By that logic even the FFW armor concept for 2020 wouldn't quite fit into that category (uses a muscle-mimicing fabric, not servos..it only has mechanichal enhancements on legs)
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Our powered armour isn't in 2.2.1. I don't think it's even really in 2.3 yet. Animation issues, I believe.
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If anyone here has ever played Riddick Escape from Butchers Bay...there are 2 enclosed powered armors that are just awesome. Not sure if either of these or anything similar to them would even fit here but...
And yes TM, fully enclosed powered armor is what I was referencing...like you just wrote about :) Anyhow was just curious...be very nice when / if such is implemented at some point. Sounds like there are some issues though, since BT just said so...back to forum lurking. ;D
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Needler gun, version 2:
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7144/needlergun2qm5.th.jpg) (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergun2qm5.jpg)
I thought I'd posted this earlier, but apparently it got swallowed by the forum. Anyway!
I'm happy with this version, the shape looks much nastier and more credible. The only things I'd add are optional, those being a sniper scope projecting out from the side and a small bipod to support the gun and protect the magazine when lying prone.
Looking forward to seeing what you do with the texture!
Regards,
Winter
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A sniper scope and a bipod..OK.
Hm...not really getting any inspiration with the texture...And base color you want it to be?
Plasma guns are bluish, particle cannons are green..maybe purple? Pink? Red?
EDIT:
Oh yeah, someone help me out with getting the guns 100% working. Texture is still missing (shows up red)..and how is the fire point (muzzle) defined?
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..and how is the fire point (muzzle) defined?
currently this is a cvar is the same for every weapon. the cvar is: sv_shot_origin
we should change this someday to be in the weapon definition
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A sniper scope and a bipod..OK.
Hm...not really getting any inspiration with the texture...And base color you want it to be?
Plasma guns are bluish, particle cannons are green..maybe purple? Pink? Red?
A reddish colour scheme sounds good to me, as long as the overall texture stays in keeping with the general alien aesthetic.
Regards,
Winter
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currently this is a cvar is the same for every weapon. the cvar is: sv_shot_origin
we should change this someday to be in the weapon definition
ERm... can you elaborate on that?
How do I fix the texture problem and how do I set up the weapon muzzle?
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You don't set up the muzzle. That's what mattn meant when he said it should be moved to the weapon definition. Right now, you shouldn't bother with it. It may not look absolutely perfect ingame, but that's something to be dealt with later.
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Ok...what about the texture problem?
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ERm... can you elaborate on that?
How do I fix the texture problem and how do I set up the weapon muzzle?
you can't fix the weapon muzzle right now - it's a fixed value which is the same for every weapon (a cvar)
the texture problem?
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His texture doesn't show up in the game. He posted about that earlier. You answered that, but apparently it didn't help him.
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To explain a bit clearer.
I scaled and mapped the gun model in 3D Max.. I used the MD2/TAG exporter script that comes with the game.
In 3D Max the gun is textures with the xaw95.jpg...
I convert the gun to md2 - gun is read, no texture. (all Md2 export options are checked except for unified bounding box..seems to mess up the model)
You mentioned skins.. I tried convering again with the texture path put into the skins box..still red
EDIT: Nevermind, just figured it out! :)
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OH YEEEEAH!
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1295/ingame1oz1.th.jpg) (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ingame1oz1.jpg)
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6177/ingame2ci4.th.jpg) (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ingame2ci4.jpg)
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Progress report:
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1447/needlergun3yl3.th.jpg) (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergun3yl3.jpg)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I assume the lines are only there now and won't show up when it's finished?
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looks nice - if you have them working, submit them to me, please.
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Progress report:
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1447/needlergun3yl3.th.jpg) (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergun3yl3.jpg)
A purple-pink gun? That's not red. :P
Also, the texture is not at all like our current alien weapons/technology, visually. We really want the alien arsenal to have a coherent aesthetic. Our texturers tend to make creative use of the alien materials texture and use greebles similar to those on other models. A better idea would be to emphasise the needler's redness in the greebles rather than having the aliens paint the weapon body vaguely red for no real reason.
Also, you don't have to paint coils around the barrel. The way I'm envisioning it, the visible part of the barrel would be just a cylinder of electronics -- the inside of the barrel will be lined completely with intelligent electromagnetic material that takes the place of coils or rails for much less power use.
Regards,
Winter
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This is just the begining of the texture....pink is funny :P
Maybe I should go for a more traditional greenish/brownish hue?
Yeah, this is till early WIP - you can notice it in the lack of detail and the white grid to help make the texture. I'm kinda keen on keeping the texture on the barrel tough..looks neat.. would look even neater if it could be animated or if it glowed...Hmm...does the engine support glowmaps?
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Hmm...does the engine support glowmaps?
No, (not yet - let's see what the time gives us)
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how the model coming along? can you send me the model + skin (even if work-in-progress) please? i would like to see it in-game ;)
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I've been testing something else (some other project)..sry. :-[ Should have been finished by now.. I'll whip up something to send you a bit later.
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SENT.
The rar includes the .3ds model, photoshop .pds file, bmp texture and converted and scaled .md2 models for the gun and ammo.
EDIT:
Oh dang, I forgot to add the sniper scope...bipod is there tough.
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thank you very much - it's included in trunk now, too
the script values could still need some tweaks - but they are useable already.
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Ya I know...they need a bit more playtesting for balancing.
Weapons don'nt have any research description nor standard descrptions.
Haven't figured out how to put them in yet (how do you open the .mo files anyway?)
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Winter and myself will handle that part. No need for you to spend time on that. Also, the mo files are generated from the wiki. All source text goes there.
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Hrm...well, that makes making modification for my own amusement a bit more difficult...:P
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Weapons don'nt have any research description nor standard descrptions.
Haven't figured out how to put them in yet (how do you open the .mo files anyway?)
The descriptions are in the wiki at http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/List_of_msgid/Equipment
You can't edit the mo files, but you have to edit the po files - see http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Translating
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Hrm...well, that makes making modification for my own amusement a bit more difficult...:P
you can always edit the po files and compile the language files yourself (make lang for linux, autobuild for windows with code::blocks). just the official texts go into the wiki - what you are doing locally for your own pleasure...
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Heh..all I wanted was to add descriptions for the coilgun and vindicator. Now I'm not sure Iwant to bother with that. Alltough it does look ugly to see empty research proposlas/report.
NWM...is the current Needler gun to your liking?
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Winter has to vet this kind of thing first. Ensures consistent style.
If you want to get involved with this, perhaps you could chat to him on IRC.
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Well, here's the image of the current gun:
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7241/needlergun4tb9.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergun4tb9.jpg)
B.t.w. - what else needs doing? Should I start experimenting with armors?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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On the topic of armour, we need the human stuff, but also the Shevaar model wearing armour. And possibly all the aliens wearing a heavy kind of armour (they only get two suits right now). There's plenty of work to do in that area.
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Well, here's the image of the current gun:
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7241/needlergun4tb9.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=needlergun4tb9.jpg)
I like it! It's got that alien quality to it that we want, but still looks enough like a gun to imply functionality and danger. I'm happy to put that into the game as it is (possibly adding a sniper scope later, separately, as a weapon add-on).
B.t.w. - what else needs doing? Should I start experimenting with armors?
Armours are definitely a big big thing. In all the time I've been with this project, only one armour model has been contributed.
Aircraft will become a priority later on, but right now it's armour, armour, armour.
Regards,
Winter
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Armor it is then ;D
*btw - I still haven't given up on the portable gatt. gun. I'll get you over to my side of thinking...eventually ;)
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yes, armours would be very cool - i agree. the women models need heavy armour, we need the "hovering" armour (wilminator is currently working on the pathfinding code for jet-packs)
*btw - I still haven't given up on the portable gatt. gun. I'll get you over to my side of thinking...eventually ;)
Keep in mind, that even if Winter and BTAxis don't want to include it into the singleplayer campaign, that i would be happy to include more weapons for the multiplayer stuff. All you have to deliver is the model and maybe a basic item+tech definition
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oh btw. i'm not sure which software you are using - but you should have a look into http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/data_source/models/characters - there are bip files and character source files for 3dsmax
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I use a mix of 3D Max 7.0 and Truespace 5.1 .. importing/exporting as needed. It depends on what I'm doing. I generally make models in Truespace and then import into Max for refinement and texturing, altough sometimes I make the whole thing in Max..depends :P
So, just to make sure there aren't any misunderstandings...what we need is:
1. New nanotube armor (or whatever the current one is called) - light, medium and heavy?
2. Human flying armor (with jetpack? more versions?)
3. power armor
4. adv. power armor
5. Anything else? Maybe a somewhat better version of the normal combat armor?
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No, we do have a model for the power armour already. See also this (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=1894.0) thread.
And as I pointed out before, we also need aliens in armour.
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Pretty hard to "research" alien armors, too eventually turn into human versions...if there is no alien armor in game being worn by the aliens for us to research ROFL :)
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I could make something like dis too:
http://www.tacticalwarfightergear.com/graphics/2020prototype.jpg
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The Ortnoks and the Tamans have armoured versions of the model.
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I could make something like dis too:
http://www.tacticalwarfightergear.com/graphics/2020prototype.jpg
We already have workable light body armours. What we need is, in order of importance:
Alien-inspired medium human armour (Nanocomposite Armour)
Shevaar models in light and medium armour similar to what the Tamans and Ortnoks wear
Alien heavy armour for all the races
Alien-inspired heavy human armour
Alien-inspired jetpack human armour (armoured somewhere between medium and heavy)
Regards,
Winter
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Noted. I'll churn out something.
Say, what's the polycount limit on the suits?
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round about 1000 +- a few hundrets
but keep in mind to model the body and the head seperate (or cut them afterwards)
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just ~ 1000? Not much, but I guess I'll have to make due :P
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Say, anyone got 3D Max files for the human armors?
I like to hove some reference when I work.. Exporting them from Md2 just puts them in some whacky curled up position.
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Yeah, I know I'm lazy...just can't seem to get into the modding/modeling mood lately
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yeah, I know I'm lazy...just can't seem to get into the modding/modeling mood lately
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4778/armor1cg0.th.jpg) (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armor1cg0.jpg)
Just to clarify, we don't want massive shoulder pads, tiny thin waists or separate boots/bracers like in the awful current model. Nothing exaggerated, cartoony or overtly unrealistic. The armour should be a proper coherent suit based around a protective torso. It doesn't necessarily need to cover every square inch of the body in armour, but conversely it can't have separate bits that aren't connected to the torso (like the current Nanocomposite Armour's bracers and boots).
I should've explained this earlier, I've just done it so many times already that I forget you haven't been around that long. My apologies.
Regards,
Winter
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Say, anyone got 3D Max files for the human armors?
I like to hove some reference when I work.. Exporting them from Md2 just puts them in some whacky curled up position.
yes, they are all in the data_source repository - http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/data_source/models/characters/rastaman_bey/
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K...just FYI - those are not supposed to be you standard shoulderpads.. more like what those veteran korean troops in Cryisi had. For reference look at the first sketch I posted.
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K...just FYI - those are not supposed to be you standard shoulderpads.. more like what those veteran korean troops in Cryisi had. For reference look at the first sketch I posted.
If this (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t005bc2.jpg) is the sketch you mean, I'm afraid it doesn't do it for me. The torso and thighs are alright but the boots and shoulder pads turn it into some japanese mecha-type thing. No disrespect to your art, but the japanese look is totally inappropriate for UFO:A.
Regards,
Winter
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Nah, that's the concept for the jump suit. It's supposed to have big thrusters on the back (think space marine assault troops) and aditional smaller thrusters on the legs (for stabilisation and flight control).. Hence the leg having a jap. mecha-look
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What you are describing is totally like the starship troopers anime series from 1988:
(http://www.gearsonline.net/series/starship+troopers/troopers-intro.gif)
More info here:
http://images.google.es/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gearsonline.net/series/starship%2Btroopers/troopers-intro.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.gearsonline.net/series/starship%2Btroopers/&h=300&w=426&sz=26&hl=es&start=5&um=1&tbnid=_3ZIbu33qRfy-M:&tbnh=89&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dstarship%2Btroopers%2Bmanga%26um%3D1%26hl%3Des%26sa%3DN
Why dont you do something alike (anyway i think that studio wont care much even if you copy it to the inch).
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Some screens showing more "flesh":
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7894/bscap001he9.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bscap001he9.jpg)(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/9388/bscap000aw6.th.jpg) (http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bscap000aw6.jpg)
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5852/bscap002us6.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bscap002us6.jpg)(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/250/bscap003rg3.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bscap003rg3.jpg)
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Why dont you do something alike (anyway i think that studio wont care much even if you copy it to the inch).
The powers that be in this project will. Don't underestimate the tenacity of common license-righteous open source fundamentalists. In groups.
Besides, it'd look bad if we ripped off everything.
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Ugly and anime. One of worst design for this game.
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Its just something to use as reference, of course the model should be more western taste to match the game style and somewhat more bulky.
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At first it should be more real, all other should be at next.
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Bombs ahoy!
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6871/bombyh7.th.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bombyh7.jpg)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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By the way, you can just attach screenshots like that to the forum.
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Nice job! However we may need a timed bomb not a remote controlled, but I'm not sure. (Hmm.. Have I read this somewhere or just thought :) )
To tell you the truth I would like to have both versions in my toolkit (in the game ofc). Maybe the detonator could be a necessary attachment? (Ok, I know attachments are not yet implemented.)
-geever
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obi like them both, too - can't wait to see them textured and included in my new map ;) good job
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Personally I would like to see some tactical explosives and charges made available for use. The combat applications for these are many, especially if chain explosions are ever implimented.
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Reminds me of Drassen defense in Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 MOD... Imagine setting up a whole network of remote C4 sorrounded by RDX , TNT and mines, covering the whole entrance into a area (almost the whole right side of the map). And then detonating when 120 enemy soldiers start rushing in. Even on my rig the game slows down from all the 'splodin and flying body parts.
OH, THE HUMANITY! :D
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can you maybe export the models already, even with no texture i would like to add them to the game, because i also have to make the item definitions and so on.
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Yea, hold on pls.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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thank you very much - commited them to trunk.
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any news about the model textures? how do they come along? any shots to show us already?
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No, not yet..I've been busy with a few things in RL. It will get done tough.
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Hm..under tags (sourceforge) is ufoai_2-2-1 the latest dev build?
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No, that's the latest stable build. The latest dev build is, uh, I dunno. CIA isn't talking much these days. But 2.3.
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Hey TrashMan - any news about the bomb skins?
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In works...I searched around the web for free images of materials I could use... found 2 good plastic wrappers for plastic explosives and a nice detonator.
Normally I would have been done ages ago, but I just don't have the drive to do anything lately (must be the blasted heat).
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In works...I searched around the web for free images of materials I could use... found 2 good plastic wrappers for plastic explosives and a nice detonator.
But please keep in mind, that those images must be open-sourced, too - so we need the license of your source images to be able to release the skins under the same license (except if it was public domain)
it would also be nice if you could submit vom uv map skins
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Well, I pick up most of the background textures I use from the CG Textures site. I take good care what I take, if I take anything.
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the cg textures are not compatible to the open source licenses we need - they are free - but not opensource
you can have a look at the photos i took: http://picasaweb.google.de/Martin.Gerhardy - these photos are all gpled and are 100% compatible to what we need.
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Allright, I'll find something else or make my own. Shouldn't be hard...textures are only 256x256 :P
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Allrighty...a new texture for the bomb..still not 100% done. What do you think:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I think it looks pretty good.
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sweeeett - nice work
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All done!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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thank you very much - is this for the bomb2.md2, too?
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It's for Bomb1, I might use it for bomb2 if you end up needing another bomb.
Do you need another type of bomb?
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it would be nice to have a skin for the bomb2 model, too
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Proximity mines?
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Hey TrashMan, would you be interested in making a heavier variant of the Needler? Since we're expanding the alien arsenal, this is a must-have for us, and we'd really appreciate it.
Regards,
Winter
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I was under the impression that the Needler is already a heavy weapon...well, what do you know :)
I'll see what can be done about it.
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I was under the impression that the Needler is already a heavy weapon...well, what do you know :)
I'll see what can be done about it.
Basically what we're looking for in the heavy needler is the alien equivalent of the Barrett M82A1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82) to a smaller, lower-calibre sniper rifle.
Regards,
Winter
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Duh..I'm an idiot.. I have to ask again. I'm trying to check out the latest game files via SVN.
It is the 2.2/ branch...right?
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Duh..I'm an idiot.. I have to ask again. I'm trying to check out the latest game files via SVN.
It is the 2.2/ branch...right?
No, trunk is the latest. Of course trunk is broken right now . . .
Regards,
Winter
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trunk is broken?
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Worked for me this afternoon.
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I think he means it can't be downloaded via SVN at the moment. It doesn't want to download for me. I get some error reports.
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That too worked for me.
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Error: PROPFIND request failed on '/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk'
Error: PROPFIND of '/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk': 302 Found (http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net)
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You are trying wrong URL
svn co https://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ufoai ufoai
As it`s writed here (http://sourceforge.net/svn/?group_id=157793)
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Huh. I thought trunk was broken, maybe it's not anymore. It all moves so fast! :P
Regards,
Winter
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I Dl ed the trunk now...erm...where's the exe?
the build folder with all the models and other content is there, and there are folders with the code, but where's the latest .exe?
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Trunk doesn't contain an exe. It only contains the source, and from that you can compile your own executable. For instructions on how to do this, refer to the wiki.
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Well, what's the latest stable exe? And does anyone have it lying around. I don't want to go compiling the code now :P
B.t.w. - I have something you might be interested in. Something of a side-project of mine (experimenting a little), but might be usable for UFO:AI.
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http://ufoai.sourceforge.net/?page=Download
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ERm...yeah..what about those links? I already got both the 2.2.1 release AND trunk.
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You asked for the latest stable. That's 2.2.1. If you want 2.3, there are some installers around but they'll be outdated daily. If you want to be sure you'll always have the latest version, you're going to have to compile the source. If you don't mind working on a 2.3 snapshot, look over in the Windows forum.
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Look where? All I see is a 450MB installer.
Compiling takes time and I have to download all sorts of libraries and stuff. Can't someone just build a exe and put it up somewhere?
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No. The thing with dev versions is that the code changes as well as the accompanying data files. If you just downloaded some arbitrary executable, you might have wrong maps or script files causing all sorts of problems. So either you compile your own executable or you download an installer. Take your pick.
By the way, if you use the prepackaged C::B version for UFO:AI compilation isn't that hard or time consuming. And you don't have to manually download any libs either.
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As I said...result of a little side experiment of mine:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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i like it, but keep in mind, that we also might need the landing gear - but i'm not the right person to answer here, that's winter or btaxis.
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We already evaluated those models and decided against using them, they really don't match the feel of UFO:AI. They simply don't look like in-atmosphere craft, and we won't be featuring any dedicated starfighters.
Regards,
Winter
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ERm...this isn't the old model.
It's a new one, but uses the same central hull shape as the old one.
This one actually has WINGS to fly in atmosphere. It's a in-atmosphere craft inspired a bit by the Blackbird.
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ERm...this isn't the old model.
It's a new one, but uses the same central hull shape as the old one.
This one actually has WINGS to fly in atmosphere. It's a in-atmosphere craft inspired a bit by the Blackbird.
It's not enough just to have wings, the engines are located on the weakest part of the wings and in a way that maximises the drag they produce. They would rip the craft to pieces trying to get off the ground. The squarely angled nose would also produce lots of drag, causing extra stress on the airframe and limiting speed.
The only way I could see this thing working in UFO:AI is as a UAV, with the engines moved closer to the central body and the cockpit removed.
Regards,
Winter
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It's not enough just to have wings, the engines are located on the weakest part of the wings and in a way that maximises the drag they produce. They would rip the craft to pieces trying to get off the ground. The squarely angled nose would also produce lots of drag, causing extra stress on the airframe and limiting speed.
Apparently, some of the people that made real-life working planes haven't partaken of your wisdom. I'm surprised their planes fly.
(http://tomschrimp.com/b2evolution/media/blogs/new/V-22Osprey.jpg)
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Apparently, some of the people that made real-life working planes haven't partaken of your wisdom. I'm surprised their planes fly.
(http://tomschrimp.com/b2evolution/media/blogs/new/V-22Osprey.jpg)
Wow, y'know, I didn't think the Osprey had jet engines that drove it at Mach 3+. I wonder what would happen to it if it did.
Never mind the fact that its wing design is massively reinforced and completely different from your craft.
Regards,
Winter
PS. The Osprey is also an unreliable deathtrap known for going down and killing everyone on board. Not the best example of a well-designed aircraft.
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But also not the only design that's a bit weird or has engines that are placed on wings. The F-117 needs special electronics to keep it in air. The blackbird has eninges on the wings and it's as fast as hell.
I would appreciate if you would not presume to tell me how reinforced/strong the wings on craft I designed are. Last I checked you were not a certified aircraft engineer.
If you don't like it, just say you don't like it - I won't mind. Say it sucks - I won't mind. Say it's the ugliest thing you've ever seen - I won't mind.
What I do mind is when you throw some questionable quasi-scientific reasons with little to no real basis.
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But also not the only design that's a bit weird or has engines that are placed on wings. The F-117 needs special electronics to keep it in air. The blackbird has eninges on the wings and it's as fast as hell.
I would appreciate if you would not presume to tell me how reinforced/strong the wings on craft I designed are. Last I checked you were not a certified aircraft engineer.
If you don't like it, just say you don't like it - I won't mind. Say it sucks - I won't mind. Say it's the ugliest thing you've ever seen - I won't mind.
What I do mind is when you throw some questionable quasi-scientific reasons with little to no real basis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg
Look at the size and configuration of those engine mounts. For one they're not mounted square on paper-thin wings. The Blackbird is by no means comparable to what you produced, and just because you don't have a basic grasp of physics and material stresses doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:F-117_Nighthawk_Front.jpg
Wingtip-mounted engines on the F-117? No. They're inside the fuselage, where they can be hidden and where the structure of the craft is strongest.
In fact, let me just run this whole thing by my friend who is an actual aeroplane engineer. See what he says, eh?
Regards,
Winter
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Look at the size and configuration of those engine mounts. For one they're not mounted square on paper-thin wings. The Blackbird is by no means comparable to what you produced, and just because you don't have a basic grasp of physics and material stresses doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either.
They're not paper-thin (altough I can make em thicker easily). Not to mention they're made out of that awesome alien material you're so fond of.
Wingtip-mounted engines on the F-117? No. They're inside the fuselage, where they can be hidden and where the structure of the craft is strongest.
In fact, let me just run this whole thing by my friend who is an actual aeroplane engineer. See what he says, eh?
I was referring to it's aerodynamic properties, not it's engine placement. It's a well know fact no pilot can keep the think in air without computer support.
And sure, go right ahead. While you at it, run also the designs you currenlty use for PHALANX and alien ships.
I'm interested how feasable they are...if at all.
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even if winter won't accept this for the game, please submit your model sources - it would be a pity if you would collect dust.
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Hey guys, only thing I can say, is why does everything that have to go into the game ( or any game ) be absolutely 100% feasible in the real world. It is after all just a game right? Not some type of real world simulation type thing with aliens invading us right? I can see trying to keep things somewhat realistic, so as to be "remotely" feasible, but don't know why it has to be worried about so emphatically. Most every computer game I've ever played has had much that could be "questioned" or looked upon with a raised eyebrow as to it's actual real feasibility.
And this isn't an attack on you Winter, it's just this is a game right? So what's the harm in having a little bit of things that make it look "cool" or just puts some zing / fun into it...it doesn't have to be 100% totally reliable and feasible...does it? Playing a game is supposedly about "escaping" from realism and having fun after all...which is why most of us do it...not to have a real life simulation...we get that without playing games :) From what I understand RL has awesome graphics, but in many ways other than that... it can really suck at times.
BTW, can't wait for the next stable version of AI, I'm sure that you Dev's are really going to be making it awesome.
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why does everything that have to go into the game ( or any game ) be absolutely 100% feasible in the real world.
What makes you think everything is? :o
Sometimes I'm not even sure what the criteria are...they seem to shift like the mood swings of a woman during PMS.
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Well it sure seems, that if if isn't at least possible for something to work in the real world, then it hasn't got a snowballs chance at getting into AI. Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption on my part, just from the many posts that I've read, that is the impression I get. Which is why I was on the soap box, about it just being a game and being more relaxed creatively. The heck with it, I'm just an observer on the side-lines, I'll just be glad whenever the next stable release comes out...I'm sure it will be a bang-up job however it ends up.
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Winter, you are so wrong about the aircraft proposed.
The design of the aircraft is completely feasible. Your idea of 'the engines are on the weakest part of the wings' will not hold up to squat as well as the flat boxed nose of the model.
and here is my proof...
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/sr71/sr71_schem_01.gif (http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/sr71/sr71_schem_01.gif)
The main wings has a reinforced titanium boxframe spar in the wing that holds those two huge engines to the main body. And they are on the 'thinnest' part of aircraft Oh, and did I mention that the aircraft has an unclassified speed of MACH 3+. And it is still considered one of the most advanced designed aircraft of this century.
As for your boxed nose idea.... all you have to do is look at the F-117. It is a faceted aircraft. There are no 'soft edges' on that aircraft anywhere.
So, before you start denying the idea of 'futuristic' designs, take a look at modern and development aircraft before judging what is feasible and isn't.
I can tell you all the things that your Stilleto class interceptor is incapable of doing in real life which would render it a useless interceptor of anything over MACH 0.9
Regards....
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Winter, you are so wrong about the aircraft proposed.
The design of the aircraft is completely feasible. Your idea of 'the engines are on the weakest part of the wings' will not hold up to squat as well as the flat boxed nose of the model.
and here is my proof...
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/sr71/sr71_schem_01.gif (http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/sr71/sr71_schem_01.gif)
The main wings has a reinforced titanium boxframe spar in the wing that holds those two huge engines to the main body. And they are on the 'thinnest' part of aircraft Oh, and did I mention that the aircraft has an unclassified speed of MACH 3+. And it is still considered one of the most advanced designed aircraft of this century.
As for your boxed nose idea.... all you have to do is look at the F-117. It is a faceted aircraft. There are no 'soft edges' on that aircraft anywhere.
So, before you start denying the idea of 'futuristic' designs, take a look at modern and development aircraft before judging what is feasible and isn't.
I can tell you all the things that your Stilleto class interceptor is incapable of doing in real life which would render it a useless interceptor of anything over MACH 0.9
Regards....
Bollocks. What is it with people on this forum and handwaving up 'proof'? Here are some actual facts.
1. The Blackbird is 6-7 times as large as this proposed fighter. The 'thinnest' part of the SR-71 is about as thick as the entire fuselage on this craft. It's also a hell of a lot more aerodynamic, and even with that ultra-aerodynamic design, the sharp edges of the Blackbird (tail, leading edge of wing, etc.) reach temperatures upwards of 1000 Fahrenheit. This is just an indication of the forces you have to deal with at hypersonic speeds.
If you had actually bothered to look at that drawing you posted so proudly, the engine mounts are vastly larger -- they connect to several metres worth of titanium wing at the near side of the fuselage -- with swooshes out to the weaker part of the wing to reinforce and create a more aerodynamic surface. NOT COMPARABLE WITH BOXES SLAPPED ONTO A WEAKER FORWARD-SWEEPING PART OF A WING.
2. The nose is not 'faceted'. It's a bloody drag trap. It creates a pocket where air can't flow over the craft but is forced to bash directly into it, totally unlike the F-117 and its very pointy nose. If this thing were to catch a bad piece of wind at Mach 3, that's like running the whole craft into a mountainside. (Direct quote from my engineer friend.)
3. The poor use of angles on this thing makes it about as radar-stealthy as a brick with a jet engine.
4. Where's the landing gear going to go? You want to include three metres worth of telescoping landing gear to handwave the useless spiky bits underneath the engines?
You can stop wanking over the Blackbird now, please. I'd also appreciate if you refrain from any further accusations and start using real science.
Regards,
Winter
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I find your own arguments laughable.
1. What do I care what temperatures are reached on the edges of a Balckbird? What is blackbird made of? Last I heard, there are some pretty impressive alloys out there regarding heat and stress tolerance. Even moreso by 2080.
Speaking of thicknes, being smaller also means less mass.
Oh, another thing - where do you get the engine connected to the forward sweeping part of the wing? the engines are on a backward sweeping part. You blind?
2. That was supposed to be a intake of a sorts..see the grid on it? The air flows trough. But I suppose I could remove the lower part.
3. Who said it was a stealth fighter?
4. Ever heard of foldable wings? I know, it's a shockingly impossible concept. ::)
You know - the lower fins folding up to the engine level, thus making it easy to land with a perfectly normal landing gear.
Speaking of which, did your engineer fried go over the other PHALANX and alien craft? Cause just by looking at them I can tell you that half of them wouldn't get far after takeoff...assuming they manage to get off the ground in the first place.
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1. The Blackbird is 6-7 times as large as this proposed fighter. The 'thinnest' part of the SR-71 is about as thick as the entire fuselage on this craft. It's also a hell of a lot more aerodynamic, and even with that ultra-aerodynamic design, the sharp edges of the Blackbird (tail, leading edge of wing, etc.) reach temperatures upwards of 1000 Fahrenheit. This is just an indication of the forces you have to deal with at hypersonic speeds.
So, based on your response, what size aircraft are you looking for? Single seat? Dual seat....in tandem or abreast? What are the necessary speed requirements that you are wanting? Altitude requirements? Armament requirements? Other abilities that need to be designed into the aircraft itself? Once again, you are spitting out all these requirements but you aren't putting anything specific out there for designers to build upon. You are just ripping apart others work when they submit something because it doesn't fit "your" design facts which you have not clearly or effectively conveyed to the ones who want to try and add.
And to correct your information.....the aircraft normally came back from missions with an average ambient temperature of 300
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So, based on your response, what size aircraft are you looking for? Single seat? Dual seat....in tandem or abreast? What are the necessary speed requirements that you are wanting? Altitude requirements? Armament requirements? Other abilities that need to be designed into the aircraft itself? Once again, you are spitting out all these requirements but you aren't putting anything specific out there for designers to build upon. You are just ripping apart others work when they submit something because it doesn't fit "your" design facts which you have not clearly or effectively conveyed to the ones who want to try and add.
. . . The craft was submitted out of the blue to no design specs of mine. If anyone had bothered to ask, we're not in fact looking for more interceptors, excepting one particular craft to fill the gap between the Dragon and the Stingray. What we do need quite badly is UAVs, which are being coded in by stevenjackson at the moment.
And to correct your information.....the aircraft normally came back from missions with an average ambient temperature of 300
Yes, that was the temperature measured AFTER LANDING. Not in-flight. You just keep proving me right here.
Let me remind everyone that this game is not a democracy. Just because we rely on volunteer effort doesn't mean we have to accept everything that gets thrown at us, we're a professional team and we're not going to try to crowbar something in just because it's got a pretty model. The model can be uploaded to SVN but we won't be using it for the single-player campaign.
Regards,
Winter
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The only reason I made this craft is because I wanted to experiment...and because the "best" human fighter sucks IMHO. Well, most humans fighters suck.
EDIT: Compiled the trunk, everything seemed OK. Games doesn't start with the new exe.
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You should make a new thread about that in Coding.
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and my last 2 cents worth....
for an open source project, it is pretty closed minded.
Regards...
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and my last 2 cents worth....
for an open source project, it is pretty closed minded.
open SOURCE...nothing else should be assumed.
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The old debate about design decisions and rejecting/accepting ideas. Made my pitch on that a number of times before. Let's pretend I did so here and move on with more important things.
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I was just going over all the aircraft (alien and PHALANX) and their descriptions and notices some...inconsistencies.
1. Stilleto - needs bigger wings. It's supposed to be a VTOL like harrier. It has big engies and can hower when they are directed down. But in regular flight it turns the engines by 90
2. Dragon - that thing will never fly. Forward swept wings have excellent performance at speeds between 0,7-1,2 Mach. Above that the performance starts to drop rapidly. So for really fast fighters, forward-swept wing design is the the last logical choice.
3. Firebird - it's kickass. It should be the best dropship EVAR for PHALANX. It is seriously that great. Yea, I know this isn't a real logical argument, but it's jsut THAT cool.
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Erm...anyone have a max scene or object of any human in any armor(or lack thereoff) in a Michelangelo-like spread out pose?
It would help when making my own armor...scaling purposes and all.
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http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/data_source/models/characters/rastaman_bey/humanmale_medium_rig.max?view=log
just remove (or disable) the bip object to get the actor in it's normal position
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Thanx...this will come in handy.
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Hm...3DMax 7.0 doesn't want to open the file..
B.t.w. - I believe you asked for that Starchaser concpet model? I'm not done yet. Tweaking and changing stuff. A bit braider wings, sleeker engines...stuff like that.
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please post a render shot of the current state
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Just begun the tweaks..not much difference from the first image ATM. (Got my FS2 campaign going again and now I got a team that reports to me..so yeah..been keeping myself busy :D )
but since there is no starchaser model ATM, this one can be used at least temporary.
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Here, this is how it currently looks.
I'm thinking of getting rid of the lower fins.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here is is - the basic version - the model and texture.
And I even made a few entires to test it in-game:
aircraftmenagment.ufo:
aircraft craft_inter_starchaser
{
param {
speed 40
maxspeed 50
shield 2
ecm 100
damage 100
accuracy 70
fuelsize 17500
}
name "_Starchaser-class Interceptor"
shortname "_Starchaser"
type interceptor
model "inter_starchaser"
numteam 1
size 2
price 250000
building building_intercept
image air_interceptor
slot {
type weapon
position nose_left
size light
}
slot {
type weapon
position nose_right
size light
slot {
type weapon
position wing_left
size medium
}
slot {
type weapon
position wing_right
size medium
}
slot {
type electronics
position wing_left
}
slot {
type electronics
position wing_right
}
}
research.ufo:
tech rs_craft_inter_starchaser
{
type craft
description {
default "_inter_starchaser_txt"
}
pre_description {
default "_inter_starchaser_pre_txt"
}
up_chapter crafts
provides craft_inter_starchaser
require_AND {
tech rs_inter_dragon
tech rs_craft_ufo_fighter
}
time 5000
producetime 800
mdl inter_starchaser
}
I'm in the process of writing the description.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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nice, please also upload your source file and tell us the license you release that under please, is gpl2 or later ok?
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Source file? You mean the 3D Max object? I take it you also want the .pds file for the texture? Everything there is 100% original.
Gpl2 is fine.
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yes, both please
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here you go - I had to merge all layers and reduce the texture .pds file to 512x512 (the original is 1024x1024) to keep it small enough to attach.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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that's bad - can you mail me the version with layers and high res?
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I'll upload it on mediafire..hold on a sec.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2c937bcb38ef65c1d2db6fb9a8902bda
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I almost forgot - just for reference, here is the final pic of the StarChaser (the submitted model).
Now, I can't open the max file with the human, and thus I'll get to work on the heavy needler.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here u get a model/textures for the AA51 missile.
It would be nice, if someone could export it to md2 again. I wasn't able to load it via GTKRadiant and I have no idea why.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Isn't the missile launcher model already done?
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Its the missile, not the launcher and it is marked as open http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/TODO/2.3
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I tried to attach a texture on another model (blender), but it seems as if the texture is drawn at the wrong side of some faces...
Is this just a problem, that appears while creating it? Or does it also occur as md2-model?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'm not a model expert but it seems to me some normals are pointing the wrong way.
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Wonderful, thx.
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Here is another model. But I am still not able to export it...
It would be nice, if someone could export it for me.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'll do it.
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i think you have been beaten to it
r19263 | hoehrer | 2008-09-18 08:48:46 +0100 (Thu, 18 Sep 2008) | 2 lines
Changed paths:
A /ufoai/trunk/base/models/objects/rubbish/buffalo_scull.md2
A /ufoai/trunk/base/models/objects/rubbish/buffalo_scull.tga
* Exported ghostas buffalo scull model.
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I'm slow these days...I got so many other projects to work on...lol :P And SPORE...nice game...but lacks something.
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Heavy Needler gun... what do you think?
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6072/ufohneedlereq5.th.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ufohneedlereq5.jpg)(http://img227.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
I'm also working on a assault rifle for the military...and..other things. I ought get back to the armors :P
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aaaand..done. VHS rifle
(http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1719/ufovhsrifledv3.th.jpg) (http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ufovhsrifledv3.jpg)(http://img65.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
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Needler is looking good to me. I don't think we have much use for the other rifle, except maybe as a model to put in military base maps.
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Hrm....game is crashing as soon as I add my changed UFO files (added the Starchaser, XAW95 to singleplayer and the VHS rifle, and the Neeedler gun to the aliens.. hrm...must be a typo somewhere....luckily I backed up all the UFO files I edited :P)
I'll convert the heavy needler and upload everything.
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You can share your modified .ufo files, so we can look to they and point out the mistakes.
PS: And you don`t need to backup you files, if you have checkouted SVN. You are able to rollback all changes.
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I think I might have found the errero.. a missing "}" . Will still have to test it.
Anywayz:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hrm...still chrashes....OK, here's hte dited files..I cna't find anything wrong in there:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2c937bcb38ef65c1d2db6fb9a8902bda
6 files were edited:
aircraftmanagement.ufo - added the Starchaser
equipment.ufo - added the xaw95 and vhs
equipment_mission.ufo - added needlergun to tier 4 aliens
research.ufo - added research entries for all 3 things
weapons_human.ufo - added the xaw95 and vhs entries
weapons_multiplayer - just cut out the XAW95 entry and moved it to human weapons. No real edit of this file :P
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what is the vhs?
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also what about the source files? can you upload them, too?
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ERm...hold on. The source file for the Heavy Needler is the same as for the needler. Jut slight tweaks on the texture.
For the VHS Assault Rifle I made a new texture from scratch...hold on, I'll upload that one.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2c937bcb38ef65c1d2db6fb9a8902bda
As for the VHS - it's modeled (and named) after a brand new, almost recoilless assault rifle that is just entering mass production. Not a complete match, but then again I was going for something similar. I only named it VHS in the files since it's short and easy to remember. Kinda looks like a FA-MAS, doesn't it..or like a Tavor.. Christ, all these bulpups look so similar :)
EDIT: Has anyone taken a peek at the files I edited?
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About crashes you should define "crash" and hunt some more info. There are several ways a program could exit abnormally:
* segmentation fault (general protection failure) - backtrace needed
* assertion failure - sourcefile, line number, expression at least
* (other) program exit (like SysError) - error message
In the first two cases the program have to be fixed (and the question is where). Whatever is in the script the parser should handle it even with an error message.
-geever
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It CTD's when I click on Start Campaign, no message.
So given that only these 6 (5 actually) files were changed, something in them must be triggering the crash.
I used to edit files like this to test weapons in 2.2.1. with little problems, so I don't really think there is an error on the program part...Well, I doubt that there is one.
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For segfaults you should inspect the console log and do a backtrace in gdb.
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AHA..Found the culprit.
Aparently the Starchaser had as one of the required tech rs_inter_dragon instead of rs_craft_inter_dragon :P
Hm..vhs rifle texture isn't showing up...what was I supposed to put in the md2 exporter for the map? Some symbol before the name...
_vhs.jpg or was it .vhs.jpg? #?
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Nevermind...just remembered. I should re-upload the md2's hten...
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The heavy needler is fine, I'm happy with it. The other bits, however . . .
aircraftmanagement.ufo - added the Starchaser
It's been said before, we don't have a place for your Starchaser in the campaign. Do not commit.
equipment.ufo - added the xaw95 and vhs
Same for these two. The new rifle is not appropriate since we're already full up on human weapons. Do not commit.
research.ufo - added research entries for all 3 things
Do not commit.
weapons_human.ufo - added the xaw95 and vhs entries
Do not commit.
weapons_multiplayer - just cut out the XAW95 entry and moved it to human weapons. No real edit of this file :P
Do not commit.
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Did I say I was commiting anything?
I'm not crazy enough to commit files I tweak for testing. Especially not files that don't work or cause crashes (well, not anymore, but still)
What kind of a idiot do you take me for? ::)
I am friggin insulted!
EDIT:
Speaking of the StarChaser - I adresed all the "realism" issues you had with it and passed it along.
AFAIK, you don't have a starchaser model, so you could very well use this one at least for balance testing. Altouhg for the love of me I can't see what more gross unrealistic errors you could have possibly found...
The VHS is something I made for the military/police to use. It's slower, but more accurate than the current AR.
EDIT2:
Hrm...the VHS should use the same ammo as the assault rifle...but it doesn't.....strange.
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so how should i name the vhs weapon? i would like to commit that model and activate it for mulitplayer. btw. we still need script entries for the heavy needler (haven't looked at the ufo files you posted - are they included there?). also TrashMan, the updated md2 files... you just changed the texture path? or also the mesh?
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I changed the texture paths withing the md2. (I exported hem with a _vhs instead of .vhs, so the texture didn't show up at all)
The old textures work.
And no, I haven't made any entries for the heavy needler, since it's an alien weapons and no one told me how powerful it should be, etc. Well, that, and I was trying to get weapons working one by one...easier to track errors that way.
Name the vhs however you want.
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tweaked the VHS rifle to sit a bit better in the hands of soldiers. Minor tweak really.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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ok, thanks - commited to trunk - feel free to send (mulitplayer only) ufo script files for the vhs
i hope that btaxis and/or winter will contribute the weapon defs for the heavy needler, too ;)
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Ya know, it's maybe better to just post the entries for the weapon, rather than the file itself...Here, for the VHS
ADD THIS TO THE ASSAULT RIFLE AMMO:
weapon_mod vhs
{
firedef
{
name "_Snap Shot"
skill assault
projtl bullet
impact bulletImpact
hitbody null
firesnd weapons/assaultrifle
speed 0
spread "1.0 1.0"
crouch 0.7
range 250
shots 1
ammo 1
time 8
damage "40 5"
dmgweight normal_medium
reaction true
}
firedef
{
name "_3-Round Burst"
skill assault
projtl bullet
impact bulletImpact
hitbody null
firesnd weapons/assaultrifle
speed 0
spread "1.2 1.2"
crouch 0.7
range 70
shots 3
ammo 3
delaybetweenshots 5
time 10
damage "40 5"
dmgweight normal_medium
reaction true
}
firedef
{
name "_Full-Auto"
skill assault
projtl bullet
impact bulletImpact
hitbody null
firesnd weapons/assaultrifle
speed 0
spread "1.8 1.8"
crouch 0.6
range 70
shots 6
ammo 8
delaybetweenshots 10
time 16
damage "40 5"
dmgweight normal_medium
reaction true
}
firedef
{
name "_Aimed shot"
skill assault
projtl bullet
impact bulletImpact
hitbody null
firesnd weapons/assaultrifle
speed 0
spread "0.75 0.75"
crouch 0.6
range 70
shots 1
ammo 1
time 12
damage "40 5"
dmgweight normal_medium
reaction true
}
}
// =======================
// VHS ASSAULT RIFLE
// =======================
item vhs
{
name "_VHS Assault Rifle"
model weapons/vhs/vhs
weapon true
type rifle
animationindex 1
holdtwohanded false
firetwohanded true
shape "1 0 4 1"
shape "0 1 5 1"
center "-3 -3 1"
scale 1.2
ammo 30
reload 10
price 3000
size 20
is_primary true
}
RESEARCH:
tech rs_weapon_vhs
{
type weapon
up_chapter equipment
description {
default "_assault_txt"
}
require_AND
{
tech rs_skill_assault
}
provides vhs
time 0
producetime 90
}
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Question to you people.
I finally gotten around to test the Starchaser, to see if it works. Well, I can research it, I can buy it, but the model doesn't show up.
I re-converted the model just to be sure and checked. It's in the inter_starchaser folder, the .md2 and .jpg are named the same, and that's what's called in the aircraftmanagement.ufo.
I can't figure out what's wrong.. I had a Saracen model for scaling, so that shouldn't be the problem either..so what could it be?
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Nobody have a clue then? ???
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where exactly don't you see it?
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in any screen. like it's invisible. I can research it, buy it, equip it, send it to intercept - but no model shows up anywhere.
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and no console output? did you add it to the menu models ufo script file?
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models.ufo? No, I didn't think I needed to.
The ufoconsole message is that it cannot find geospace/inter_starchaser.
Thanks for the hint.. testing now.
EDIT: No go.
Now it jsut dumps me back on geospace whenever I want to access it's model in any menu (equiip, aircraft, buy equipment)
EDIT2: This is interesting:
ERROR: model models/aircraft/inter_starchaser/inter_starchaser.md2 has too many (or no) vertices (2347/2048)
EDIT3:
HAHA! It works!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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LOL...get this - it's flying BACKWARDS on geoscape! :D
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i've added the vhs to multiplayer - and the texture seams really dark. it would be nice if you could light it up a little bit.
to check this in-game, go into multiplayer->team and create a new team there.
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ice it too. Textures are far darken(far more saturated) in-game.
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Ya thanks Mattn, but I won't have to.
I already added everything to single-player (both needer guns included). Fun :D
b.t.w. - have you managed to talk some sense into Winter, regarding the StarChaser?
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Ya thanks Mattn, but I won't have to.
I already added everything to single-player (both needer guns included). Fun :D
b.t.w. - have you managed to talk some sense into Winter, regarding the StarChaser?
I'm perfectly sensible, thank you, and it so happens that we are a team of people who don't undermine each other's decisions. You can either stop trying to get people to overrule the designers about your pet projects or you can piss off.
Regards,
Winter
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Even if they are bad ones?
Just saying that:
a) this is a hobby project, no one is paying anyone, so people work purely on good will alone. Therefore, having an "iron grip" (if you pardon the expression) on the project might not be the best idea, as it might alianate people who actually make content for "your" (or should I say, "our"? ) game. Personally, I don't make stuff for this because of your wining personality (not that my personality is much better, mind you) and I bet no one is.
Still, it's not as bad as I make it sound - as some other projects I've had the misfrortune fr joining before realising just how little freedom anyone in them actually had. I don't think this project is going down, quite the contrary, I think it will be finished - altough not exactly as fast as it could be.
b) you said what you didn't liked about the model, I fixed it, and you haven't said anything after that.
c) you don't have a model for the starchaser. Not even a temporary one for testing. Makes no sense to not use something someone offers you for free, at least as a temporary fix.
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Even if they are bad ones?
In your opinion, that is. How much game design have you done exactly? And how much professionally? How many times have you worked with actual industry people and methods?
Just saying that:
a) this is a hobby project, no one is paying anyone, so people work purely on good will alone. Therefore, having an "iron grip" (if you pardon the expression) on the project might not be the best idea, as it might alianate people who actually make content for "your" (or should I say, "our"? ) game. Personally, I don't make stuff for this because of your wining personality (not that my personality is much better, mind you) and I bet no one is.
Still, it's not as bad as I make it sound - as some other projects I've had the misfrortune fr joining before realising just how little freedom anyone in them actually had. I don't think this project is going down, quite the contrary, I think it will be finished - altough not exactly as fast as it could be.
I am friendly, courteous and respectful to anyone who genuinely contributes to the project without trying to hinder other people doing their part. That is not what you do. The design team doesn't tell the programming team how to do their jobs and vice-versa (unless we need to consult on design issues). In any game project where quality means anything, the artists work with the designers to create models that are coherent with the game, that look like they belong. They don't just chuck random models at the rest of the team and expect them to be used regardless of what they are or how they (don't) fit.
Plus, the way you keep hammering on about every piece of yours that we don't want to use, it comes across as an ego thing more than anything else.
b) you said what you didn't liked about the model, I fixed it, and you haven't said anything after that.
I said there was no circumstance under which we'd ever use it in the single-player campaign. BTAxis agrees. What is the issue?
c) you don't have a model for the starchaser. Not even a temporary one for testing. Makes no sense to not use something someone offers you for free, at least as a temporary fix.
What's there to test? We've already got other interceptors and we've already got other researchable craft. There is nothing to justify crowbarring in a model that doesn't even remotely match the art style of the game.
Regards,
Winter
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I worked on quite a lot of project FYI. Lead a few myself. All finished in good time too.
It's not about not using my model in-game. Heck, there's a lot of my stuff that never made it into various projects (some of my stuff didn't make it in MY OWN projects). There's several things of mine you're not using - I'm perfectly fine with that.
The problem I have is of a different nature. You throwing bogus* reasons (like aerodynamics, too thin wing, too big engines) instead of just saying" It's not what we looking for. We want something that has a bit more Z". Some constructive criticims would have been nice to.
Something along the line of "the texture is to dark, doesn't look metaly enough. I envision rounder engines", "Phalanx uses a smaller cockpit" etc...you know, something that might give me a rough idea of what you DO want. Or at least how I can change it to suit your needs.
By now you should have figured that I got no objections to completey changing it, but I don't know exacty what to change it into.
So you might want to give me some ideas here.
*yes, bogus, cause half the craft you have have the exact same problems,even worse.
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The only thing this game needs, i a good concept ( drawing ) artist.
And when the concept is approved, then begin with the modeling
and texturing part.
Otherwise it is much to much work for the modeler to modify the model ( and UV ) again and again.
before the approval is there, and that's frustrating.
Willem
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The only thing this game needs, i a good concept ( drawing ) artist.
And when the concept is approved, then begin with the modeling
and texturing part.
Otherwise it is much to much work for the modeler to modify the model ( and UV ) again and again.
before the approval is there, and that's frustrating.
Willem
Hey sitters, long time no see! Glad to have you back.
We'd love to have a concept artist to straighten out the visual style beforehand and avoid all this arguing. Unfortunately we don't, and the few 2d artists we do get are also badly needed for the UFOpaedia. We simply don't have the art support we really need to make it all function smoothly, so we just have to struggle on.
Regards,
Winter
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All fine and dandy...but you got to have some idea of what you want.. even a rough description would do.
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What about more more smooth and grey? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Lockheed_Martin_F-22.jpg
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It looks like plastic or modeled o.O
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Otherwise it is much to much work for the modeler to modify the model ( and UV ) again and again.
before the approval is there, and that's frustrating.
Not necasarily. Models for UFO:AI aren't complex and only use a single texture, so tweaking them or making multiple version is not a bit problem. Not a lot more than making a sketch at least.
I go no problems with making a concept model(s) (as I did with the Needler) and then tweaking them depending on feedback. But for that to work I need feedback.
So, to get back to the question at hand - what are you looking for Winter? I have a hard time getting a "feel" for Phlanax craft when they don't have nothing in common.
Is there anything I can do to make the StarChaser more to your liking (radical changes included)? Should I start from scratch?
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Hey sitters, long time no see! Glad to have you back.
We'd love to have a concept artist to straighten out the visual style beforehand and avoid all this arguing. Unfortunately we don't, and the few 2d artists we do get are also badly needed for the UFOpaedia. We simply don't have the art support we really need to make it all function smoothly, so we just have to struggle on.
Regards,
Winter
Yea, I am still around, but very busy making models, for the game I am a team member of ( Risen3d ).
I am making a total new monster pack, and animate it also.
I have learn a lot these days, sculpting, normal mapping, bump mapping , animating and more.
Yes mattn I am also animating now. :)
But also have some spare time for making models for UFO:AI ( if needed ).
yea I know the problem, its always difficult to make a model without any concept drawing.
Best way is to make an basic shape and if it is approved, then UV map and texture it.
Willem
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New models for UFO:AI are always needed.
A quick job is the Herakles transport which you did before. We're going to need a version of the pod with an interiour added to it for use on tactical maps.
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I have learn a lot these days, sculpting, normal mapping, bump mapping , animating and more.
Yes mattn I am also animating now. :)
what - i heard animating??? can you show examples? is this game you are talking about open source, too? or for earning your bred?
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what - i heard animating??? can you show examples? is this game you are talking about open source, too? or for earning your bred?
Yea it is open source ( doom2 port ) , I also map for it, here the link
http://risen3d.newdoom.com/
It's not a very big deal, only to make models same as the sprites of the original game.
Everything just as a hobby, not for earning my bred.
@BTaxis : Yea I remember the pod, I pick it up. :)
Willem
Edit : I think for the interior of the pot, best can use separate models like the seats, first aid stuff, some computer screens, pipes and more of that stuff.
Otherwise you get a giant texture format.
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I'll take this silence as "we're not interested for you to work on this"....
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sorry TrashMan - you have to convince Winter and BTAxis to get a (storyline-)model included into the game
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I wasn't talking about that Starchaser, I was talking about A starchaser and other veichles in general....
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I guess you could try your hand at doing some UFOs. Just make sure they fit in with the current UFO style. For one thing, we only have map objects for the Corrupter and Bomber (no models for use in the UFOpaedia and on the geoscape). Then we have no design at all for the Gunboat, Ripper and Battleship.
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I dont know how you think the UFOs should look like, but please dont make them THAT wide. Increase the height...
It is a bit hard to implement those large UFOs to RMA.
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Shouldn't be wider than the Corrupter or longer than the Bomber.
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Any concept images for those?
And what about the Starchaser? Anyone else making it or should I have another go at it?
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No concept images for anything, I'm afraid. But we have a bunch of existing UFOs that should push you in the general direction.
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Maybe we should brainstorm for it? Which concept could be best:
1. "Legionaire" - Big armored shield on top and huge energy weapon in one end through, maybe with other arc. Big engines, smaller particle beams and other weapons under shield.
2. "Battle Hedgehog" - structure like first tanks, with fixed beams out to every direction.
3. "guntowers" battleship - use my old rendering, you see what I mean. Most radical departure from current ships, I think. Particle beams in armored towers around heavy looking ship.
Okay, all were "wingless", but because map size limits we probably must more think of "dense" ships - two or three floors, partially open area inside. Wings are for small fighers, big ships like battleships are more for firepower and slaving humanity.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Okay, all were "wingless", but because map size limits we probably must more think of "dense" ships - two or three floors, partially open area inside. Wings are for small fighers, big ships like battleships are more for firepower and slaving humanity.
With this I strongly agree.
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No concept images for anything, I'm afraid. But we have a bunch of existing UFOs that should push you in the general direction.
Alright, I'll try something....how big should the UFO battleship be (max size in Max units?)
Also, I'll need Winter to get back to me on the Starchaser. I have to know what he doesn't like on the old one before I can make a new one.
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I think he doesn't like your Starchaser, period.
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That's why I need to know what he doesn't like specifcly if I want to make a new one...
How can you make something "right" if you don't know what you did "wrong"?
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That's why I need to know what he doesn't like specifcly if I want to make a new one...
How can you make something "right" if you don't know what you did "wrong"?
Don't you understand trashman ?
You have a gift for making people angry.
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That's why I need to know what he doesn't like specifcly if I want to make a new one...
How can you make something "right" if you don't know what you did "wrong"?
Agreed, the Starchaser looks like one badass dropship, what is wrong about it? ???
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I though this was a english speaking forum here.....yet for some reason my words seem to hit a wall of vacuum.
Pay attention:
That's why I need to know what he doesn't like specifcly if I want to make a new one...
If needed, I'll make a new one. Or make a new texture. Or radicly change the existing one. Whatever.
But I cna't start on a new one (or any changes) before knowing exactly what he doesn't like. Comprende?
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Agreed, the Starchaser looks like one badass dropship, what is wrong about it? ???
Actually, it's an interceptor.
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i would like to answer you TrashMan - but i don't know the answer ;)
i also haven't read the whole thread here - so i don't know whether the answer is something hidden in it already. but if not, Winter, BTAxis, please tell him what he should consider to change for future models.
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i would like to answer you TrashMan - but i don't know the answer ;)
i also haven't read the whole thread here - so i don't know whether the answer is something hidden in it already. but if not, Winter, BTAxis, please tell him what he should consider to change for future models.
I think in the first place some attitude.
Also he say, don't have a problem of making concept models, why doesn't he make them then ?
A little bit imagination from his side, and he can adapt his craft for fitting in the game.
Little bit less flaming and more think and modelling.
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LOL..I'm hardly the only one who needs to work on his attitude...
Look sitters, I'm working on several projects ATM (Freespace2, BOTF2, SOTS, UFO:AI, etc...) , so I really don't either the time or will to make a dozen concept models for UFO:AI without having a clue as what is required in the first place. As it is I currently don't even have a point in the right direction.
All I got so far is "your model sucks" and no specific CONSTRUCTIVE comments - like WHY it sucks.
So to make things easier I'm attaching the render of the last version of the Starchaser mesh. It will be easier to analyze with direct visual reference.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The plane has one problem in itself: the engines. The proportions to the wing seem off.
The body is angular as well, but still has flowing transitions to the wings.
Maybe try the same with the engines. And make the top fin more solid and flowing into it as well.
Oh and the cannons look like they could hit the front fins, which look strange anyway, best remove those fins entirely.
That would make a fine plane, but unfortunatelly it still won't be our starchaser as described in the wiki. I also noted that the saracen as it is based on the blackbird is rather unsuited for dogfighting. (but thats a different discussion: http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=3161.0) There may be a need for another interceptor, that could be this former design.
The Starchaser however need a very different design.
First of all it needs antimatter engines, yours still look like jet engines.
The body has to be something between the dragon and the stingray. It needs a definitiv alien feel, but should still be obviously of human design..
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First of all it needs antimatter engines, yours still look like jet engines.
The body has to be something between the dragon and the stingray. It needs a definitiv alien feel, but should still be obviously of human design..
For antimatter engines fuel is also used much more matter - for atmospheric flight its also economical to use air inflow, but much smaller then in jet case. Even smaller then ramjet or scramjet. Take a look at SR 71 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71_Blackbird) and you see - its inflows are really small. I agree that it needs also some sure signs that it uses alien technology - maybe weapons or at least currently missing texture. Its looking like human supermodern fighterjet and as it - it's very nice design!
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The Starchaser however need a very different design.
First of all it needs antimatter engines, yours still look like jet engines.
The body has to be something between the dragon and the stingray. It needs a definitiv alien feel, but should still be obviously of human design..
Do all antimatter engines need to look completely alike? Do they even need to be circular? I've seen test craft with vector thrust engines that where very boxy. What I'm asking - do they have to look exactly like the engines on the dragon (and alien fighters)? The Stingray has engines that look totally different.
I thought the Starchaser was human take on alien tech - thus, it was supposed to look human, but more advanced - while the Dragon and Stingray would be the more alien looking. Guess I was wrong.
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Well yes, the engines do need to look more or less the same. That's the point of making a model that fits in with the general style. You try to add certain features that other designs share.
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Well yes, the engines do need to look more or less the same. That's the point of making a model that fits in with the general style. You try to add certain features that other designs share.
Then why do the engines on the Stingray look different?
Come to think of it, I don't even think jet engines on various aircraft look nearly the same - mostly because they're inside the airplane and you see just the intake and exhaust and you can play a lot with those.
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Given that Winter is the one who's opinions weigh the most I'll wait for him to give me some guidelines before I even lift my hand (regarding UFO:AI).
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I think in the first place some attitude....
...Little bit less flaming and more think and modelling.
After reading the last 4 pages of this bizarre thread - where TrashMan has, in those parts, been nothing but polite and constructive, whilst you have been essentially obnoxious and lost objectivity - I don't understand why you do not take heed of your own advice.
Perhaps this response was warranted (I did not read the rest of the thread, nor do I care to) but you should at least be decent enough to comment on the specific issues of a contribution instead of stonewalling it.
If you can't be objective, how can you accept the responsibility of managing [a part of] something as fluid and dynamic as an open source project the size of UFO:AI? This thread has wasted a lot of time, and for no reason, and TrashMan is unusual in that he has put up with it. Most would have matched your temper and left. In an environment where skilled contributors are at a premium, that is not desirable, not at all.
How can you control a contribution if you can't control your temper?
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Freegamer has a point.
Oh, I thought the Starchaser looked too big, I originally thought it was a dropship.
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Sorry guys, but if the dime is not falling here, I can also do nothing about it.
Willem
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Oh, I thought the Starchaser looked too big, I originally thought it was a dropship.
It's the cockpit. I designed it as a two-seater. No problem changing that. the even older version was more..blocky, had a shorter nose and one-seat cockpit with a blocky canopy.
Anywayz, to explain what guided me to make it as I did. As anyone, I started with some assumptions on what it's supposed to be.
I wanted large wing surface for atmospheric flight, but I also wanted a more unorthodox shape than a copy of current fighter shapes. Something that looks like it could be a space fighter too. It was supposed to be the fastest Phlanax fighter IIRC, so I gave it big engines to further drive the speed point. Yeah, I could have smoothed the engines, but for me a somewhat blocky engine with a blocky nozzle gives a feel of high-tech, as opposed to all those smooth, curved, organic schtick one sees often. And from a practical stanpoint too - it's easier to mantain.
The gunz are just an add-on (separate subobject) :P
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This thread has wasted a lot of time, and for no reason, and TrashMan is unusual in that he has put up with it. Most would have matched your temper and left.
Which I might very well end up doing. I offer my services, I express my interest in making the Starchaser and all I ask is a point in the right direction.
Instead of explaining what is wanted (so I could make a model you'd guys like) I have been ignored all this time.
The Starchaser could have been finished a long time ago if someone would have given me the time of day..... :(
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Why don't you start on something else? The Starchaser discussion is pretty much over anyway.
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That's the point. I wanted to work on it (I like making fighters) and I was sumarily ignored FOR MONTHS until the job was given to someone else.
Why should I work on anything else only to be ignored again?
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You were told "no" and you didn't let it go. It wasn't a matter of "no, but if you change it a bit it'll become yes". You were sitting around going on about your model while the rest of us had moved on. That's what happened, nothing else.
You also did say you were ready to start a new model from scratch, and I'm not happy that Winter didn't react to that. But that's why I'm telling you to just go ahead and make something new now.
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FYI, I never told I'd change it a bit. From the beginning I offered to change ANYTHING (drasticly if need be. I often do that) or make a new one.
What you refer to as "going on about your model" was me trying to get some guidelines as to what Winter actually wanted. That's why no progress has been made for so long. I was waiting for input.
now all the aircraft slots are complete.....
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So why didn't you make a new one? Because you didn't receive "input"? Sitters doesn't receive input. He just makes something and shows us. And we usually like it, but if we don't that's no big deal. Why can't it be the same for you?
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Hello TrashMan, I'm quite surprised to see you here. :)
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I actually made this for a small UFO Aftershock mod yesterday, but I figure I can post it here too:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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if you would like to contribute the models, which license? and where can we get the files?
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I can send them over/attach/upload if you like em (and of course, the standard license, just like for other models).
The question would be if you'd need them or use them at all.
Also, there's a 1012 poly limit, right? I think the assault rifle is 1450 so I will probably have to optimize quite a bit.
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I like your this model more than existed in game.
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I just checked. The Automag V is 954 polys, so it's OK to go.
I actually plan to make a more futuristic version (minor changes and a new texture)
The rifle is modeled after the experimental VHS rifle concept (too bad that version did not go into production) and has 1434 polys - the very smooth barrel carrying a lot of that number.
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no, there is no poly limit - i'm not exactly sure whether we would use it in the main campaign - but if you would offer them, i would add them to multiplayer only... or allow mod creators to use them.
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As we already have models for all the human weapons we want to use in the campaign, the only way a human weapon model would make it in is if Winter decided it was better than an existing one.
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For what it's worth, I'll say that I really like the look of that pistol, and even if it doesn't end up in the campaign I'd be interested in making a mod that uses it. I'm actually still working on one mod, although I'll admit I've been putting it on a back burner for some time while working on other stuff...
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I frankly think that there's too little variety in human stock weaponry. ONE assault rifle?
Just how do you pick the best assault rifle? It's like picking the prettiest girl on the planet? Impossible.
Some have more punch (use a larger caliber), some are more accurate, some have more magazine capacity, some have more range. So too little I say.
UFO: AS and it's mods did good. You had a lot of firearms to choose from. And quite different too.
And now that I think about it, the current description for the assault rifle makes little sense. 5.56mm caseless slugs? And it can only carry 30 bullets per clip?
current assault rifles carry that much, and I'd expect that 80 years from now, with caseless slugs (that are more than half the size) you can fit at least 100
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I actually think there are way too many human weapons already. More isn't better; it's quite the contrary at times. Aftershock's arsenal was stupidly large, and it hurt the game from where I'm standing.
That said, modding in new weapons is pretty easy, but you'll run into a bit of a problem with the UFOPaedia writeups and their translations, as any mod-based articles aren't going to end up on the wiki.
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I agree. You want more punch? Equip the machine gun. Want accuracy? Use the sniper rifle. Magazine? Perhaps that would be clip differences. Have more than one clip available for use for a gun, like the grenade launcher. Some clips take more room and more TU to change clips, but hold more rounds, other clips are smaller, carry less, take less room, and dont take long to change.
Maybe its not the equipment that needs to change, just what goes into it. Model some clips, and see what people say
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Back on topic, though, what should we do with those latest models, Winter? I kind of like the gun myself, but not the rifle.
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I actually think there are way too many human weapons already. More isn't better; it's quite the contrary at times. Aftershock's arsenal was stupidly large, and it hurt the game from where I'm standing.
How can more choice hurt a game?
The most downloaded mods for UFO:AS, JA2 and similar games are weapon enhacement mods - mods that add more guns. If they hurt the game, you'd think other mods would be more popular.
A lot of choice (in this case guns) can only hurt the game if the impact of choice is meaningless - like having 30 assault rifles who's only difference between them is 1m of range or 1 point of damage. Now, if you have 3 rifles where the differences are bigger, to the point of actually being noticable, then you're golden.
EDIT: AAAAAARGH!!!!
I made a new handgun.. A friggin super one, makes the other one look like an utter pile of crap. I fell in love with the new gun. Now the scene got corrupted!!!!! I'll have to do it from scratch!
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Well, as with all things, moderation is key. 56 different assult rifle-class weapons would REALLY be bad, but being able to choose between 2 or 3, would not be bad. I would go with the one that is average in everything, or high in accuracy, but thats me. They say a widely diversified army will win in any situation.
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I'm one of the 'tons of guns' players in JA2 and other games, but BTAxis is right. We don't want to overwhelm the player with weapon choices, particularly between weapons in the same class which require weighing a lot of tiny factors, and especially not at the start of the game. It's vital to keep it simple for the benefit of all players, or at least introduce it simple. In general people mod in extra guns only after they're familiar with the main system and the primary arsenal.
Regards,
Winter
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Thanks Winter, that's precisely how I feel. I've been known to download mods that add more of everything too (modding is part of the fun of a game experience for me), but I wouldn't want a vanilla game to be that expansive. Cue my trusty case in point, the free open source game Advanced Strategic Command, a game modeled after Battle Isle 2 and 3 that is so rife with features, mechanics and content that it is impossible to get into.
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I'm one of the 'tons of guns' players in JA2 and other games, but BTAxis is right. We don't want to overwhelm the player with weapon choices, particularly between weapons in the same class which require weighing a lot of tiny factors, and especially not at the start of the game. It's vital to keep it simple for the benefit of all players, or at least introduce it simple. In general people mod in extra guns only after they're familiar with the main system and the primary arsenal.
I actually thought Tons of Guns was a bit of an overkill.
Too many guns, too many ammo types, really miniscule differences. But it did add some flare.
The ACM mod for UFO:AS is far better in that regard. Only 2-4 versions of some weapons, each significantly different.
That said, if a player is overwhelemed by having 3 assault rifles instead of 1 then that player is a retard and one has to wonder what is he doing playing a tactical and strategic game like UFO:AI in the first place, since that is nothing compared to managing several bases.
EDIT:
HA..re-did the thing.
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3788/automagvi.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=automagvi.jpg)
Half the polys, twice the awesome!
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HA..re-did the thing.
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3788/automagvi.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=automagvi.jpg)
Half the polys, twice the awesome!
I've got a feeling that it's going to look badass when it's textured.
From that angle, it doesn't look like a pistol, it looks like a hand-cannon.
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Inspired by Automag V ... .50 AE gun that puts the Desert Eagle to shame (and that's what the first, textured model actually is)
This is a more futuristic version
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AAahhh..some progress is being made
[attachment deleted by admin]
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WOW ! That looks deadly and awesome :)
I really like your models, it would be great to see them in game.
I have a suggestion for you - if your models cant be added into game because there aren't place for new weapons maybe you could try to remake/enhance current models? I think that your models have much better quality than current game models.
It will be shame if ufo:ai won't use your potential.
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We can't use an Automag, Desert Eagle or any other hand cannon in the main campaign because it's a civilian toy, not a military sidearm. PHALANX would never use it.
A genuinely useable battlefield pistol would be accepted, but then, nobody models what we actually need anymore.
Regards,
Winter
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The one I modeled doesn't actually exist at all, so the model is pretty much universal.
The first one (on the image with the rifle), does.
And I'd use it. I also hear some soldiers use it too.
And Phlanax would use it if it was effective against alien armor. It's all about the circumstances.
Which reminds me - has there been any changes in the main story, any refinements? Cause the current XVI virus thing is utterly terrible. Even worse than the UFO: AS "mating warships with mind control" bit, and that made me puke and put the game on the shelf.
I'll never get you people...never. All the talk about realism and you keep pulling stunts that irks me more than the unrealistic stuff in most other games....combined
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Nope, story remains unchanged.
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That's a damn shame... :'(
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Not really, no.
Regards,
Winter
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Yes really. Hate to be the one to tell you this, but that part of the UFO:AI story stinks to the High Heavens.
But anyway - you want the model or not?
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I guess so, if your licensing mumbo-jumbo is in order, as usual.
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Yes really. Hate to be the one to tell you this, but that part of the UFO:AI story stinks to the High Heavens.
I think I'll continue trusting my writing instincts over your opinions, especially given how absolutely god-awful your suggestions have been.
Regards,
Winter
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I think I'll continue trusting my writing instincts over your opinions, especially given how absolutely god-awful your suggestions have been.
It's your perogative to do so, but I don't consider my suggestions bad. Especially given that every single one of my mods I made got the highest ratings. So obviously I'm doing something right.
Also a note - in 9 years of modding and working on various projects, and being on a lot of forums, I've yet to recall anyone ever complaining (in JA2 and X-COM like games) about weapons like a minigun or desert eagle being in the game. I do recall them complaining they they weren't in tough.
EDIT:
Don't take this the wrong way Winter. I'm not exactly good at delivering critics (I'm too blunt and lack tact), but I just wanted to say that maybe everything isn't a perfect as you think it is. Self-criticism and constant improvements and re-evaluations are the only real way to go. Which is why I constantly re-work the things I made, again and again and again. (which reminds me, I'm working on a better texture for the XAW95 and the pistol, so I won't be able to send it over immediately. I'm also doing something for infinity so it may take a while.)
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Here you go - 4 modes and 3 textures.
2 pistols and 2 version of the rifle (only difference is the muzzle, for polygon reduction purposes)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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keep in mind that we accept almost everything - but not for the official campaign that winter and btaxis are creating. what they say is the law here. but that doesn't mean we won't add weapons to the game. multiplayer e.g. can use every weapon you are contributing. and you can also always write new campaigns that use existing and maybe also your new weapons.
btw. i've commited your stuff to data_source, now - what should be the real names for the weapons?
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Whatever you want them to be.
I actually named the better looking pistol Automag VI, but feel free to name it something different.
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Hi. Can you upload a simple preview.
I test importing them into Blender, but i am a noob, and the result is untextured :-/
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(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7348/ufoguns.th.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/ufoguns.jpg/)
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thx a lot
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Hello,
I like your models very much (this and previous).
I really hope that you will get along with Winter & Btaxis and you will create some models which will be added into official campaign. It would be shame if ufo:ai couldn't use your modelling skills.
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0.02€
Your Automag IV is more or less a hand cannon but IIRC PHALANX are looking for a short sniper rifle instead of a hand cannon, ie. they care more about the penetrating capability than the pure stopping power. I have to say it looks cool though.
The Generic Pistol (GP) is more what a standart issue sidearm looks like and pretty well made. I'm not sure if the bullets desing affects its penetration but if it is what gives the Five-Seven its (supposedly) good penetration I'd suggest making the magazine and the grip somewhat longer (for a longer and possibly thinner bullet).
Isn't that assault rifle FA-MAS?
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Heh. Hey Trashman.
Wow, those look good.
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0.02€
Your Automag IV is more or less a hand cannon but IIRC PHALANX are looking for a short sniper rifle instead of a hand cannon, ie. they care more about the penetrating capability than the pure stopping power. I have to say it looks cool though.
The Generic Pistol (GP) is more what a standart issue sidearm looks like and pretty well made. I'm not sure if the bullets desing affects its penetration but if it is what gives the Five-Seven its (supposedly) good penetration I'd suggest making the magazine and the grip somewhat longer (for a longer and possibly thinner bullet).
Isn't that assault rifle FA-MAS?
The pistol on the bottom is a made up-one. High-tech stuff.
The above pistol is modeled after Automag V (in fact, uses a edited photo of the gun for a texture)
The assualt rifle is a modeled after the experimental prototype of the VHS rifle. The final rifle ended up looking differently (that model I uploaded far earlier) and lost some of the cool new techs (like the anti-recoil system), probably to make it cheaper.