UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: Destructavator on August 29, 2009, 01:03:33 am
-
I've been playing with exports from the new MakeHuman and 3rd party Blender scripts, and finally came up with a much better base model for new heads. Only 182 verts and 212 faces! ...And this mesh isn't messy like the past ones!
Now to add textures, coming up later...
-
cool - make sure to also upload the source for the reference head - so others can use it, too to make new heads.
-
Here's where its gotten to so far - the high-poly version on the left will have details, then be made into a texture that will be plastered onto the low-poly copy on the right.
Hair shouldn't be too hard, once I get to that point, as I've done that before.
The .blend file is also attached, even though it isn't finished, just for backup purposes, although others are welcome to play with it at this point if they know Blender.
-
I've hit a problem I'm a bit stumped on - how to paint the ears on without having it look awful. I don't want to add a structure that would add lots of polys, but this is how it came out so far.
The .blend file is also attached if anyone wants to try fixing it.
-
Ha! Got a new low-poly version with ears and it actually has less polys, only 117 verts!
Still a work in progress...
-
Alright! A nice low-poly on the right (the high-detail on the left), and the low-poly version only has 118 verts!
I've also generated various hair textures, coming soon...
-
Added some hair - Hmmm... This guy might be wearing a helmet a lot until I figure out how to make it look better. :P
-
Really better.
Maybe if you use squares instead of triangles, you lose quality, or use more vertices, or both. It is what we can see on your first head.
-
Model is good. Textures are not.
Good work. Keep going
-
...And the first versions are done!
I wouldn't call these totally finished, but at this point they could potentially be exported and put into the game.
As usual, I'll need Winter to give these a look-see and find out what he wants changed/fixed/axed/whatever.
Also as usual, I also welcome constructive criticism from anyone else, although Winter decides what really goes in the game.
Once these get changed and improved to the point of being approved for the game, I already have ideas for more facial shapes, haircuts, etc.
Imposeren, could you be a little more specific on what you think the textures need?
-
Oops! Hang on, I forgot the eyebrows! :P
-
Ah, there, I think that looks better.
-
export them to md2 please - i would like to see them in-game.
-
Here's the model in MD2 format, with four textures for different hair colors.
I attempted to attach a TAG at the base of the head for attaching the model to a body in-game, but I'm a bit confused trying to figure out how to export the TAGs properly with the export script, and I don't know how to test it in-game either. I'll see if I can figure it out better a little later, and sometime later today I'll also upload and link to source Blender files which are ~60MB in size (compressed).
This model will of course need to be scaled, and currently the textures are 512x512 pixels in TGA format, I hope that's not too big or a bad format - if it is please let me know.
-
heads don't need tags - only the body
-
heads don't need tags - only the body
Ah! OK, that makes things easier - for the heads at least. :D
-
but we should add google and cap with tags no?
-
that's a little overkill imo - different models would be better here - a google model wouldn't fit every head out there anyway. they must be adopted in general to fit the head
-
but we should add google and cap with tags no?
that's a little overkill imo - different models would be better here - a google model wouldn't fit every head out there anyway. they must be adopted in general to fit the head
Sorry, I have no idea what either of you are talking about - is it something I need to worry about before continuing work on this?
-
we have e.g. night vision goggles - bayo was suggesting to place them with a tag on the head models - a tag is giving a rotation and position where to place another model (that's why it's only needed for the body, the head is placed on the tag_head of the body) - but using e.g. the goggles with a tag wouldn't work because we are using many different head shapes - the goggles just wouldn't fit each. so if we plan to model the goggles part we have to add them to each of the head models - one by one.
-
OK, I see your point.
Did you have a chance to try the models in-game? I noticed there weren't any downloads of the MD2 zip file I posted (my last post on the first page of the thread). As I said in that post, if the graphics format for the UV textures aren't good, please let me know and I will convert them as needed. To me they look OK in Blender, but I don't know how they would look in the game.
(If anyone does test these in-game, please post a screenshot of how they came out.)
-
Here's another set of heads, different haircut, 4 textures for different hair colors. This time I got them into much smaller JPGs.
-
i will try asap - currently work is really time consuming.... sorry and thanks for the new heads. will post screenshots soon
-
Hi Destructavator. Well ... this is it =) 1st thing I can say - aliase was wrong. The one in the corner is visible only because I change it. In original md2 it was red (I mean FULL RED - no texture). Now it is visible, but still no head on the model. But I must tell you - it was tested on 2.2.1.
-
OK, thanks for trying it - when you say the "aliase" is wrong, what exactly do you mean? Is there a problem because the first download has 512x512 TGA graphics? Also, when you fixed it, what did you do exactly to make it work in the corner?
The other download I posted has smaller JPG graphics for the texture, different format - do you get similar or different results with the other one?
-
Well, as I understand it, no need of ".TGA" in aliase, but it need dot before name to show path - so it is ".Head1_Red". Mattin tell you beter then I. And I'm more than assured - the head is in the torso =) Wrong space offset. And if you ask me (no offence) - texture mapped horrible - why it made of peaces? It leave black line between them - look at the screenshot! =
-
I edit it a bit and put it up - here is a result =) It is too little. Since the head attached to head_tag on the model (which is neck) as Mattin sad, you shoud put the head upper the center. And with old tag (I guess head scale is somewhere in the body tag) you need make model bigger.
-
yes - the export is a little bit too small ;)
you should rescale them (import one of the existing md2 heads and use their size - also make sure to export that part that should be put onto the tag_head of the body at 0,0,0 in your modeller (best is to move the pivot there).
-
OK, these things shouldn't be too hard to fix. I'll get to work on it.
-
OK, Here, try these.
Everything has been re-scaled, re-textured, and re-positioned.
Notice in the Blender screen shot that the textures no longer have ugly visible seams. (The middle black one is the low-poly MD2 without any of the four textures applied, don't worry about it.)
Edit: I exported the textures as JPEGs, I can't figure out why they don't display properly in the game (shown in the other screen shot, I edited the .ufo files to try to test in 2.3.)
-
Whoa! I re-exported the texture and got it to display in-game (2.3), and the good news is the size and position looks OK, but the lighting is totally effed-up, just on the head.
I've been using the modified MD2 export script for blender that's in the trunk SVN, under tools, I'm not sure if that's what the issue is or not.
-
Well, I've loaded the MD2 I made in other modeling programs, they show the model and texture just fine, but after re-exporting and trying to view it in-game, it still shows way too brightly.
If anyone else wants to try, the latest models are in that post on the second page (at the bottom).
-
maybe progressive jpegs? try tgas - also make sure to set the four skins as .texture1, .texture2, .texture3 and .texture4
-
thx for this funny screenshots :)
-
maybe progressive jpegs? try tgas - also make sure to set the four skins as .texture1, .texture2, .texture3 and .texture4
Well, I'm stumped - it seems the clunky MD2 export script for Blender is broken. I did some research on it, just yesterday they released a new version update for Blender with a new MD2 export script, and it still doesn't work right, the model in-game has way too much light and brightness.
I looked at the discussion in Blender forums on the updated MD2 script, apparently I'm not the only one having this issue, the new release was supposed to fix it - I saw the Python code but have no knowledge or skill whatsoever in programming in Python, so I can't fix it.
As for "set the four skins..." the script doesn't even have that feature, it gives only three options: one for the desired MD2 output filename, one for the animation file, and one for a texture path.
This python script for Blender is clearly not working for UFO: AI and is far beyond my expertise to fix.
Migel got the texture to display right on the earlier versions I posted that simply had the wrong scale and position.
@Migel: If you're reading this, would you please explain how you fixed the MD2 texture? What software tool did you use and how did you do it? I obviously can't get it to work from Blender, tried for hours, and of all the zillions of other MD2 tools out there I have no idea which one could convert it or fix it.
I was able to import the MD2 into MisFit Model 3d, another modeling program on SourceForge, but I can't figure out how to fix the texture within it.
-
you have seen the export script that hoehrer commited to our svn? it somewhere in src/tools
-
you have seen the export script that hoehrer commited to our svn? it somewhere in src/tools
ah, there? I was looking for it recently. I thought it must be in contrib/scripts but it wasn't..
-geever
-
you have seen the export script that hoehrer commited to our svn? it somewhere in src/tools
Yes, and that one doesn't work either, at least with the latest version of Blender.
Edit: ..Unless I'm improperly testing the models - I tried to test them in-game by editing "team_humans.ufo" under "ufos" under "base." Was this the wrong way to test it?
-
Ah-Ha! I'm on to something! ;D
In the SVN there are two customized python scripts for exporting to MD2 from Blender - the one I was using was meant for old versions, the one meant for newer releases of Blender crapped out with an error message every time so I never used it.
I actually looked at the error message carefully, and thought to myself "Well, I don't know python, but what the hell, I'll look at the line of code it is complaining about..."
Surprise, surprise - It turns out one of the authors of the customized export plugin has a non-American foreign name that contains a non-ASCII character, an "e" with one of those marks above it. This non-standard character in the authors name (listed in the info part of the file) was confusing the compiler and causing the plug-in to bomb out with an error and never start.
The old code (before I changed it):
__version__ = '0.1'
__author__ = [ 'Damien Thébault', 'Erwan Mathieu' ]
__url__ = [ 'https://metabolsim.no-ip.org/trac/metabolsim' ]
__email__ = [ 'Damien Thébault <damien!thebault#laposte!net>', 'Erwan Mathieu <cyberwan#laposte!net>' ]
Notice the funky "e" is on two lines (Damien's last name), and Blender was complaining about both of them. I changed it (no offense to the author) to this:
__version__ = '0.1'
__author__ = [ 'Damien Thebault', 'Erwan Mathieu' ]
__url__ = [ 'https://metabolsim.no-ip.org/trac/metabolsim' ]
__email__ = [ 'Damien Thebault <damien!thebault#laposte!net>', 'Erwan Mathieu <cyberwan#laposte!net>' ]
...And now the plugin loads properly and runs!
It also gives me more export options - Now to see if it will make the MD2 display properly in the game...
P.S. - I'd suggest someone with SVN access update the python script with this fix so the plug-in runs without crashing.
-
What software tool did you use and how did you do it?
I'm useing Milkshape, and I can recompile this models. It will be much easier then fixin export script.
-
I'm useing Milkshape, and I can recompile this models. It will be much easier then fixin export script.
Great! Thanks, I think that's a big help for now until some coder has time to work on the scripts.
-
i can take a look at the script, but i am not sure i can fix something.
Anyway, IMO the head must have a right scale and right origin (into Blender), i dont think the script can do anything for it.
Then maybe it is a good idea to create a Blender file with a "template" (the size of 1 metter; common size of an actor, head...). But i dont know Blender. In Blender, do you model with an SI unit? or do you model with an abstract unit?
-
i can take a look at the script, but i am not sure i can fix something.
Anyway, IMO the head must have a right scale and right origin (into Blender), i dont think the script can do anything for it.
Then maybe it is a good idea to create a Blender file with a "template" (the size of 1 metter; common size of an actor, head...). But i dont know Blender. In Blender, do you model with an SI unit? or do you model with an abstract unit?
Thanks for offering to help fix the script.
I don't think the problem is scale or orientation anymore, if you look again at this latest screenshot, the scale is almost right and the head is facing in the proper direction, but the problem is how the export handles the material texture. As you can see in this picture, the head is lit up very brightly with tons of light, reflecting much more light than it should. The body of course looks normal, one of the old, existing body models.
I don't know if the export script has an issue with specular or lighting settings or what, but it just exports with way too much brightness.
-
Now I'll tell you my version of it. Maybe I miss something or don't understand - feel free to correct me. MD2 is just mech, it have no bones, no lightmap, just polygons. As I told you, I test it on 2.2.1 - and found no problems, but the texture is just to bright. In 2.3 I have the same problem as you, but I'm sure that it no more bright than the texture! And that's it! But don't you think that the brightness itself is too high - look at the old body - it's glowing!
-
Check this out. I play a bit with gamma\brightness\contrast in game - model is fine and the texture is ok (all but alliace - wrong again in FlatTop.md2, last post of 2nd page. How did you make them?). Default brigtness is bad.
-
Now I'll tell you my version of it. Maybe I miss something or don't understand - feel free to correct me. MD2 is just mech, it have no bones, no lightmap, just polygons. As I told you, I test it on 2.2.1 - and found no problems, but the texture is just to bright. In 2.3 I have the same problem as you, but I'm sure that it no more bright than the texture! And that's it! But don't you think that the brightness itself is too high - look at the old body - it's glowing!
Check this out. I play a bit with gamma\brightness\contrast in game - model is fine and the texture is ok (all but alliace - wrong again in FlatTop.md2, last post of 2nd page. How did you make them?). Default brigtness is bad.
I did some research on this issue - If I got all my information right, the problem lies in how the python export script for Blender tells Blender the brightness of the texture, normal graphics used for the texture, such as Jpeg, TGA, whatever - they have a color value range for all colors (red, blue, green) of 0 to 255, total of 256 possible values.
The Quake MD2 format uses a range of 0 to 162, a total of 163 possible values for each color, according to some research on the net.
Somehow the color values aren't being converted or read properly, and as Migel said, the default brightness is bad, getting mucked up by the buggy python export script for Blender. I looked again at the python script, but, not knowing how to program in python, I can't make heads or tails of the code. I did find a line with the number "162" in the code, in a spot where I think the code is faulty, but I don't know how to correct it.
I have a feeling the faulty Blender export script isn't converting the color values between the two ranges (0 to 256 and 0 to 162) properly, which shoves the default brightness way too high. In other words, I think the python script is telling the MD2 to incorrectly read the texture, with too much brightness.
I'm attaching the Jpeg skin texture, as you can see the brightness of the texture in this graphic file doesn't look way too bright, this is how Blender creates the texture file in Jpeg format. I also loaded this Jpeg texture in GIMP and checked the stats of it, I couldn't find anything wrong or out of the ordinary with it.
Of course I could be wrong on many of these points, anyone is free to correct me, but this is my best guess.
Edit: Did some more research on the MD2 format, it contains a "LightNormalIndex" property, which I think is messed up because of the faulty python export script.
-
I read a little about MD2, but the 162 limitation have nothing to do with texture. Anyway it make no sens to only use 0..162 for each color components.
But i also read this model contain normal per vertices. You can have a problem with normal description (Blender, but i dont think) or normal generation (Python script). Maybe it exists some tool to check MD2 normals.
----
Hoo and if you can rotate the texture, to have a more natural orientation of the face, maybe it can be usefull for next artists.
-
I read a little about MD2, but the 162 limitation have nothing to do with texture. Anyway it make no sens to only use 0..162 for each color components.
OK, I misunderstood some of what I researched then. Thanks for checking that out for me.
But i also read this model contain normal per vertices. You can have a problem with normal description (Blender, but i dont think) or normal generation (Python script). Maybe it exists some tool to check MD2 normals.
I think its the python export script - It displays fine in Blender, and I heard other people have had similar problems with the normal generation with various versions of that script, from what I researched, in some cases resulting in the same problem with the amount of lighting and brightness.
Lots of MD2 tools are out there, I'll see if I can find one that can fix or at least analyze this.
Hoo and if you can rotate the texture, to have a more natural orientation of the face, maybe it can be usefull for next artists.
Won't be necessary - Once we get past these issues and a test MD2 imports into the game OK, I'll upload full source files for all the textures, texture groups, and components used to build the face and all its parts. Then anyone who uses Blender can easily re-construct their own version of the face texture, much easier than taking that rendered texture and trying to draw on it. It would all go into the data source, although we're not quite there yet because these issues with the lighting/normals still need to be worked out.
@Migel: If you happen to be reading this, could you please upload (attach in a post) a fixed, working version of the model and texture that displays properly in the game? I'd like to compare it side by side with my version that comes out of Blender, to try and get a few more clues on how to solve these issues.
-
Can you check https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-blender/trunk/blender/release/scripts/md2_export.py ?
If it dont work, i need to have your last Blender file, and a little help to know how to export the head myself.
-
Nope, I tried this latest script and it still shows way too much brightness.
Before digging deeper into what the python script is doing, perhaps I'm not testing it in the game properly - I only modified one .ufo file, the "team_humans.ufo" file, so it reads like this:
models {
female {
soldiers/female body head01a 0
soldiers/female body head01b 0
soldiers/female body head01c 0
soldiers/female body head03a 0
soldiers/female body head03b 0
}
male {
soldiers/male body head01a 0
soldiers/male body head01b 0
soldiers/male body head02a 0
soldiers/male body head02b 0
soldiers/male body head03a 0
soldiers/male body head03b 0
soldiers/male body FlatTop 0
}
}
Am I doing this right? (The md2 is called "FlatTop.md2".)
-
yes - that is right:
"body head skinnum"
but for the final version please make sure that they match the naming scheme ;)
-
I test md2 normals with a hacked tool.
Your export (i use your md2 from http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=3996.msg30262#msg30262)
(image with black hair) look better than the default blender md2 export (i use http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4040.msg30475#msg30475 with the default Blender export).
Anyway i dont think this normal "error" create the brightness.
Mattn, can it be a problem with shaders? And can we export the same model into md3 to test ingame?
-
Mattn, can it be a problem with shaders? And can we export the same model into md3 to test ingame?
I've wondered myself if UFO:AI isn't displaying the models right, because I've loaded my exported MD2s into other graphic engines and they display properly.
I've also tried loading the existing models into various editors, they also display OK, and I can't seem to find differences between them and my own MD2s.
-
Destructavator, listen, you realy get me wrong. I can swear there is no problem with the model, ONLY PROBLEM IS THE SKIN!!!
And the brightness in game of course. To show you that I draw quick skin - check it (it not pretending on anything but to test). Test it with your model. Even with that awful brightness it shows normally. MD2 have no lightmap.
-
By the way, about brightness - try to drop brightness to 0 and look at the models - some affected more, than the other, and some are not affected at all. Same for contrast. Are they useing different shaders?
-
yeaa, looking another head skin, the brightness look like the Migel skin.
-
Migel, I've got to hand it to you - I think you're closer to the right answer than the rest of us.
I cranked down the brightness in Blender before export, this latest shot is how it came out.
The only issue I have now is that inside Blender the model looks very dark of course.
I guess we could add it to the wiki, that if anyone creates a model in Blender and wants to export it for UFO:AI, that they should turn the brightness way down before export.
Edit: This was done by turning the light reflection level for the textures, inside Blender, from 1.0 down to 0.6 in the materials.
-
But now model (head and body) is very bright too. Or do I missed something?
-
But now model (head and body) is very bright too. Or do I missed something?
These are with the default game video settings.
There's actually another thread about the default (global) brightness being too intense.
-
I guess we could add it to the wiki, that if anyone creates a model in Blender and wants to export it for UFO:AI, that they should turn the brightness way down before export.
I think there is no need for that. When the global brightness will be set to normal problem will be solved by itself. As for now I suggest you test your model on both 2.3 and 2.2.1 versions. 2.2.1 is old, but it's stable, and show skins right.
-
can't you just export the texture without any light effects applied by blender?
-
Destructavator:
> These are with the default game video settings.
But all chrome looks good. The problems only with models. Or is there any special model-related brightness?
PS: MAy be we should split this tread?
-
can't you just export the texture without any light effects applied by blender?
Yes and no. I understand what you're asking quite clearly, but with the way Blender works and renders the material textures, it would look like total shit, at least in this case. Blender does have a "shadeless" option for special uses, but I've worked with Blender long enough to know that with the way this model is set up it is a bad idea, long story short. (I could go into the long version, with examples and paragraph after paragraph, but don't want to waste the time right now.)
I haven't played 2.2.1 in a long time, but I'll download it and try this head model with that version and look at the difference. As some in this forum have said, 2.2.1 arguably has a better default brightness with everything (models, maps, GUI, etc.) balanced better.
-
but with the way Blender works and renders the material textures...
I don't get it. Is this some kind of autoskin?
-
I don't get it. Is this some kind of autoskin?
I'm not sure what an "autoskin" is - please forgive me, as I haven't done modeling for as long as most modelers have.
I will say that I've tried doing textures without lighting properties before in Blender, they come out awful, again long story short. I also haven't tried other modeling programs, so I can't compare with how other software does textures.
Edit: The way this model is set up it actually does it in several steps, because I start with a high-detail and high-poly model with various textures, and in the end it eventually gets mapped onto a low-poly model exported to MD2.
-
:D I mean don't you draw this skin by youself? Or it is Blender make the texture? I never work with Blender...
-
I can try to draw a few skins then I finish my armour...
-
Got it!!! ;D
This is in 2.2.1.
Also attached are the heads in MD2 format.
To answer your question Migel, no, I don't hand-draw anything, I don't have that type of artistic ability, heck, I can't even take a pencil and draw a proper stick figure worth a d***. I create a high-detail high-poly texture with Blender's built-in texture creation tools, then plaster the details onto the low-poly version. As an example: For the eyes, I render several circle meshes of different sizes and colors, render it to a plane, then use that for an eye. The original circles have different patterns, not always just solid colors. I start with the tiny picky stuff, then build it into the bigger model, then create the low-poly version to map everything to.
-
Migel please also attach the skins - not only screenshots. i would like to commit them to our repo, too
-
Migel please also attach the skins - not only screenshots
Of course, but I don't like this one. I can do better, but I need some time. This was drawn in 20min.
-
I'll upload my Blender source files shortly, for building the texture parts as well as the models themselves (the low and high-poly).
I'd like to point out that a program called "Misfit Model 3D" which is on sourceforge, another modeling program, isn't as sophisticated as Blender but can directly edit MD2 files including texture and skin data details (such as number of skins, what file name to use for each skin, etc.)
@Migel, I almost forgot - *Thank You!* - you saved us a lot of trouble trying to tear apart the code of the python export script and muck around with a lot of other technical "shtuff" trying to figure out where the problem was.
P.S. - Oh dear, I forgot to mention this: I changed the UV mapping a bit to utilize more space and also rotated the whole thing 90 degrees. If you are going to provide extra skins, please base them off of the ones in the latest zip file I just posted, otherwise they won't map properly onto the mesh. (Or, as an alternative, we could just use two versions of the MD2, the old one and the new, with different file names, if you've already started new skins and don't want to start over.)
-
Thank You
I'm glad I could help ;D
-
please use the same rotation as the existing heads
-
Well, here's the source files, in one package:
http://www.destructavator.com/92dl/Head_FlatTop.zip
please use the same rotation as the existing heads
Do you mean you want me to go back and re-map and re-export all the stuff to the older version? It's more than just rotation - some of the vert coordinates were changed too, because I was fixing some stuff in the way the texture was mapped.
Edit: Never mind, I fixed it and I'm uploading it now...
-
i suppose they are gpl 2 or later, too?
-
there are md2 + jpeg and an md2.zip (all in the md2 subfolder) - which ones are the correct files?
it it all the same mesh and only the skins differ? because you also uploaded four md2 files instead of adding four skins to one md2 file
-
there are md2 + jpeg and an md2.zip (all in the md2 subfolder) - which ones are the correct files?
it it all the same mesh and only the skins differ? because you also uploaded four md2 files instead of adding four skins to one md2 file
Sorry about that - I fixed this in the package I'm still uploading right now, it'll be a few minutes.
i suppose they are gpl 2 or later, too?
Yes! I forgot about the license, thanks for mentioning it!
-
Here it is:
http://www.destructavator.com/92dl/FlatTop_Heads_4Tex.zip
-
I was have a bit of free time and draw a skin. Check this out.
-
Nice! More skins == more variety, which is a good thing.
Can you make additional variants that have hair in different colors?
The more skins for the new heads, I think the better.
if (numberSkinsForNewHeads > oldNumberSkinsForNewHeads)
{
numberSoldiersThatLookLikeClones-= (numberSkinsForNewHeads - oldNumberSkinsForNewHeads);
playerEnjoymentWithGame++;
gameGetsBoring=false;
} else
{
gameGetsBoring=true;
player.complain(L"These soldiers all look like clones!");
player.vomit();
}
(Sorry, I'm in a weird mood, but you get the idea...)
-
sure, but you really should rotate the skin.