UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: legend_c4a@yahoo.com on January 21, 2008, 05:32:45 pm
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how do you use the first aid kits?
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how do you use the first aid kits?
You cannot use it on yourself. So stand with a teammate next to the wounded one, and use it (heal option - the pack must be in the medic"s hands).
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By the way guys, how about some balancing here?
Healing the soldiers in hospital is good idea, but it's very slow -- especially when I can get to the battlefield with my wounded troops, and heal them there with medicpacks instead.
In my opinion the hospital way is more realistic.
I liked the ufo1-ufo2 way with mortal wounds, but I could be happy with almost anything else too. For example the heal of the pack could be temporary; the plus hit points could disappear with time or after the end of the mission.
Opinions?
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I Like the idea that Medipacks heal temporary (That is to say from a realistic view not a player view, lol), But I think Hospitals need either improved to work a little faster or Faster with more Doctors, Or a way to research faster healing techiques and Tech's (Ala Nano-technology and Cloned organs lol). But yeah the Temporary healing sounds more balanced for medi-packs.
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Yes for temporary healing, otherwise the hospital and the medics are mostly a waste of space and money.
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The way they were handled in X-COM was probably the perfect use for them. Heal critical wounds and stop people bleeding to death, but only granting a small amount of health back.
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What about percentage Healing?
If your soldier gets wounded lightly you can heal let's say 50%-70% of the damage.
The more serious the case the less percentage you can heal on the battlefield.
That also prevents "temporal healing" from actually kill the soldiers or let him have negative health (if possible for the variable) after the mission.
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The way medikits are handled right now, percentages would have te be coded somehow...I agree to the effect, that hospitals and medics are quite useless right now. Once the skill advancement is fully implemented, I would completely agree to temporary healing. But I think to greatly reduce the effectiveness of the medipacks would dangerously increase the amount of losses in battle...and I think UFO:AI in difficult enough right now. Just take into consideration, that loosing an experienced soldier (lets say 20+ missions) a catastophic event... you are absolutely dependant on vets to stay competetive...
I might have to add, that i really like to play the game with elite troops and i like to see them getting better and competetive...
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I agree with the above, right now I find myself destroying the hospital buildings and putting something else there, and the implants button is just a tease for me as well. For right now, Id rather save the money spent on the hospitals and medics and just hire another soldier when one dies.
But I do like the idea, maybe if healing was instantaneous instead, and the implants were more of a temporary enhancement, like sterroids. Then there can be certain types of enhancements, such as accuracy, speed, etc.
In fact I just got a starcraft idea in my head, and give the soldiers in the mission some stimpacks to give them a boost of TUs for a round or two with the loss of some valuable health. Of course the above would have to be researchable, but it would be a nice fun feature to have.
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Do doctors currently have any function?
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To heal, at a medicaid or hmo sort of rate.
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To heal, at a medicaid or hmo sort of rate.
Huh? ???
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I think stedly means that the doctors will heal you, eventually, after ALL the paperwork is filled out, provided they can't find a loophole to avoid helping you. In other words, at a very, very slow rate.
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healing system in x-com 1 and 2 was perfect cant see any way of making it better. Altough i quite liked the ability to revive dead soldiers in ufo:aftershock
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Built my first hospital, found it far from valuable. My injured Operatives are just sitting there basically healing at the same rate they would elsewhere. I'm attempting a medikit operation on the next mission, while i've got a congregation of troops at the ship, I'll follow the red cross sign on the wall and medikit my operatives up.
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I agree with the old XCom style - fatal wounds and all. However if this is to be implemented, there was one terrible limitation - in Xcom you cannot send injured soldiers out onto missions. IMHO this should really be avoided as risk management should be left to the player.
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I like the X-COM system, too. Also, wounded soldiers had a handicap to their abilities. Of course, it's up to the developers if they want to be 'inspired' by the system, or try to use their own system that works. :)
Me, I think it makes sense that soldiers would not be allowed on missions until the doctors clear them. I'd sometimes accidentally bring a trooper along who had only a dozen hitpoints, and I'd wonder "Why did anybody even allow him on the plane? He must be limping and have to change his bandages every day."
Of course, in X-Com, because hospital time was based on number of HP lost, my more experienced soldiers were bedridden a lot longer than rookies were (assuming they survived). I think percentage of HP lost would be a better algorithm.
Oh, one addition to the hospital screen should be a countdown to when the soldier would be fully healed.
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I prefer the X-Com system as well. You should only be able to heal mortal wounds with the medikit (and if we're not implimenting mortal wounds, up to a % of the soldier's health). There is seriously no reason to build and equip comparatively expensive hospital facilities when you can near insta-heal your soldiers on the field.
I also agree that risk management should be left to the player. Being deprived of the use of your soldier while he recouperates is needlessly annoying.
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I also agree that risk management should be left to the player. Being deprived of the use of your soldier while he recouperates is needlessly annoying.
Sometimes a 2 HP soldier is all you need to keep the aliens busy "sniping" while you flank them.
Edit: Oh, and more importantly the soldiers aren't just a waste of quarters.
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An idea for balancing Medikits without deviating too much from the current system:
Keep track of two health values, one for in-mission, one for after-mission. When a soldier gets hurt, both go down. When a medikit is used, it has its current effect on in-mission health, but only, say, half as much for after-mission health. When the soldier gets back to base, he's treated as though he has the after-mission health (with a minimum of 1, if he survived the mission but wound up with 0 or less after-mission hp remaining).
As an example to illustrate what i mean:
1) Shooty McSoldier goes into a mission with 100 health.
2) At one point in that mission, he takes a Plasma blast for 60 damage. Both in-mission and after-mission scores are reduced to (100-60=) 40.
3) A buddy uses a Medikit on Shooty McSoldier, restoring 50 health. The game shows him as being at (40+50=) 90 health for the purpose of the mission, but records him as being at only (40+25=) 65 for after-mission.
4) Shooty McSoldier finishes the mission without further healing or injury.
5) When he gets back to base, Shooty McSoldier is treated for the purpose of healing and future mission hp as though he were wounded down to 65, requiring 35 damage worth of hospital time to come back to his full 100.
The in-mission vs. after-mission health could be demonstrated on the interface in a number of ways. The after-mission health could just be hidden (AFAIK requiring no actual change to the interface). Another way would be to have the after-mission health in one color, with the rest of the in-mission health in a slightly different color: e.g. in the example above, Shooty McSoldier's hp bar could be red in the 1-65 part of the block and red-orange in the 66-90 part.
The fraction healed could also easily be changed from 1/2, since I mostly just used that for an example. The medikit could very well do nothing to after-mission health, for example.
A good thing to add to this would be to not allow a medikit to heal a soldier beyond what he started the mission with. So if Shooty McSoldier goes on a mission immediately, he'd be shown has having 65 health (both in-mission and after-mission), but the medikit would do nothing if used right away. If he gets shot again, a medikit would not bring his in-mission health above 65. In other words, that 35 damage remaining from his first mission could only be healed in the Hospital.
Just a thought. I love the game, and think the developers are doing a great job, so I'm just trying to help a little bit when I see something that could use a little tweaking ;)
Edit: Geez, now I find a similar suggestion in another forum. I look for an hour, and only find it after I've made the post :-[
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This is in reply to the above post (didn't want to quote that huge block).
Ok, so now we can say Shooty has 65/90 HP. The question is, what happens when Shooty gets another 60 damage hit? Does he have 30/5 HP? Is he dead? What happens if he then gets another 20 hit? If he's not dead then, is it just for the mission? Does he go to 0 HP?
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This is in reply to the above post (didn't want to quote that huge block).
Ok, so now we can say Shooty has 65/90 HP. The question is, what happens when Shooty gets another 60 damage hit? Does he have 30/5 HP? Is he dead? What happens if he then gets another 20 hit? If he's not dead then, is it just for the mission? Does he go to 0 HP?
If his in-mission hp goes to 0, he'd be dead. So if Shooty takes another 60-damage hit, he'd be down to 30 in-mission and 5 post-mission. If he takes another 20 beyond that, he'd be at 10 in-mission and -15 after-mission.
Part of my suggestion was that, if something like this were to happen, the soldier would be treated as though he had 1hp left when he got back to base and began making the Medics earn their pay. I figure that if a field-portable medikit can keep him alive and in combat shape, then they'd probably have the means to keep him alive long enough to get him somewhere that he can be stabilized and then shipped back to HQ ;)
That's just one way to handle it, of course
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Yes, that's how I would imagine it too. But what about multiple heals? could a soldier have 100 in-Mission HP and -372 post-mission HP. I think not.
Also, I think soldiers with post-mission HP less than 0 should have a chance of dying after the mission, proportional to the absolute value of their post mission HP and the amount of time it takes to get back to base (perhaps give them a chance of death every 5 seconds?)
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I Like the idea that Medipacks heal temporary (That is to say from a realistic view not a player view, lol), But I think Hospitals need either improved to work a little faster or Faster with more Doctors, Or a way to research faster healing techiques and Tech's (Ala Nano-technology and Cloned organs lol). But yeah the Temporary healing sounds more balanced for medi-packs.
I like the idea of medipacks providing temporary hitpoints that go away at the end of the missing (perhaps not a 100% reduction though). In x-com the medpack was used to keep people from bleeding to death and curing stun damage. The fact that both in UFO:AI and X-com the medipack is a very important piece of equipment that can keep your guys together is a sign the developers know what they are doing. Another issue regarding balancing med packs is that remember, in x-com you started with***DRUM ROLL*** snazzy looking jumpsuits as your uniform (not armor) while in UFO:AI you can get battle armor, which is better than nothing. On the normal difficulty my guys, if lucky can survive two hits, that is...before getting healed.
Another way to balance medipacks would just to give them a limited number of charges! Give them 4 charges or something.
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Altough i quite liked the ability to revive dead soldiers in ufo:aftershock
hehe i dont like this idea for "normal" soldiers, but maybe one day we have massive amounts of implants, and then
it would just be a matter of repairing those implants, rather than healing the guy in question ... ;)
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I also agree that risk management should be left to the player. Being deprived of the use of your soldier while he recouperates is needlessly annoying.
Sure, but the soldier's name should be in a different color or something to let the player know that the soldier in not up to snuff. When i was a new player i lost a few guys when i shipped them back out not knowing they were still injured. Perhaps the default behavior should be to remove injured soldiers from the dropship, and post a warning when injured soldiers are put back on the plane.
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Do doctors currently have any function?
You've probably already sorted this out, but for the benefit of future forum visitors:
Doctors accomplish nothing outside of a hospital, and the hospital accomplishes nothing without a doctor in it. My personal feeling is that he should then live in the hospital and free up vital living quarters... As to questions of how long the healing takes, outside the hospital seems to be limited to one HP per day. In the hospital allows more. I may not be reading the code right, but it looks like the daily healing rate in hospital = 1 + [Strength/10].
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You've probably already sorted this out, but for the benefit of future forum visitors:
Doctors accomplish nothing outside of a hospital, and the hospital accomplishes nothing without a doctor in it. My personal feeling is that he should then live in the hospital and free up vital living quarters... As to questions of how long the healing takes, outside the hospital seems to be limited to one HP per day. In the hospital allows more. I may not be reading the code right, but it looks like the daily healing rate in hospital = 1 + [Strength/10].
Thats not a bad idea Doctor J.
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A medicaid or hmo sort of rate for the first aid kit? How is it then and what would be the better one for handling those first aid kit? and one thing more, what is hmo?
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I think this conversation was moved to http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=2216.0 a while ago. Somehow. Maybe.