Winning conditions at base defense

[hoiba]

Hey everybody!

I'm in a tough situation. .. one of my bases is under attack by a bomber (the first one within this specific game though). I had NO soldiers at the base at this specific moment.. so I fast hired 12 green guys and gave them whatever equip was available at the market. To help defending the base, I teared down the two laboratories. This limits the base access to the main entrance and the power plant.

Well... thats all fine.. I have enough rounds to set up the base defense before aliens start to enter the base... but I have to be very careful because the green guys are damn poor at their weapons. So I have to wait some rounds to get a perfect opportunity to ambush the aliens already inside base (who are most likely inside the power plant) ...

Today I experienced some kind of "sudden death" .. alien round ended, mine started but immediately all of my guys died and the base was gone.

Is there a winning/losing condition which triggers when an alien is inside the power plant X rounds? ... IIRC there is one with the antimatter storage...

[Rodmar]

Do you play on v2.6?

On v2.5, I'd bet on 1 rocket launcher, 2 machine guns, 2-3 flame throwers on reaction fire (at least one per hot spot; no alien survive a reaction fire in early game, save the Ortnok), snipers and the rest with assault rifles on controlled fire more (even a rooky can get up to 2 chances out of 3 to hit something), ... and smoke grenades.
However, without any armour, your troopers are likely to be one-shot if they are caught outside of the smoke cover.

Of course, the transport hangars are on the other side of the entrance, and there's a nice "death" corridor between my men and the entrance. Beware the non upgraded radar tower, as it attracts a few aliens (consider it as compromised if next to the entrance, I mean perhaps one Shevaar would have preceded your men in the stairs). Also the first time your main base (first base) is attacked, it's likely that it's not restructured yet: the workshop makes a nice "back door" to make the final swipe quicker and safer.

[hoiba]

Well... this didn't answer my question .. but anyways: yes I'm using 2.6-dev 

[anonymissimus]

They try to blow up the power plant yes.
You must have encountered what I was looking for here http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/topic,8875.msg64717.html#msg64717 The code is too complex to grasp for me it seems.
How many turns did the aliens stay in your power plant ? Did they reach the green smoke within the power plant ? Did they stay there for one or several turns ? What was it that lost you the battle ?
I got a few messages about aliens entering their target zone and also about phalanx entering aliens' target zone (I suppose that stops the timer ?). But aliens never reached the green smoke. Make sure you rush to the power plant entrance and block it with a large fire field and keep a few assault troopers ready near the entrances to the power plant to finish aliens that made it in.

[hoiba]

hey anonymissimus!

Good to know what let me fail all the time. Thanks for the enlightenment!

I think the aliens were inside the power plant for at least 2 turns when it blew up (I didn't have any of my units inside at the time). I don't know if they reached the green smoke - but I will have an eye on this the next time I've some time to play.

The aliens really tend to rush the power plant. The main entrance is right next to it and every time an alien enters it turns right to the power plant.

Unfortunately I need a minimum of 3-4 rounds before I can enter the power plant with my soldiers.... the aliens have much better spawn points, are much better shooters and have much better armor.

One alien always spawns right inside the main entrance and delays my advance to the power plant. 1-3 other aliens spawn right next to the power plants entrance. Half of my units are on the other side of the base.. and with the low time units of the green guys it takes much time to get them in place.

Usually I don't like to reload savegames .. but this one is so damn tough .. it really is fun and thrill to retry it. I think I will keep the savegame for some lazy and rainy sundays

But at least it's only fishing for a good spawn of aliens to be able to win it.

[ShipIt]

It takes them two turns to break the wall and three turns to blow up the powerplant and win. Aliens will try the same in the Antimatter Storage, if they manage to get there.

[anonymissimus]

If we take e.g. the initial base layout as an example, you should be able to reach the inside of the power plant with at least one cannon fodder (+12.5 TUs) before the aliens do, to place a fire field. It should grant you additional turns. Sure, you should build command center and/or living quarters near to the power plant.

It takes them two turns to break the wall and three turns to blow up the powerplant and win. Aliens will try the same in the Antimatter Storage, if they manage to get there.

And what are the conditions for the timer running ? Do they only need to be near or inside ?
IIRC both times I managed to put the field fast enough, none of the aliens made it into the power plant, and the third time there were 4 inside in one turn; I threw grenades since they were so close together, killing 2, flashbanging and wounding the other 2, and a fire field preventing further ones. My next turn both flashbanged ones were dead. So no problem here.

EDIT
Using the mission test map in skirmish one can check it out. Human player has the initial and the second turn until the wall blows up. Assuming aliens enter right after the wall blows up, the player has 2 turns for killing the units inside. So one of my encounters above was close actually.

[hoiba]

It takes them two turns to break the wall and three turns to blow up the powerplant and win. Aliens will try the same in the Antimatter Storage, if they manage to get there.

Well... the living quarters are on the other side of the base.. so my rookies need ~5-6 turns to reach the power plant. The guys at the command center are very near to it but they are being delayed by the alien(s) entering the main entrance.

poor base layout

I'll take some screenshots tomorrow I think.


Can the timer be stopped? e.g. when all aliens inside the power plant are killed and a human enters it?

[ShipIt]

Can the timer be stopped? e.g. when all aliens inside the power plant are killed and a human enters it?

The misc_mission inside the power plant uses a radius of 6 cells around the marker (green smoke). If it is occupied by both teams at the end of the round, it is considered to be contested and does not count for the aliens.

[Rodmar]

Well, this case don't happen in v2.5, obviously.
But out of curiosity, in v2.6, when you write

It takes them two turns to break the wall

do you mean that the alien somehow dig their way to the power plant, or that they need to use the  usual path to get there (like the PHALANX troops)?
In the latter case, then, only the first base layout should be a problem.

[anonymissimus]

They move to the power plant normally.
Well, with an unlucky enough base layout and not enough fast runners it can be a problem to reach the power plant in time I guess. A usual base layout should have the command center (with most spawn points) and at least one living quarters (near to the command center to concentrate unit spawning - lone soldiers are bad) very near to the power plant.

[hoiba]

The misc_mission inside the power plant uses a radius of 6 cells around the marker (green smoke). If it is occupied by both teams at the end of the round, it is considered to be contested and does not count for the aliens.

Well.. you said, the aliens need 3 turns to blow it up. Lets say, they get 2 turns before being defeated .. but manage to come back some turns later. Does the timer start over again at 0 and they have to stay 3 turns again .. or is it stuck at the 2 turns and now they only have to stay the additional single turn? ... (questions over questions ^^)

by the way.. I've attached the promised screenshot of the poor base layout. As you see - power plant and entrance are up left with the command center following. the living quarters are mid right which makes it  long way for the rookies with low TU
At the bottom once were 2 workshops which I destroyed to limit the options for entering the base to a minimum when it was clear the base would be attacked by the bomber.

[anonymissimus]

Your spawn positions are too scattered without the winning condition even.
With several rookies with TU boost you should be able to place a fire field on your 2. turn though, running from the living quarters at the bottom. Aliens at the entrance block the way from the command center to the power plant; if you rush a rookie behind the ramp on turn 1 you should either kill or disable the units on the ramp on the first turn or place a fire field to block their way to the rushed rookie. With that position of the command center relative to the entrance, it's most of the time possible to kill one or more aliens on the ramp on turn 1 by moving a little out of the command center and then back after firing. That can cause the aliens at the entrance to attack your units form the command center and/or the ones trying to get into the power plant, but then they don't try to get into the power plant and you get a chance to kill them after they killed your rookies. You also likely need smoke to get the rushing rookie past reaction fire, unless you kill or disable all of those aliens that can see you previously.
You could improve the base layout by exchanging the living quarters in the east and the western interceptor hangar.

[hoiba]

My plan is to destroy the base defenses as they are pretty useless and can't even harm a collector ufo. then I'll bring the living quarters close to the entrances. I only have to figure out where to put the two workshops I destroyed before to still keep a good defensible base.

Killing the alien on the ramp and still rushing towards the powerplant will be difficult. There are no experienced soldiers on the base.. only 12 rookies with limited equipment and poor accuracy. I usually have to shoot with 3 guys at the one alien on the ramp before it hits the ground. But I'll try it

[anonymissimus]

There are no experienced soldiers on the base.. only 12 rookies with limited equipment and poor accuracy. I usually have to shoot with 3 guys at the one alien on the ramp before it hits the ground. But I'll try it

Why would you need experienced soldiers ? Distances are low and rookies can use high tech weapons just as well. For instance, the laser rifle is a particularly good weapon for assault rookies, thanks to its low weight and high precision. With one assault rookie you should be able to shoot maybe even 2 12 TU shots onto an alien on the ramp and move back behind cover. If the TUs don't suffice for doing that then only the 12+8 TU shot or so. 2x12TU shot should almost kill a sheevar or armored Taman on very hard. With 3 such soldiers you should get ~2 kills.