Shotgun in 2.6 dev

[Pharaufein]

Hello everyone

I just started a new campaign using the 2.6 dev version and equipped two soldiers with the shotgun, considering to later use them together with the new EP shotgun ammo.

However, I soon felt that the Shotgun is clearly overshadowed by the Assault Rifle in almost every regard, the main problem being that it is simply too inaccurate.
To be even able to shoot, one has to come within range 20. This is understandable, since we are talking about a close weapon.
But to be able to actually hit something, one has to come even closer, triggering reaction fire, losing cover and wasting TU.
The assault rifle can kill much more safely and reliably using the full auto mode.

The practical use for the shotgun I can think of is using its fast and powerful reaction fire to hide behind corners, where it is impossible to miss even with crappy accuracy.
However, it seems to be unsuitable for any "active" role.
 
Oddly enough, I found the grenade launcher to be a much better "close" weapon to fulfil that part, providing good reliability and good damage at short range.
It also does not become obsolete.

I think the topic was discussed before, but not with the newer versions.
What are your thoughts about this?

[anonymissimus]

You're not playing on very hard, do you ?
Even if there is no bug preventing RF, even if the alien doesn't manage to circumvent the RF condition, even if you're lucky enough to hit, even if it's only an unarmored Taman, it's still not doing enough damage to kill it so you die.
Most of the time, if there is any kind of obstacle in the line of fire or the range is too high (but not too high for the weapon used), RF is just "aborting fire" for unknown and invalid reason. And RF is the shotgun's only usage, so I just safe the research time for the plasma blaster (which would be the shotgun's upgrade) and do not use the "close" skill at all.

[damiac]

My experience with the shotgun is based on 2.5, but I found it useful for more than just reaction fire.  Yes, at the extreme of its range it's not terribly accurate, but it is quite damaging.  Much more so than the assault rifle.

Remember also, the shotgun slugs aren't super accurate at range, but they are still highly damaging. 

The grenade launcher is really good, no question about that.

Where the shotgun especially shines is in houses, alien ships, and other confined areas.  Out in the open, like you said, the grenade launcher is better.  But it's almost impossible to shoot the grenade launcher inside a house or alien ship due to the ceilings blocking the shot's arc.

And, the shotgun is absolutely fantastic for RF in situations where you're covering a door, or any situation where the alien has to get right in your face.  Nothing can sneak in under its 8 tu shot, even a plasma pistol needs 2 tu to move into sight, then 6 tu to fire, so you'll typically kill them before they get a chance to fire.

[hwoarangmy]

For my part, I just don't use close combat skill at all. The situations where the shotgun would be useful are too rare to justify using it IMHO. Because of it's poor accuracy, soldiers have to come very close triggering a fatal reaction fire. Moreover, close combat soldiers are usually pretty exposed and do not live long enough to reach high levels.
In my typical firebird team, I use 3 cannon fodders, 2 assault, 2 snipers and 1 grenade launcher. I don't use armor to have the extra TU. I try to equip all cannon fodders with 1 plasma blade to one shot hiden aliens.
Because of reaction fire, I usually use smoke to cover before firing.

Note that I play in hard/very hard and never try again missions (even when I loose good soldiers).

[anonymissimus]

I try to equip all cannon fodders with 1 plasma blade to one shot hiden aliens.

I thought about doing that, but the kill given to the unit is wasted, the unit is likely killed after it used the plasma blade, and plasma blades can be picked up by aliens as well it seems. I once lost 2 high level units within the same turn thanks to that.
In 2.6 armor is not only for training strength because of suffocation, which you need the nanocomp armor for to prevent it.

[Pharaufein]

My experience with the shotgun is based on 2.5, but I found it useful for more than just reaction fire.  Yes, at the extreme of its range it's not terribly accurate, but it is quite damaging.  Much more so than the assault rifle.

Remember also, the shotgun slugs aren't super accurate at range, but they are still highly damaging. 

The grenade launcher is really good, no question about that.

Where the shotgun especially shines is in houses, alien ships, and other confined areas.  Out in the open, like you said, the grenade launcher is better.  But it's almost impossible to shoot the grenade launcher inside a house or alien ship due to the ceilings blocking the shot's arc.

And, the shotgun is absolutely fantastic for RF in situations where you're covering a door, or any situation where the alien has to get right in your face.  Nothing can sneak in under its 8 tu shot, even a plasma pistol needs 2 tu to move into sight, then 6 tu to fire, so you'll typically kill them before they get a chance to fire.

While I agree that the 8TU RF is good, it still does not justify to use shotgun guys in a team imo.
To have a guaranteed kill, 2+ soldiers have to be dedicated as more than one hit is required to kill even an unarmored target (on hard and very hard).
If they are not standing right next to the door, due to the poor accuracy chances are high that at least one will miss, giving the alien the chance to burst them down.

In all other situations, the assault rifle and the grenade launcher perform sooo much better because they are much more versatile and reliable
It seems a waste to use fewer assault/grenade soldiers that can be used in many situations in favor of close weapon soldiers that can only be used to camp in front of openings in teams of two soldiers or more.

[hwoarangmy]

I thought about doing that, but the kill given to the unit is wasted

Yes but I usually use that in very dangerous situations (like corruptor wings) where I wouldn't expose my good units unless I have to.

In 2.6 armor is not only for training strength because of suffocation, which you need the nanocomp armor for to prevent it.

Extra TU are so precious, IMHO, that I prefer to not equip armor at all. Usually, I try to use only strong soldiers (39 if possible). When they reach 42, I can equip them with nanocomposite armor + assault/sniper weapons.
When I select soldiers, the first thing I look at is strength. If it is high enough, I look at assault/sniper/explosive skills. BTW, I think that the extra TU give too much importance to strenght while other caracteristics are irrelevant IMO.

[anonymissimus]

Having a sniper with strength near 60 or so is cool though. Can carry everything from medkit over power armor to anti matter em rifle without being burdened. You don't reach that stage without using max (e.g. with strength 39 you carry 19.5) carrying capacity always.
There is also this severe bug in 2.6 affecting the matter: http://ufoai.org/bugs/ufoalieninvasion/issues/5555
(That means, the strength gain by carrying more will be higher compared to carrying less (TU boost), with the bug fixed.)

[Pharaufein]

I played around with the weapons_human.ufo file to try if a more accurate shotgun feels useful.
Therefore, I drastically reduced the spread of the saboted slug ammunition from 3.0 to 1.5.

With this change, the shotgun feels quite decent in missions.
My two soldiers carrying shotguns seem to be a valuable addition without outperforming the assault guys.

I have to see if things go back to mediocre when aliens start to wear light armor and my assault guys receive an upgrade to lasers while the shotgun does not see an improvement till plasma ammo.

[hwoarangmy]

Having a sniper with strength near 60 or so is cool though. Can carry everything from medkit over power armor to anti matter em rifle without being burdened. You don't reach that stage without using max (e.g. with strength 39 you carry 19.5) carrying capacity always.

I never reached such a high strength, even with my best soldiers ^^