Assault and CRC weapons choices

[Mungojerrie]

Hello everyone!
I'd like to discuss which weapons you guys choose for your assault and close combat guys, especially mid- and late game.

At the start it's quite simple for assaulters - assault rifles and an occasional machine gun, which are all replaced by plasma rifles and then laser rifles for their greater accuracy.

But appearance of medium alien armor and especially armored Ortnoks changes the game vastly, since it's a real pain in the ass to kill those dudes with laser rifles.

So we need a bigger punch. But with what?

- Particle Beam Rifles pack a hell of a punch but are relatively slow and inaccurate, and you also need to scrounge ammunition, which is not always plentiful. They also don't have full auto.
- Particle Beam Cannons have all cons of a rifle, but are also heavy and rare.
- Needlers are great but heavy and ammo is scarce, and ammunition production is relatively demanding(20 alien materials is a lot for one clip) and long.
- Encased Plasma ammunition for assault rifles and maybe machine guns. Now those are interesting - decent accuracy and range, high damage potential but ammo needs to be produced, albeit it's not too difficult.
- Or maybe stick to Laser Rifles because they are light, extremely accurate, DF cartridges can be bought off the market and they really only have troubles with medium alien armor which there is not a lot of?

And now to close combat guys. So far weapon progression for me was SMG -> Plasma Pistol -> Laser Pistol -> Plasma Blaster.
I didn't find much true close combat encounters with my playstyle, so shotguns and blades did not find real any real field application.

How do you do with CRC soldiers? What are your tactics and preferred weapons in early, mid and late game?

[Noordung]

yes dont go close combat or aliens will kill half of your soliders. laser rifles and heavy lasers. also plasma rifles and particle beams. becouse you cant buy enough ammo for laser on market.
i never used pistols tried plasma pistol but was so incaurate that i had it only in one mission. dont know if laser pistol is any better, havent researched yet. neither needlers. and im already in late geme.
particle rifle is good demage low TU-s so no reaction fire.

[MonkeyHead]

Well, flamers are always effective, as are plasma blasters and grenades (especially alien gas, less so plasma, but I do have a soft spo for setting things on fire), and rocket launchers and grenade launchers - the only downside is the lack of range. That should not be a problem though, if you have coil-guns pewpewing away from range. Laser rifles are semi-useful against heavy alien armour, as are both needlers. Encased plasma is a fab middle ground between lasers and particle beams IMHO. In a pinch particle pistols and shotguns are ok as they probably wont attract reaction fire, but inaccuracy hurts.

Anyway... my game progression, leaving out the odd special role solider like a flamer or rocket launcher -

Early - human tech, gradually supplanted by plasma weapons.
Early Mid - Laser based.
Late Mid - Laser weapons gradually supplanted by particle weaponry and needlers.
Late - Full switch over to EP rounds where possible.

[Mungojerrie]

becouse you cant buy enough ammo for laser on market.

I'm currently playing 2.5 and have 110 D-F cartridges at every base in stock. Never produced them, bought them all off, just like coilguns and coilgun ammunition, nanocomposite and power armours.

Well, flamers are always effective, as are plasma blasters and grenades (especially alien gas, less so plasma, but I do have a soft spo for setting things on fire), and rocket launchers and grenade launchers - the only downside is the lack of range. That should not be a problem though, if you have coil-guns pewpewing away from range. Laser rifles are semi-useful against heavy alien armour, as are both needlers. Encased plasma is a fab middle ground between lasers and particle beams IMHO. In a pinch particle pistols and shotguns are ok as they probably wont attract reaction fire, but inaccuracy hurts.

Anyway... my game progression, leaving out the odd special role solider like a flamer or rocket launcher -

Early - human tech, gradually supplanted by plasma weapons.
Early Mid - Laser based.
Late Mid - Laser weapons gradually supplanted by particle weaponry and needlers.
Late - Full switch over to EP rounds where possible.

Flamers have great damage, but then again I've never really had much real close combat, save for a couple of lucky oneshots with plasma blades.

Also, why do you switch to EP in late game? Do you find them better than lasers and particle beams? They all have their pros and cons. EP seems, however, the most balanced solution with high damage potential, decent accuracy and range, and the only drawback being the necessity of ammunition production.

Also, do you prefer assault rifles or machine guns?

[MonkeyHead]

The full switch to EP is based on a few factors:

One, I can produce ammo to meet my needs instead of scavenging it, and the ammo production is far more material efficient than needlers.

Two, The assault rifle has a full auto fire which can fell 2 or 3 grouped armoured Ortnoks at once, unlike the 3-round burst of the PB rifle.

Three, the HMG is fearsome at all ranges with EP if a troop is strong enough to carry it - it is way more fatal then the needler, and way more likely to hit then the PB blaster. Lighter too.

Throw in the huge damage advantage over lasers for a minor hit to accuracy (my long range combat is taken care of by coil-guns or AM round bolters - heck, even EP sniper rifles will down most things in a single shot), and you have my mainstay armament, supported by a few grenade specialists, pistol armed scouts and CQ flamers/blasters. That, and there is something in me that just likes using human weapons to fight off the alien horde rather than turning their own guns back at them.

[Mungojerrie]

MonkeyHead, I'm totally with you on that. Do you think however that sticking to laser is also a viable option, or are laser weapons excruciatingly underpowered for late game?

But i still feel that needlers are superior to EP machine guns due to greater accuracy and speed. Damage potential-wise, however, EP MG outperforms everything.

[MonkeyHead]

The laser rifle is useful even into late game for me simply down to its low weight - even the weakest troops can carry it with a few other items and nano composite armour. The laser pistol is also a useful side-arm for troops not likely to use it - those that do will get a PB pistol. The heavy laser though is not worth it late game - if a soldier is strong enough to carry it, then they could carry an EP HMG or a needler. As I make heavy use of coil-guns and antimatter bolters for late game long range carnage, the accuracy of the needler is kind of redundant compared to the sheer Ortnok ripping power of the EP HMG - they are my go to weapon for taking them down from anything from mid to close range, ahead of any explosives other than maybe the hybrid rocket. Needlers are annoyingly underpowered against an Ortnok in heavier armour.

[Mungojerrie]

Heavy Laser is also really a slow Laser Rifle in means of DMG/TU. It also has less ammo and accuracy, so it's a waste IMO.

I've switched to EP Assault Rifles and they DO rock - even armored Ortnoks do not stand a chance, so I don't feel MGs are necessary for battling them.

Also, are AM Bolters superior to Coilguns? The latter oneshot or at least critically wound and cause berserk almost everyone, is there a reason to employ Bolters if I just don't feel like it?

[Unisol]

How do you do with CRC soldiers? What are your tactics and preferred weapons in early, mid and late game?

Two words: Plasma Blades. Extremely powerful one-hand weapon for extremely short range. One blade can take out pretty much every alien, save for late-game heavily armored ones.

[Mungojerrie]

Two words: Plasma Blades. Extremely powerful one-hand weapon for extremely short range. One blade can take out pretty much every alien, save for late-game heavily armored ones.

Yep, Plasma Blades annihilate everyone for just 6 TUs, but the problem is you have to get close and by doing this you often attract reaction fire, so this tactic is viable, but not in all cases. Question is - what do forum members equip CRC guys with to deal with non-point blank encounters. It seems that every CRC weapon sucks in its own way, so there's quite a bit of choice going on.

[MonkeyHead]

Mid to late game I train my CQ rookies up with a laser pistol (or on occasion the particle pistol if they are particularly high skill and accuracy already but low strength) in one hand (lots of low TU hits for lots of skill gain) and plasma blade in the other. Once they get strong enough troops with good accuracy get Plasma blasters (often used as forward scouts quite defensively - an 8 TU reaction fire for the ball mode will knock out advancing enemies quite easily), and troops with poor aim get a flame-thrower and are used as more aggressive forward scouts.

[Wolls]

Heavy Laser is also really a slow Laser Rifle in means of DMG/TU. It also has less ammo and accuracy, so it's a waste IMO.

   I would say that the difference here is really not that big, with a slight favouring of the Laser Rifle over the Heavy Laser.  Obviously against Medium Alien Armour, the balance shifts wholeheartedly against the Laser Rifle.  The Heavy Laser is slower but does more damage and thus is really comparable to the Laser Rifle right up until you effectively have half the ammo..
   Is twice the damage against medium armour worth half the ammo capacity?  Unless every enemy is wearing their med-armour duds, that extra turn you gotta spend reloading is just ugg, but as a transition from the MG the heavy laser is an viable option for those units.  Although the increased stat growth makes this much less of an issue.. re: light assault v. heavy assault.

I've switched to EP Assault Rifles and they DO rock - even armored Ortnoks do not stand a chance, so I don't feel MGs are necessary for battling them.

   pewpew? Its a range thing / playstyle where you have the throughwall coil guns and MGs softening up and or finishing all the enemies from respective distance.  So that by the time you are really engaged in 'close' combat the enemy is at considerably reduced HP.  pewpew?
   The thing with the EP ammo is that it manages to use the original weapon ammo capacity specs.  Usually with increased damage comes less ammo but here that particular tech effect is not observed, with an effective doubling of d/TU at the same ammo caps.  Unheard of really.  It seems completely unbalanced with respect to how everything thing else is weighted.

Also, are AM Bolters superior to Coilguns? The latter oneshot or at least critically wound and cause berserk almost everyone, is there a reason to employ Bolters if I just don't feel like it?

   Well if your definiiton of a sniper weapon is one shot=one kill than the AM Bolter is your weapon.  Otherwise in no way are the AM Bolters superior to Coilguns.
   You don't need to pay attention as much to obstacles with the coil gun, allowing if you want; to always stay behind cover while firing.  This huge advantage over the Sniper Rifle ( even with EP ammo), and w/o the limiting ammo capacity of the Bolter; should signify the Coil Gun as the goto ranged weapon.
   Damage wise the EP Sniper, Bolter and Coil gun are comparable to each other.  Its the further throughwall capacity of the Coil gun v. the sniper rifle that truly sets it apart.

[MonkeyHead]

Both the standard bolter round and Antimatter bolter round are also throughwall capable. The AM bolter round is a one hit, one kill weapon, even to Ortnoks in heavier armour. The coilgun may not always take one of them down despite causing panic/bezerk and severe wounds.

[Unisol]

Question is - what do forum members equip CRC guys with to deal with non-point blank encounters?

I prefer to split roles in squad and equip my CRC guys with teammates to do long-range fighting for them. Instead of wasting TU trying to snipe someone with pistol it's more viable to try and close range in my opinion.

[Mungojerrie]

I thank ye all kind gentlemen for your very valid points. I've learned quite a bit from this thread.