General > Discussion
2.5 sucks completely
H-Hour:
--- Quote from: Patupi on April 08, 2013, 10:27:03 pm ---I'm not sure what calculation it uses to compare what TU's your weapon mode uses and what TUs the enemy has left at any given moment, but I'm aware it multiplies it's checks based on how many shots the weapon mode uses.
--- End quote ---
The RF match-up is a straight TU-to-TU comparison. If a RF firemode costs X TU, the unit will RF against a target after they spend X+1 TU in visible range of the unit. This is why low TU firemodes are better for RF -- the target gets to spend less TUs before receiving reaction fire.
The idea that multi-shot firemodes (burst/auto) are "better" in RF is false, IMHO. The number of shots only effects how RF understands its chance to hit. If a unit has a low chance to hit, it may decline to RF. More shots means more chance to hit, and therefore less chance it will decline to RF, but in my experience this is only relevant if you regularly rely on RF over long distances.
Throughout much of the game, aliens are using primarily 8 TU firemodes, so effective defensive RF requires (IMHO) 8 TU firemodes as well (the alien spends 10 TU moving into view and firing). A couple extra shots in a burst firemode is not worth the extra 4 TU, as aliens can then enter view, fire and step back out of view before receiving fire. The 12 TU firemodes are only effective over medium-long ranges, when you're confident your soldier can take fire (unlikely to be hit) and you want to increase the chances your RF will hit its target.
--- Quote from: Patupi on April 08, 2013, 10:27:03 pm ---One other thing. I've heard that certain skills of the soldier improves Reaction Fire.
--- End quote ---
No, there is no stat which effects RF.
--- Quote from: Patupi on April 08, 2013, 10:27:03 pm ---Another quick query. The game used to use the weapon skill 'Heavy weapon' on certain weaponry
--- End quote ---
It will be removed before 2.5 ships. It's now useless.
Patupi:
--- Quote from: H-Hour on April 09, 2013, 09:08:30 am ---The RF match-up is a straight TU-to-TU comparison. If a RF firemode costs X TU, the unit will RF against a target after they spend X+1 TU in visible range of the unit. This is why low TU firemodes are better for RF -- the target gets to spend less TUs before receiving reaction fire.
--- End quote ---
Hmm, which is problematic. Often the enemy isn't in line of fire very long, favoring running round corners right up to you and firing repeatedly. To be able to actually damage him it needs to be both high damage AND short TU operation, which is rare. Wave damage on lasers (pistol especially) would likely fire then, but not be enough damage to actually stop anyone. Though with multiple guys all there to hit... maybe. I'll try using a combination of shotguns and laser pistols next time.
On a related subject, since long ago on a different game I gave up trying to use smoke grenades effectively and somehow never tried it in this one... I was in error! I just tried using them and definitely like them. Helps a lot in using mobile cover. Still aliens seem to plow into the smoke and open up at point blank range, but usually they don't seem to have much TU left to do much, for whatever reason. Odd since even without smoke they tend to walk straight up to you before firing *shrugs*
Out of interest H-Hour, do you happen to know if the computer DOES allow the aliens to know your precise position continually or is there some 'sense' of where humans are if not in view? Does it just remember last position and what seems to be their attacks are just coincidence? It seems a little much. I've had aliens wait and wait, but just as I move in range (despite being out of sight) they wizz round the corner and blast me.
H-Hour:
--- Quote from: Patupi on April 09, 2013, 10:28:02 am ---Hmm, which is problematic. Often the enemy isn't in line of fire very long, favoring running round corners right up to you and firing repeatedly. To be able to actually damage him it needs to be both high damage AND short TU operation, which is rare. Wave damage on lasers (pistol especially) would likely fire then, but not be enough damage to actually stop anyone. Though with multiple guys all there to hit... maybe. I'll try using a combination of shotguns and laser pistols next time.
--- End quote ---
Definitely use multiple soldiers for effective RF. It's easy to miss and, as you said, most 8 TU firemodes are not enough to kill outright (shotgun is the star weapon for close-quarters defense). On corners, don't put soldiers should-to-shoulder, because the aliens are good at finding lines of fire to pick off a soldier on the edge without exposing themselves to the other soldiers. Instead position a standing soldier one grid behind a crouched soldier, who is in turn one grid back from the edge of the corner, so the alien must walk fully into view before firing on them.
On a related subject, since long ago on a different game I gave up trying to use smoke grenades effectively and somehow never tried it in this one... I was in error! I just tried using them and definitely like them. Helps a lot in using mobile cover. Still aliens seem to plow into the smoke and open up at point blank range, but usually they don't seem to have much TU left to do much, for whatever reason. Odd since even without smoke they tend to walk straight up to you before firing *shrugs*
--- Quote from: Patupi on April 09, 2013, 10:28:02 am ---Out of interest H-Hour, do you happen to know if the computer DOES allow the aliens to know your precise position continually...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: H-Hour on April 08, 2013, 11:47:01 am ---The AI always knows where you are. This is common in many games as it's very difficult to create a challenging AI if they don't know where to look. AI improvements are always welcome, but it's a bit of a specialised field and hard to attract talent.
--- End quote ---
Patupi:
Well, I tried multiple soldiers on low TU weapons, even going so far as to try pistols (haven't made enough laser pistols to use yet) but it was pretty hopeless. A couple of times the enemy does come up and get shot at, but mostly they come out of cover and pot shot someone (often kill shot as I still haven't got the money for advanced armor yet!), often two shots before anyone can return fire. With pistols, when they worked, I got six direct hits on a Sheevar and didn't really affect him. Hopefully laser pistols will be better for that, though the stated damage of 25 on the snapshot is not promising! I've had laser pulse strikes from the laser rifle hit multiple times before taking one down, so a shot with that much less damage is likely to barely scratch him!
On the AI front I sort of assumed it would be a combination of random, group exploration, combined with mission parameters (hunt civilians/soldiers if seen) and that they'd have an expanding locus of attention based on last known position. A 'watch and wait' mode once enemy position is known, but is not in sight right now, is reasonable (which I've seen) but as I said they seem to move on the attack whenever you get close, way before they should know you are in range! Right now I don't see a way for any ambush set up by the player to work at all reliably... if ever! The only way to win seems to be to advance rapidly from cover to cover, or to advance retreat, attempting to catch the enemy when they leave cover... problematic at best, and heavily dependent on the map.
Patupi:
OK, still not going well on reaction fire, even with laser pistols, but using smoke grenades, hiding most of my people (with laser rifles or stun tasers) and then having a couple of laser pistol guys run out of cover and spot for those in cover works great. Still getting awkward bits at entrances to buildings, but other than that it seems to be a good tactic... with the aliens I've met so far at least. Nothing beyond Taaman, Sheevar, Bloodspiders and the hovernet
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version