Development > Artwork

hovernet temporary model 01?

<< < (4/6) > >>

Winter:
Quoting from my post on the propulsion thread:


--- Quote ---Our current plan is to use atomic or antimatter rockets for the UFOs, as they're very powerful and allow for spectacular effects for UFO destruction in mid-air. This allows us to send more UFOs at the player in every wave, as some or most of them will be destroyed instead of having to recover them all in the field.

Nuclear or antimatter engines are not suitable for infantry vehicles, and though high-powered ion thrusters might be, they require a LOT of power to keep something floating against gravity. The easiest and most power-effective way to keep something flying is via the Hovercraft concept, using high-powered air turbines and directed air for thrust. The hovercraft's usual rubber skirt isn't necessary with intelligent AI control, but still, air turbines have a minimum space for the thrust they can put out. They simply cannot fit in your new hovernet design.
--- End quote ---


Any kind of thruster that allows hovering would require FAR more fuel and power than a simple air turbine. The aliens aren't stupid, so they would go for the more economical option.



--- Quote ---Another crit on the new hovernet design is the gun mount. It's got an extremely weak mounting, where one good blow might cause the gun to simply break off. That's not a mistake I could accept from aliens who are supposed to be smarter than us.
--- End quote ---


This is another problem I have with the new model, and I don't think I need to explain it further.

The storyline BTAxis and I are writing features technology, not magic. That means antigravity and similar concepts are not an option. The only thing we're using that's not entirely supported by physics is wormhole-based FTL, and nothing else. I don't know why I have to keep repeating this. It's not like it's more difficult to model things that could actually work in the real world.

I will not under any circumstances accept this model without changes.

Regards,
Winter

sirg:
Kaeau is doing such a great work. That second model is something I have never seen in any game. It's quite original and futuristic.
I think some developers are sacrificing a lot of good stuff in order to fit a storyline that will always be secondary or of lesser importance in an action/strategy game (no offense). If you want a storyline to count, make an adventure game or an RPG.

There is no such things as "realistic" SF, because if you really know to describe the mechanics of an anti-matter engine or whatever, you could make the blueprints and contract it to make a prototype. Even with good knowledge of popular science none can really say, that's good physics or impossible to build. People with PhDs said a century ago that Theory of Relativity was crap.

Think about how different were the invading Spanish compared to the Incas... I don't think an Incan could have said to an other that a cannon looks unrealistic or that it defies the laws of physics. They knew almost nothing about physics.. and so any Earth like civilization compared to a space faring/invading sophisticated multispecies race of aliens.

Besides... one last issue - you want turbines - or so I understand - as a way of propulsion... but consider the fact the aliens are a spacefaring species, and they might invade a wide range of planets with different climates and atmosphere. In the first place, a turbine will never work in vacuum (space) and will function differently in other atmospheric conditions, on other planets. So, air turbines don't sound realistic to me :)

Elbenfreund:
first: winter, i realy apreciate your role in this discussion to advocate the "realism" part of the game and i think its a good think to have this plurality of opinions.

nevertheless one has to consider what a game is about. for me its about having a good time playing enjoy the story and being courious what comes next. realism in this paradigm isnt for its own sake but a _tool_ so people feel familiar with this fictional world and think it _might be_ possible. and such a tool is design. it should make people feel like there is something new, exciting and worth to explore. it should look good as well as point out differences between humans and aliens.  if i am the only one who considers story and design for tools to create a good game, nevermind me. :)
Actualy whenever i played a game with anti-grav or whatever: i never was like "ops.... this antigrav is so unrealistic, it spoils all of my fun..." as lonk as the story is told in a good way, and the grafix look good i believe almost everything." and realy, i think allmost every player is like that. its a "skill" called phantasy. or to stick to literature: I never heard someone complaining about Isaac Asimov because it was unrealistic. he is a great example how to implement fictional content in still trustworthy world.

second: still winter is right, the new design hardly fit the old ones, but the conclueson would be to reconsider the design concept. which would be basicly depending on ka and his will to redesign the "old" ships.

here to help, eric.

btw: winter, beeing a student of theorie of science i have strong doubts ob your aproach towards science in general and your concept of "realism" in special its not clear at all *imho*

LordHavoc:
The first model is aerodynamically unstable because it lacks pitch control (how much it tilts forward/back).

The second model is both extremely aerodynamically unstable (unbalanced weight, bad surface profile leading to internal vortices and worls in the air flow which cause it to flip over uncontrollably...) and bears no signs of having a propulsion system at all, hence would fall to the ground.  Don't give me excuses about antigravity thrusters on this thing.

There are reasons that aircraft look the way they do, flying requires continually cycling the air around the aircraft to avoid falling, it is the act of pushing on the air that keeps aircraft off the ground, and air being a liquid means that air must continually flow across the aircraft in this process.

The most plausible and efficient flight system in a planetary atmosphere is electric motors spinning fans, using an atomic power source (nuclear reactor or otherwise) to store the most energy possible.

Obviously such flight systems are not capable of going outside the atmosphere, but conquering a planet does not require doing so, only specialized dropships would be used for such a purpose.

Furthermore the hovernet is a hovercraft, it is designed to hover very low to the ground, so low that a 'ground-effect' skirt is optimal to reduce the amount of air that must be moved.

The skirt on a hovercraft causes air to compress against the ground, increasing its density and making it more effective at keeping the craft off the ground, the less air escapes the less effort is required to keep it slightly off the ground, this still avoids the friction problems of driving across the ground and consequently it does not matter what material the ground is made out of, as long as it can take the weight, it is a very novel self-balancing system and consequently the only efficient way to hover.

Alien technology still must obey the laws of physics, and although we are still debating the exact nature of physics (einstein's general relativity vs quantum mechanics) we do know a lot about the physics of this reality.

In a story such as this it is better to err on the side of believable reality than fantastical techno-magic that may or may not (mostly not) be possible.

LordHavoc:
I should also add that the entire 'technological basis' of the game has already been laid out in the story which was finished quite some time ago, so this is really too late to argue over whether magical flight technology can be introduced to the story.

The story as it stands dictates that in-atmosphere flying craft use technologies such as electric turbine propulsion and some kind of high-energy power source, this craft does not use any kind of magical flight technology because that is not part of the story.

UFO:AI is the most realistic game of its kind, the others are all quite fantastical, let's finish this game according to the plan that was already laid out, which is for a mostly-realistic work of fiction that should be immensely enjoyable regardless of technology choices.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page