Destructable Terrain?

[Reenen]

Good luck on your GF, all of the best.

I don't think blastable terrain is really supported in even the Q3 engine; so I think if we want to implement this, we'll have to think carefully and hard before just jumping in.  

Lets say maybe when the game has gone "final", and it'd be like UFO:AI 2.

[Reenen]

I don't know who does the maps... but doesn't matter how it gets implemented - the maps will have to be created with enough care and consideration for destructable "squares".

What I mean is... if you create a long wall it should not be created like this:

[**************************]

but rather like this
[**][**][**][**][**][**][**][**]


So that when you hit the wall you don't have to "delete" the whole
[**************************]

but just "delete" the specific
[**]

that was hit.


Problem is that I am not too familiar with the engine's workings, and C / C++ is not my main language.

I should probably download the code and have a look... But no matter how, you'll have to make "destructable" walls into an entity, and creating maps will be tricky.

[Mattn]

that doesn't depend on the map creator - but the compile tools.

to split everything into such small pieces is not very good, you would increase the polycount a lot - thus you would need a very good computer to handle maps with r_speeds higher than our current ones

[Reenen]

Yes, I know it sucks... but it's the only solution that's viable in my mind with q2 engine restrictions.

[pete.lindsey@hotmail.com]

Hey guys I am very new to this scene <2 days... but I am a super freakish fan of the X-com series.  Destructible terrain's role should really be reconsidered-  It can add SOOOO much to the tactics of a map, I do understand that the implications of earlier decisions make it nearly impossible to solve but I really believe that it is one of the key elements missing...

if anyone could suggest the proper reading I might be able to come up with a decent solution... (where to find quake 2 engine documentation)

[papabob]

I don't care much about destructable things atm, but as this thread gets longer I have some ideas too

Lets asume that the only destructable items will be human walls. It isn't a big concern, as if you shoot a rock, it hardly becomes destroyed (actual RPG and rocketlaunchers doesn't really breaks big natural rocks anyway). This allows the coders to only have to pay atention at walls (straight lines between point A and point B), forgeting rocks, trees and terrain that would be very difficult to code.

Now we put the "hardness" of the wall in the texture applied: it would be easier to asing an integer to the texture file (jpg or whatever, most of the formats used allow comments) than replace each map.

When the wall have to be destroyed (damage higher than "hardness" in the impact point), the wall splits in two, from A to impact point to B, and the height of that square can be lowered to the height of the floor in that level (eyecandy as rounding the borders can be applied later). Each destruction only adds few polygons as the human walls are basically boxes and rectangles.

To bring the processor time to compute the new map, we can add some easy visual effects (shake the camera, add some animation of smoke...).

Just my thoughts, and I really think that a consistent storyline is more important at this moment  

[Noone]

Distructable Terrain would be very nice because it gives you the chance to use more complex tactics, moreover it was part of all three important Xcom parts (ufo defence, terror from the deep, apocalypse) . But this is indee a feature that will cost some Time to implement so it should come if the rest works.

[Nevyn]

Means you can blow away the building the alien sniper is hiding in rather than having to line a shot up and shoot him, which is well..... smart!

[Nikron]

and that will happen with the civs too, right?

[Reenen]

If destructable terrain is implemeted we need to remember that damages must be paid to the people whose stuff got damaged.

I remember in UFO enemy unknown... I'd flatten the whole city...  You can't just go about destroying trump towers without any concern for your actions.

It must at the very least have influence on how the countries feel about you, and your "performance".

[papabob]

In a terror attack, the main concern of the goverment is to get no casualties of civilians. Any country can afford the repairs of the buildings that can be damaged by our troops (the maps are pretty smalls, at best we can only "destroy" 3 or 4 houses). There is always budget for these situations, just think in floods, fires, small gas explosions, etc.

Anyway, destroying buildings is not the "standard way" of playing missions. Make things destructables allows the player to use some different strategies in certain situations, but the old "search & destroy" will be the norm.

[Spitfire]

Could you change each piece of the terrain into an actual npc (like monsters or civilians) with hit points?  

With that method you could give each their own hp (more for walls, less for wooden fence) and resistances (immune against bullets, cement walls strong against fire, etc.).

The problems I see with doing this are:

1. The time to transfer the models over into npcs and to replace them in the game.

2. Having the terrain "faction" be completely ignored as far as turns go (as in the humans go first, aliens second, civilians third, and do not let the game take into account the terrain group)

3. Line of sight blocking.  Making it so that if a monster stood behind an npc fence, the fence still blocked him from line of sight.

4. The poly count everyone refers to.  I'm not sure how this would actually affect the game performance.

Any who, I'm just thinking out loud and thought I would throw that idea up in the air.  Can't hurt to dream a little.

[Silencer]

Heh I dunno why I didn't consider this before. Quake II has damage mods for the models, in theory it wouldn't be too hard to use these for walls and treat the now "empty" section as not being there for game mechanics. Frankly it might be a pain in the butt, but it is an option that should be acheivable without turning UFO: AI into a more serious resource hound.

I personally used blasting through walls in the original XCOM games in a way I've been taught to IRL, forcing an entry to minimize casualties, coming through a wall behind your target while he's watching the door saves catching bullets.

[Reenen]

Huh?  I dunno what you are saying, but cool.  If you have a plan, then AWESOME!!!

[Northen_Wolf]

so we will get NPC doors and walls? nice !