why i can't fight alien with fists?

[ubequitz]

If anyone is feeling industrious, please feel free to create animation sequences of some simple hand-to-hand combat moves :twisted:. A short sequence of punches or kicks etc would probably be enough. I'm not a modeller (I've tried blender a few times and got confused ) but I think this would have to be done for all soldier and alien models.

There is some info about modelling here:
http://ufo.myexp.de/wiki/index.php/Modelling

You can access all the model data in the development version of the game from: http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk/base/models/

Perhaps someone more into the modelling scene could elaborate on this. Also anyone wanting to help out, please feel free to drop by on the ufo:ai IRC channel (server freenode, channel #ufo:ai) where you will be able to get some advice from others helping out with the game (although it can be quiet at times there, so some patience is required).

[kahlcke]

if i can find the time i´ll work on it.

[hotdog]

I think that you should make hand to hand combat. Also note that not all aliens might be savages you dip ***** the story said that the only real difference is the govt. style and I doubt you can eat someone while other ppl are around thats like saying you can sit on a man to death while there are other ppl around...they will most likely stop it because human surrvival states that when given opportunity to strike with no reprecussions that a human will take it regardless of whatever the hell is standing there and as for movie man he can't be more farther from the truth because in most cases people who have guts and brains do not run and scream they think, learn, adapt, and fight back, time is not an issue if there is a weapon nearby most likely he would have hit the alien if he were there it's not macho it's what a normal person would in fact do.

Either way saying that everyone runs and screams is like saying knights ran and screamed whenever someone bigger showed up on the battlefield...nothing is farther from the truth than that. I am rather shocked to see a human that doesn't know about what he is or what he is capable of...

[pete.lindsey@hotmail.com]

I am all for supporting the addition of game elements that create a more enriched experience... so does hand to hand combat in some way add to tactical combat?  Knee jerk reaction is no, it doesn't gain you anything that a combat knife or Kerblade doesn't give you.  After trying to think of a way to make it add something to the game, the best I could come up with way submission type grappling, lets say an alien steps through a door and you where ready?  So you grab is arm, turn him around, put him in a choke hold (using him as a shield) advance with your pistol at the ready.

But then you have to ask does the immense amount of changes that have to occur to make something like that work justify the limited value?

Sure I think it sounds kind of neat, but I would rather see the ability to lay flat, destructible terrain, better reactive fire, more weapons and equiptment and smarter learning AIs before I would want someone to spend thier time on hand to hand combat

[hotdog]

I am all for supporting the addition of game elements that create a more enriched experience... so does hand to hand combat in some way add to tactical combat?  Knee jerk reaction is no, it doesn't gain you anything that a combat knife or Kerblade doesn't give you.  After trying to think of a way to make it add something to the game, the best I could come up with way submission type grappling, lets say an alien steps through a door and you where ready?  So you grab is arm, turn him around, put him in a choke hold (using him as a shield) advance with your pistol at the ready.

But then you have to ask does the immense amount of changes that have to occur to make something like that work justify the limited value?

Sure I think it sounds kind of neat, but I would rather see the ability to lay flat, destructible terrain, better reactive fire, more weapons and equiptment and smarter learning AIs before I would want someone to spend thier time on hand to hand combat

This is true I don't think you should put alot of time into making something that can't really be used as often as other things like rifles or rockets and you have to be a dumbass to not take a melee or secondary weapon with you if you do have a rocket launcher. But the point of this thread was meant to say that it sucks balls when you are point blank to an alien with no ammo left or you have heavy weapons that will kill you if you do use them at point blank but that is not something they should correct, it is something that should stay in the game because it is your fault for not being prepared.

After all who wants to play a game where everytime it gets frustrating a programmer will just make a fix and make the game easy again? That like saying. "I have run out of ammo on my level thats gay you guys should make ammo crates sit around maps". The only reason I want hand to hand is because knives are kinda stupid, who the **** uses a six inch blade rather than a Katana or Longsword in a fight? if you are gonna do knives you might as well put fists in as well.

[Irinami]

Short version at the bottom.  :lol:

... it sucks balls when you are point blank to an alien with no ammo left or you have heavy weapons that will kill you if you do use them at point blank...

We got some simple, relatively effective training in using our rifles as less-lethal close-quarters battle weapons in basic training. Butt-stroke (upward), barrel-thrust (that barrel isn't going to bend, folks), downward strike, and a quarterstaff-like hold on the weapon that lets you whap the foe with the butt or the barrel end while still guarding your body. And we're not Marines, either.

So what am I saying? All-out melee combat might not be necessary, but the ability for any weapon to be used in close combat for an amount of stun damage (like the stun rod, perhaps a bit less damage than a knife, but stun damage category?) would cover all the bases: It gives a last-ditch attack, is accurate to military training, requires less animation than all-out kung-fu stuff (just a simple thrusting the weapon out in front of the character would work), and a weapon is a hard metal/blunt instrument instead of a "mere" human body. (After all, one of the big memes of this game is technological artifacts wielded by people, not technological techniques wielded by people.)

The only reason I want hand to hand is because knives are kinda stupid, who the **** uses a six inch blade rather than a Katana or Longsword in a fight?

Um, just about everyone. You're not going to find very many soldiers trained militarily in the employment of those kind of weapons. Those who are trained in them, you will not find carrying those weapons on the battlefield (with extremely rare exceptions, the only one I can think of immediately are IJA/IJN officers and pilots in WWII). And again, melee combat is not a core meme to this game. It just doesn't really fit; the melee weapons included seem to be obligatory--you would have knives, and aliens need something scary and nasty to do those cow autopsies with.

Short Version: Melee combat isn't really an important meme to this game, but a melee strike with ranged weapons in close combat for minimal (combat-knife level or so) stun damage would appear, at first SWAG, to be a relatively reasonable compromise.