project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Redo of Soldier Body model  (Read 68777 times)

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2009, 09:24:17 pm »
- We don't really have complete source files in the data_source folder for loading the original meshes for those soldier models, before they were exported to MD2 format.

that is not true ;)

we have the source, we have the bip and figure files for 3dsmax - and it would be easy for someone familiar with 3dsmax to add new animations and apply them to the max source files to reexport them into the md2 format. the problem is that we don't have someone who is familiar with 3dsmax

switching to blender is the best step here, as it is free source, too. so we are trying to get our hands on a mesh + animation in blender.

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2009, 12:20:29 am »
that is not true ;)

we have the source, we have the bip and figure files for 3dsmax - and it would be easy for someone familiar with 3dsmax to add new animations and apply them to the max source files to reexport them into the md2 format. the problem is that we don't have someone who is familiar with 3dsmax

switching to blender is the best step here, as it is free source, too. so we are trying to get our hands on a mesh + animation in blender.


Whoops!  I remembered incorrectly, thanks for clearing that up!

@Winter:  If you happen to be reading this thread (and I'm hoping you are), how does the body model's shape look?  If the shape is OK, then we can move onward to getting a good skin texture for the model.  I asked Migel for help with the skin, since myself I have a lot of trouble with making good skins, and Migel seems much more capable in this area than I am - But before the skin is really worked on, the shape needs to be finished.  Again, this specific shape is for a soldier with no armor at all, the armored versions are coming up soon.

Offline Winter

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 829
    • View Profile
    • Street of Eyes: The Writing of Ryan A. Span
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2009, 03:24:50 am »
I've been reading the thread, mate, and I have no complaints about the model. It's fine as far as I can see. We'll still need a female version though!

Regards,
Winter

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2009, 04:41:02 am »
I've been reading the thread, mate, and I have no complaints about the model. It's fine as far as I can see. We'll still need a female version though!

Regards,
Winter

OK, I'll export and send this model to Migel as soon as I have a chance sometime tomorrow, and while he's working on texture skins for it I'll start working on building a female mesh as soon as I can.

Offline Migel

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2009, 01:47:54 pm »
By the way, Destructavator - if you making a new animation you have to make a tags or you can just waste your time. And it is time to think what it will be - separate helmet or IR goggles will need a new tags...

Offline vedrit

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2009, 06:27:14 am »
I could start on the animations while Migel is texturing.

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2009, 08:45:14 am »
helmet and irgoggles needs a separate head - no tags please. we've discussed this earlier already, the goggles wouldn't fit every head out there. it would look bad. the same is true for the helmets imo. it would also be a waste of vertices to render all those hidden head details.

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2009, 08:46:05 am »
oh - and i think there was a tag exporter script for blender in our repository - not sure whether it works though.

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2009, 07:07:32 am »
I think I was misunderstood about the "seperate helmet" idea, Mattn is right except that what I was suggesting is a different concept - Allow me to clarify:

As helmets get more advanced and protective, they cover more of the head and especially more of the face, until the point where the whole head and face is covered.  When they get to this point, the soldier heads all look the same with that type of armor because the helmet covers everything and from the outside it isn't possible to recognize the soldiers or distinguish between them.

The aircraft pilots are already an example of this, with their helmets.

The Fix, which would also work for the pilots as well:

In the pre-mission equipping screens only the character, meaning a soldier, pilot, whatever, would not be wearing the helmet and hold it in one of their hands, so the player can see the entire un-covered head and face and easily still identify a somewhat unique look for that character.  This means the pilots could also have randomly selected unique faces just like soldiers.

During missions on the battlescape, there would only be *one* mesh which is exactly the same as how it works right now for the older models, the helmet and head model combined as one head model.  If the player zooms in or re-equips inventory in the middle of a combat mission, they would see this one, single head model - which again is exactly the way it already works for the old head models.  It would appear to the player that between the time they equipped the soldier before the mission and when the mission began the character apparently had put on the helmet, but the game program just replaces the un-armored head with the version wearing the helmet, just like how it already works now, one single model.

I never meant to suggest that there would be two models for the head during missions, one covering up most of the other, because yes, that would be a waste of graphics resources for the game, as well as being a sloppy design with the models even if it appeared to work.

This means that for the fix I'm suggesting the "helmet-only" model that the soldier holds in their hands before missions in the equip screen would not be used at all during missions.

As for making the soldier hold the helmet, its only a matter of attaching the un-worn helmet to the off-hand with a TAG, which the body that has the hand already should have anyways (for holding items in the off-hand).

Edit:  Attached is a quick-and-dirty depiction of how this fix would work for a pilot, just in the pre-mission equip screen only.  During a mission, if a pilot was in a ground battle for a special mission or something, that head in this screen shot would not be rendered or there at all, and the helmet model would not be in the hand but instead on the body's neck.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 07:17:21 am by Destructavator »

Offline vedrit

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2009, 07:47:34 pm »
I like the idea.
I never really understood why I cant use the pilot in a mission. Pilots always have atleast a pistol, incase they get shot down, so I could atleast use the pilot for a supporting role, such as a medic.

Offline Migel

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2009, 06:23:38 pm »
Just to show - I add fabric-like texture and draw simple belt... Actually I ask Destructavator to upload model without PHALANX signs, so maybe I'll start over this work. I also have an idea to discuss - I want to add some dummy weapon to the model, like gun in the holster on the leg or knife on the belt.

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2009, 07:00:19 pm »
I want to add some dummy weapon to the model, like gun in the holster on the leg or knife on the belt.

that could confuse the player imo.

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2009, 07:32:38 pm »
I'm afraid I have to agree with Mattn about a dummy weapon - if one was in the model I think we would eventually get people coming to the forum and IRC channel over and over with questions such as "I ran out of ammo, why can't I use the (whatever) that it looks like my soldier has..." or "How do I equip the (whatever) that it looks like all the soldiers carry?" and so on...

I personally like the texture - Winter of course makes the final decisions, but as someone who worked for and has seen real S.W.A.T. people in a past job I can say that I like the fact that the material in these screenshots isn't as bright or high-contrast as the more lousy texture I had come up with.  After all, part of the idea behind camo and such is to *not* stand out with something overly flashy, but to intentionally blend in more and not be as noticeable.  As a small point, on my screen the belt looks a little bit greenish (Edit: The screen shot looks more brownish on another one of my computers, different display), by comparison a SWAT guy would use a dull black, but then again these characters - correct me if I'm wrong - are supposed to be more "military," as opposed to "law enforcement," aren't they?  Of course, the setting is also 80-some years in the future, so I have no idea what type of material would be used by then.

Thanks for mentioning a belt buckle, I forgot to put it in the model myself!

Yes, I can re-build the UV map for the texture, without the logo patches being seperate - I'll get to work and upload it as soon as possible.

I have a feeling that when this is finally done, it'll look really good, I think it has potential.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 07:34:56 pm by Destructavator »

Offline Winter

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 829
    • View Profile
    • Street of Eyes: The Writing of Ryan A. Span
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2009, 10:46:45 pm »
The texture is okay, but the PHALANX patch stands out in a bad way. It needs more work to make it look like it belongs on the uniform rather than just being a badly copy-pasted slab. Also, I think you should keep the patch in the original gold colour.

Regards,
Winter

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Redo of Soldier Body model
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2009, 12:26:48 am »
The texture is okay, but the PHALANX patch stands out in a bad way. It needs more work to make it look like it belongs on the uniform rather than just being a badly copy-pasted slab. Also, I think you should keep the patch in the original gold colour.

Regards,
Winter

Actually Migel and I did discuss the patch in the texture - If I understand correctly, I believe Migel intends to re-do the patch anyways after I fix a technical issue with the UV-map texture seams, and once he's done I think it would look better.  (Sorry I forgot to mention that, my fault.)

Regarding the color, do you think they should all be gold, or just the ranking officers with all the "grunts" having silver or a different color, kind of like how it is with police and other non-civilians in real life?