Newbie coders forum

[criusmac]

Split from the "Proposal for 2.4 TODOs (Unofficial For Now) "-thread by Duke.


I'd prefer something C or C++ oriented. It's been about 5 years since I last used either language, and so I really need to get back into it. I have about 10 years of C and C++ programming experience (excluding the last 5 years, and any breaks I took in between), but I seem to have forgotten a lot of it for making my own programs from scratch. So, anyway, chances are good I can work on difficult to read code without a problem, I'd just rather not code gigantic multi-file changes that can affect a lot of things should they go terribly wrong.

Medikits looks very easy for me to code whenever the proposal gets written.
Visibility is a bit too complex for me for now. I've been unable to make the new files from scratch since I can't remember how to do it.

So, basically, for now, I'd like to simply change existing code until I get better at it.

[odie]

I'd prefer something C or C++ oriented. It's been about 5 years since I last used either language, and so I really need to get back into it. I have about 10 years of C and C++ programming experience (excluding the last 5 years, and any breaks I took in between), but I seem to have forgotten a lot of it for making my own programs from scratch. So, anyway, chances are good I can work on difficult to read code without a problem, I'd just rather not code gigantic multi-file changes that can affect a lot of things should they go terribly wrong.

Medikits looks very easy for me to code whenever the proposal gets written.
Visibility is a bit too complex for me for now. I've been unable to make the new files from scratch since I can't remember how to do it.

So, basically, for now, I'd like to simply change existing code until I get better at it.

Hmmmm..... so was the dev team in consensus of this already?
If so, then i will add to the list of proposed stuff for 2.4. Toodles!

[Gunner]

easy coding stuff would be scripting the campaign - we have people for scripting the menus, but not a dedicated person for scripting techs, weapons and missions. it would be nice if someone would take over this part.

if you can give me a description of what this entails then i might be able to lend a hand.

[Duke]

@criusmac:
I happend to run into your offer to help the project. IMHO it's a shame that none of team immediately accepted it Bare with us.

I'm in a similar situation as you. My skills may be not as rusted (but then again, it's like riding a bicycle , but I'm currently working on a very prominent part of the code WITHOUT having really understood how this whole thing works.

My plan is to ask Mattn to hold a 'class' for newbie coders or at least document the architekture of UFO:AI so newbie coders can find their way.

Would you like to join me in that class ?

[criusmac]

I think my main problem has been getting use to Code::Blocks. I have been slowly making progress with it, but what I didn't know before made rather thick walls that stopped me.

For example:
1) I did not realize the find in files by default affects projects, and this means only 1 small bit of UFO:AI. I ran numerous searches for where Hit Points gets decreased, and could never find anything that affected it save Hospitals, which increased it. Finally, after a few weeks (today actually), I discovered the Find in Files needs to be 'Workspace', not 'Project', and this allowed me to actually find the code I needed.

2) It took me a very long time to figure out how 'Run to Cursor' could be made to work. I still don't know why exactly, but it seems I have to build the game in 'Windows Debug' mode, since 'Windows' build just won't let it work.

It seems none of my problems really deal with Ufo: AI itself. I am able to easily understand the code, if I can find it. I'm not sure of the naming convention for the variables yet, but hopefully I won't be too far off.

I would say currently my main problem is I'm not sure of why certain things are done (Like the medikits post I'm currently working on). I feel there's a bug there, but it's obvious enough, that it might be meant to be that way...

Is this a bug, or is it meant to be?

As long as I can get these simple problems fixed, I think I'll be fine. I just need to be able to talk to the developers now and again to get certain things answered. To know how the entire program works isn't really needed to change it - you just need to change the small parts you're working on, right? The files appear to be objects, and so I am currently approaching this from an object oriented point of view... I'll just need time to see how poorly this fails. It's too early for a class for me, unless it's how Code::Blocks works specifically... That's where I'm having the problems so far..

Oddly, I don't even know who the team is right now.

[Duke]

I am able to easily understand the code, if I can find it.

That is the core problem imho. Plus you need to know the context of the found code, ie. where it is called and WHEN.

When I said 'class', I didn't mean a four-week compendium "Everything you ever wanted to know about UFO:AI".
I was thinking about a mailinglist or a 'newbie coders forum' where people like us can exchange their puny knowledge If we have a group of say 5 newbies, some 80-90% of the questions can probably be answered from within the group, that is, *without* consuming the precious time of the experienced devs.
For example, I can easily explain to you what the 'Windows debug' build is good for and how it works.

Answering each and every (sometimes stupid) newbie question can be rather tiring/annoying for the experienced devs. But if they only have to answer those remaining 10-20%, I'm positive they'll gladly do
Got the idea ?

[criusmac]

Ah, a forum, yes, that would be nice. I'm all for that.

[odie]

That is the core problem imho. Plus you need to know the context of the found code, ie. where it is called and WHEN.

When I said 'class', I didn't mean a four-week compendium "Everything you ever wanted to know about UFO:AI".
I was thinking about a mailinglist or a 'newbie coders forum' where people like us can exchange their puny knowledge If we have a group of say 5 newbies, some 80-90% of the questions can probably be answered from within the group, that is, *without* consuming the precious time of the experienced devs.
For example, I can easily explain to you what the 'Windows debug' build is good for and how it works.

Answering each and every (sometimes stupid) newbie question can be rather tiring/annoying for the experienced devs. But if they only have to answer those remaining 10-20%, I'm positive they'll gladly do
Got the idea ?

Yes Duke,

I am all for this idea! It sounds damn good!

Afterall, quite a nos of us here does have enuf experience already to help those queries.

Maybe we should start a thread for newbs.
Afterall, i was a newb too once. Lol.

Maybe we can get geever to sticky a new thread on this?
And the devs may want to seriously ignore tat for now. lol. If really its an issue, we repost or re-stick it into the actual 'norm thread'.

Then again, what does the more experienced coders say?

Hmmmm.

[Mattn]

everything that helps to get more coders has green light from my side

but isn't it what we have the coding forum for? if you have questions, ask them there, if you have answers, write a tutorial or howto or add faq for newbies in a sticky thread. or didn't i get the point?

[odie]

everything that helps to get more coders has green light from my side

but isn't it what we have the coding forum for? if you have questions, ask them there, if you have answers, write a tutorial or howto or add faq for newbies in a sticky thread. or didn't i get the point?

Okie! I guess this will go into the recruitment drive

More coders added in the TODO!

[Duke]

or didn't i get the point?

Maybe. Let's see

I was under the impression that the coding forum is for devs that have a problem of some kind. So every other dev that has the knowledge is supposed to answer the question ASAP to solve the problem.

Opposed to that, in the 'newbie coders forum', things are much more relaxed. Every other newbie is supposed to try to figure out the answer. He may not find it, but he will learn 3-5 other things in the process
So the devs may or may not read the intermediate results of the newbies, answer questions if they are 'in the mood' to do so or if they find the newbies are searching in the wrong direction.
Sometimes the devs even might not answer the question, but instead give just *hints* so the newbies can find out themselves.
Only if the 'speaker of the newbies' (rules/mechanism is still to be defined) declares that NO newbie could find the answer, a dev is required (and polled) to give the solution.

It's possible to mix these two concepts in the coding forum, but why should we ? The only problem I see is: the more forums we have, the better we must describe what should go where. But I think the forum software gives us a chance to do that

[Mattn]

ah ok - will try to create the forum.

[Zenerka]

Opposed to that, in the 'newbie coders forum', things are much more relaxed. Every other newbie is supposed to try to figure out the answer. He may not find it, but he will learn 3-5 other things in the process
So the devs may or may not read the intermediate results of the newbies, answer questions if they are 'in the mood' to do so or if they find the newbies are searching in the wrong direction.

I like that idea, Duke. Lets see how it'll works.