Plasma powered flamethrower?

[BTAxis]

As promised, a new mod board has appeared to accomodate your modding needs.

[Surrealistik]

A plasmathrower as a specialized alien close combat weapon would be pretty sweet, and plausible; short ranged, but getting blasted with it basically guarantees death. Would be great as an anti-UGV weapon, turning even those mini-tanks into useless piles of slag with relative ease.

[Valis]

Hmm, like Fire Dragons from W40k universe with their Plasma torches

[Captain Bipto]

The plasma blade is a one shot version of this really and they are small enough to carry lots.

[Surrealistik]

The plasma blade is a one shot version of this really and they are small enough to carry lots.

Sure, but that's the thing; it's one shot despite the size. Its range is also significantly more limited, and certain loadouts simply do not have the space for too many PBs (things like flashbangs and GL secondaries are preferable beyond the first PB), though I am careful to always have enough for at least one. Further, like the Flamethrower, I'm sure it would have a 'Sweep' firemode that will allow it to kill multiple soldiers in a single attack. In balance it definitely has a viable role as a sort of anti-everything upgrade (alien-side, not an actual adaptation of human tech) to the Flamethrower. I would certainly use it on cramped maps with lots of cover and CQC.

[Captain Bipto]

IMHO I think it would be more realistic to have an upgraded flamer with better chemicals. I see that as a more viable option because the wiki (which may be out of date?) does not list the flamer as a weapon slated for obsolescence and therefore no replacement. The flamer fulfills everything you would want it to do already. Perhaps it just needs an ammo upgrade later in the game.

To the devs: For the few human weapons that will remain useful throughout the game, does that mean there may be MkII upgrades for them? Or more ammo types?

http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Equipment/Primary_Weapons

[Surrealistik]

IMHO I think it would be more realistic to have an upgraded flamer with better chemicals. I see that as a more viable option because the wiki (which may be out of date?) does not list the flamer as a weapon slated for obsolescence and therefore no replacement. The flamer fulfills everything you would want it to do already. Perhaps it just needs an ammo upgrade later in the game.

Incendiary agents as effective and lethal as a stream of plasma versus heavily armoured targets? Good luck. Besides, it's a relatively simple matter to channel plasma for a relatively short distance with electromagnetism as contrasted to developing and incorporating plastics capable of safely encapsulating plasma for the distances specified in the UFOpedia. In fact we already have this (EM plasma channeling) technology albeit on a comparatively crude level. It is by no means a stretch to imagine the aliens could and would have weaponized plasma channeling tech to produce such a weapon. Further, the Machine Gun is not listed as an obsoletable weapon, though it ultimately is given the new needler series of weapons being rolled out, and the Plasma Blaster. The wiki list is by no means complete or comprehensive. In addition, I sincerely doubt the flamethrower's efficacy versus robots and heavily armoured units; enemies a plasma thrower would have absolutely no problem with, so it has a genuine tactical niche. Lastly the weapon also gives the aliens something they're desperately lacking; an answer to the flamethrower, and a specialized CQC gun.

[Captain Bipto]

Ah but such is the way of the wiki, i am not even sure the flamer is not obsoletable. The machine gun is listed as possibly being replaced by the plasma blaster though the range is better on the MG the damage is less competitive.

Also heat shielded armor would be just as effective against plasma as it would incendiary chemicals. Plasma's damage comes from it's temperature period. BTW keep in mind in a rational universe the weapons you use most tend to also be the ones you can defend against the best.

Perhaps this means that flamers will go the way of the dodo later in the game.

The way I see it we are arguing over whether or not the flamer's ammo should change. Ask the devs.

As far as a specialized CQC weapon goes, the aliens have hand to hand characters, kerr blades, plasma and particle(?) pistols. At least in the 2.3 dev those alien buggers get a heck of a lot of reaction fire shots with those plasma pistols.

[SharkD]

Also heat shielded armor would be just as effective against plasma as it would incendiary chemicals. Plasma's damage comes from it's temperature period. BTW keep in mind in a rational universe the weapons you use most tend to also be the ones you can defend against the best.

Doesn't plasma also have an extremely high velocity? If the mass is sufficient, then it should be able to punch a hole through armor.

[Hertzila]

Doesn't plasma also have an extremely high velocity? If the mass is sufficient, then it should be able to punch a hole through armor.

Most likely a cloud of plasma hitting a hard object would simply deflect and disperse unless it's flying at impossibly high velocity. And even then a solid object would do it much better.

[Surrealistik]

Ah but such is the way of the wiki, i am not even sure the flamer is not obsoletable. The machine gun is listed as possibly being replaced by the plasma blaster though the range is better on the MG the damage is less competitive.

Also heat shielded armor would be just as effective against plasma as it would incendiary chemicals. Plasma's damage comes from it's temperature period. BTW keep in mind in a rational universe the weapons you use most tend to also be the ones you can defend against the best.

Perhaps this means that flamers will go the way of the dodo later in the game.

The way I see it we are arguing over whether or not the flamer's ammo should change. Ask the devs.

As far as a specialized CQC weapon goes, the aliens have hand to hand characters, kerr blades, plasma and particle(?) pistols. At least in the 2.3 dev those alien buggers get a heck of a lot of reaction fire shots with those plasma pistols.

Kerrblades, plasma and particle pistols are not specialized CQC guns; certainly not on the level that a plasma thrower is. Further, a Kerrblade is really a glorified autopsy tool meant for organ harvesting rather than a true melee weapon.

Second, the difference between the temperatures of plasma (tens of thousands of degrees celsius), and those generated by a mere flamethrower (hundreds of degrees celsius, around 500, assuming a superior incendiary agent burning at thermite temperatures, 2400) is very significant. It is easy to imagine an armour that protects against the latter, but not the former.

[Captain Bipto]

Operating at those temperatures would be pretty dangerous to the user as well.

[Surrealistik]

That's the beauty of plasma weaponry; the heat can be calibrated to an optimal value (with an obvious minimum).

[Captain Bipto]

Yeah okay with you 10s of thousands of degress (btw the surface of the sun is 5000 degrees Kelvin).

How would you aim it? Also plasma would burn too quickly, flamethrower chems are designed to burn slowly enough so there is still something to hit the guy with. You are not just hitting the guy with flames you know, there is a good amount of burning chemical goo that sticks to the target.

[Surrealistik]

Yeah okay with you 10s of thousands of degress (btw the surface of the sun is 5000 degrees Kelvin).

How would you aim it? Also plasma would burn too quickly, flamethrower chems are designed to burn slowly enough so there is still something to hit the guy with. You are not just hitting the guy with flames you know, there is a good amount of burning chemical goo that sticks to the target.

Plasma temperatures are simply an output of controllable heat induction (typically via lasers relative to our technology, not sure what the aliens use), thus they can be calibrated to a desired level. At its highest charged states, it indeed features temperatures at tens of thousands of degrees centigrade, while 'cold' plasmas are thousands of degrees centigrade.

Second, I would assume the plasma is cohered for a short distance via a temporary electromagnetic field (it also occurs to me that 'marking' a target in an emulation of lightning phenomena, or an electrolaser/aerial conduction methodology could also work), the whole process of its projection, plasma generation and discharge being activated by a trigger. Aim the discharge port at your target, hold down the trigger, and you're done. Further, precisely because plasma is so hot, it doesn't require continual burning to annihilate its target. A short burst should be more than enough to destroy almost anything; the initial exposure is incredibly deadly.