Some ideas for an already great game!

[Ridiculan]

Hi all. Thank you very much for bringing back to life a great game!

Here are a few ideas from board gaming that would enrich a turn based game:

In a turn based game, there are ways to "simulate" motion, and get a seamless gameplay using some concepts used in board gaming. I refer to a concept used in a game called ASL (Advanced Squad Leader)

The principle of movement in a turn based game leads to a lot of bisarre situations as one have no control over the character during the opponents turn. One is a opportunity fire system which already is in the game, another is target based modifiers:
When you move a character it could get a "motion" counter, that means the unit is flagged as moving, it will be harder to hit, and it should have penalties shooting. This concept will simulate a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary.
In this game the motion could be at 2 levels.
Slow, when crouching.
Running.
The motion counters should be removed at the start of the owning players turn.

Another idea i want to bring up is borrowing AP from the next turn, building on the AF idea that shooting spent during the opponents turn is subtracted when you start.
If some AP is left, and you want to reload your gun, but only have 10 out of f.ex 15 AP, 10 could be spent this turn, and when the next turn start 5 more could be subtracted at start to finish the reload. This will reduce the "calculator"-gaming that i sometimes do to make sure i dont move too much, or shoot too much and leave any unspent AP to waste.

[BTAxis]

In 2.2.1 the RF system does in fact take TUs from the next turn. This is something we very much want to get away from.

[Sophisanmus]

Hmm, there is some minor virtue in Ridiculan's "borrowing" idea, though not with respect to shooting.  If certain commands, such as reloading or moving an inventory item could be partially completed one turn, and then finished with TUs from the next turn when that next turn starts, players could have a little more freedom in terms of TU expenditure without altering the RF system to any extent.  Of course, this would only be an option when the action taken would completely deplete the actor's current TU (no "I'm going to save 15 TU for RF, but also spend 5 to start reloading and finish with 5 off the top next turn" crap).

[BTAxis]

In my opinion it's the player's responsibility to set up RF with enough ammo. I don't see a point adding a mechanism to reload on the enemy's turn. It's just too complicated.

[Mayhem]

He isn't talking about reloading during reaction fire, BT, he is talking about being able to begin a "long" (high TU) action in one turn and finish it in the next.

You might run into cover and want to start reloading, but only have 10 tu left out of the 15 required.  Those 10 TU are currently wasted.  It does make more sense that said soldier could start reloading as soon as he reaches cover, instead of having to wait doing nothing for some arbitary amount of time.

Similarly with a combat medic who rushes over to his patient and has 15 tu left - and can now do nothing with them, having to stand around twiddling his thumbs until the magical "round" passes and he now has 20. 

Reloading and Healing are, however, the only 2 actions that I can see this making sense for.

[TroubleMaker]

If I'm not wrong, something similar is already implemented for movement?

[BTAxis]

Ah, yeah, I agree with moving long distances over multiple turns.

[Ridiculan]

But shouldnt the action of moving making the target more difficult to hit?
Adding a flag, or counter as we say in board gaming, would make that possible. The value of the modifiers should be subject to debate and balancing.

[Ridiculan]

Hmm, there is some minor virtue in Ridiculan's "borrowing" idea, though not with respect to shooting.  If certain commands, such as reloading or moving an inventory item could be partially completed one turn, and then finished with TUs from the next turn when that next turn starts, players could have a little more freedom in terms of TU expenditure without altering the RF system to any extent.  Of course, this would only be an option when the action taken would completely deplete the actor's current TU (no "I'm going to save 15 TU for RF, but also spend 5 to start reloading and finish with 5 off the top next turn" crap).

Yes this is what i mean.
A soldier is not going to wait until the next turn starts. To make the game more seamless, starting an action such as first aid, or reload, as the last action that turn, and then continue through the next.
Balance is there already: When the new round start he will have less TU than usual.
No TU is magically added using this system. Getting rid of the "calculator-gaming".

If I'm not wrong, something similar is already implemented for movement?

This is great news.

[Sophisanmus]

The kink that would need ironing out with the medikit would be dealing with the player attempting to move the wounded soldier out of range after assigning the medic to heal.  Either the injured would need to be locked down until the next turn, or the healing aborted; I prefer the latter.  Whether or not to refund the medic's TUs is up to you: doing so would be nice for the player, but refusing to would also be an acceptable consequence of the player's lack of forethought.

The other application I can see for fore-spending TU would be inventory functions, such as bringing a weapon, or grenade, to hand for the next turn.  This may well be a necessity, in fact, since reloading generally involves such an inventory change anyways.

[Mayhem]

The kink that would need ironing out with the medikit would be dealing with the player attempting to move the wounded soldier out of range after assigning the medic to heal. 

That's actually a flaw with the exisiting system too.  It takes 20 TUs to treat an injured person but the injured person, in effect, does not need to be there whilst being treated as he can use up all of his TUs reaching the medic, or leaving the medic after being treated.

Realistically, if it takes 20 TUs to apply a bandage then the bandag-ee needs to be there for all of those 20 TUs too.

[Sophisanmus]

Well, I think there is supposedly some nano-justification for the medikit's effectiveness and speed of use; after all, the application of a medikit consumes about as many TU as firing some weapons on automatic.  That said, the time involved in using the kit may well be mostly spent preparing the kit for application, and the actual application involves merely contacting the kit's delivery to the wound(ed area).  Still, I do feel there should be some cost on the recipient's part, even if it is just 5-10 vs. the user's 20. 

[Surrealistik]

Assuming the target of the medikit is conscious, yes, I think the medikit should deduct TUs from him.

Further, the medikit should have a limited charge/number of uses. There are only so many nanobots that can be stored in the thing after all. More serious wounds and healing would require proportionately more charge or uses.

[DanielOR]

having healing take time from the healed is an interesting idea.  I figure, a lightly wounded guy can still do something (patch another buddy or reload the clips) while being treated.  At the same time, a badly wounded guy is just lying there.

So, how about TU penalty is due to wound severity? A % TU penalty same as (or proportional to) the % HP loss?

[shevegen]

Realistically, if it takes 20 TUs to apply a bandage then the bandag-ee needs to be there for all of those 20 TUs too.

Maybe it is a complicated bandage with nanobots inside :-)

Anyway, I think the most simple way to solve this is by deducting x TUs from the healer and x TUs from the one being healed.

I.e. both lose 20 TUs. For the one being treated this could deduct from the next round or he can not be healed if he has
moved in this round (With a message appearing: "You need to hold still in order for the doc to apply his medkit on you!").