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Author Topic: Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack  (Read 6360 times)

HaJo

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« on: July 22, 2006, 10:45:19 am »
I think it is strange that the backpack can hold a rocket-launcher, but
is too small to fit 2 pistols. Also, a pistol-clip is bigger than a grenade. 8)

I suggest to resize the 9mm-pistols to 2x2, and pistol-clips to 1x1.

Offline Bandobras

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2006, 01:31:22 pm »
The pistol is just _huge_. Desert Eagle, or something. Almost the size of an SMG. I suggest, for simplicity, both visual and game-play, keep all holster weapons of the same size (and all other weapons of another fixed size).

HaJo

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2006, 04:27:15 pm »
Quote from: "Bandobras"
The pistol is just _huge_

It is too big (Pistol+Ammo : 3x2 + 1x2) for its tiny firepower.
A Smg needs the same storage space, but is much more useful,
i.e. one secondary blast with  20 TU usually kills an alien.

So, to justify carrying a pistol, it has to offer some advantage,
e.g. using less space. I don't consider money an issue here...

inzenir

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2006, 07:28:51 pm »
i use pistols that way:

2 pistols, each in one hand an my soldier becomes wanabee gangsta :D but u need to be realy close to kil something, but feeling is realy good :D

Offline Bandobras

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2006, 07:59:59 pm »
Quote from: "HaJo"
It is too big (Pistol+Ammo : 3x2 + 1x2) for its tiny firepower.


I can get the clip to 1x1 size...

Quote
A Smg needs the same storage space, but is much more useful,
i.e. one secondary blast with  20 TU usually kills an alien.


... but leaves you in need to reload and with one clip less. Also, akimbo pistols are almost as powerful, as inzenir points out...

Quote
So, to justify carrying a pistol, it has to offer some advantage,


I does --- it is one-handed, so you can carry a grenade, knife, irgoggles, etc. in you other hand. Though with so cheap wielding from holster this is not a big advantage, indeed... Or is it? Ideas for other advantages of one-handed weapons, or just of the pistol are welcome.

Quote
e.g. using less space.


How is it important? If it is, perhaps I can make all pistols 2x2...

Quote
I don't consider money an issue here...


Sure.

Hober

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 03:13:06 pm »
I agree with HoJo that pistols are too cumbersome, it's also a matter of "realism"... in the original UFO the size was 2x1...  
This is as big as a shotgun, a Desert Eagle with a 10-inch barrel would hardly take that much space. I would stick with the 2x2 compromise, which is already an exaggeration of the actual size.

About the "akimbo" option:
Firing with two pistols gains in firepower, but in real-life this requires great skill and is penalising in terms of accuracy. Assuming that all soldiers are right-handed, you can apply a lesser penalisation for the right hand and a higher penalisation for the left...

Offline Bandobras

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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 11:09:15 pm »
OK. If you think so, 2x2 is OK for me. For the 9mm Pistol and Tachyon Pistol. I've already changed the ammunition some time ago.

Can anybody change the base/ufos/weapons_human.ufo and weapons_tachyon.ufo files? Change the size and tweak scale and position so that they look right in the equipment screen. You will find some help in the wiki on the Equipment/tweak weapons page. Then put a patch on sf or post the relevant entries here and I'll commit them. Thanks!

Hober

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2006, 09:42:46 pm »
Well I think this is more or less what you asked (have already checked if the weapons are shown correctly).
Sorry but I don't know how to post a patch on SF (ehm, just arrived you know...)
There was no need to modify "centre" (fortunately, because I haven't understood how it works exactly... ok, I mean, it shifts the picture I suppose, but how much?)
The modified files are those I found in the RC3... I hope there were no major changings in the RC4...

For the pistol, 2x2 and scale 1.3...


// =======================
// PISTOL
// =======================
item pistol
{
   name      "_9mm Pistol"
   model      weapons/pistol/pistol
   weapon      true
   type      pistol
   category   2
   twohanded   false
   shape      "0 0 2 2"
   center      "2 0 1"
   scale      1.3
   ammo      12
   reload      5
   price      300
   buytype      1
}



..and for the tachyon pistol: size 2x2, scale 1.1 to fit the slot.


// =======================
// TACHYON PISTOL
// =======================
item tachyonpistol
{
   name      "_Tachyon Pistol"
   model      weapons/tachyonpistol/tachyonpistol
   weapon      true
   type      pistol
   category   2
   twohanded   false
   shape      "0 0 2 2"
   center      "1.3 0 1.5"
   scale      1.1
   ammo      20
   reload      4
   price      3800
   buytype      1
}

Offline Bandobras

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 01:54:15 am »
Thank you. Already in SVN trunk. I thought the pistols look too small now, so I tweaked your stats a little bit, but they are still 2x2. If anybody has any other ideas, please post here.

BTW, do you like it that reload cost depends on ammo placement in inventory, or would you like the XCom 1 rule that reload cost is constant (for a given weapon, or even for all)?

Rei

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2006, 05:42:06 am »
It only seems logical that the reload time is relative to where the ammo is kept.

Offline Mattn

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2006, 10:18:47 am »
no, no constant reload times.

Offline Bandobras

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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 12:22:55 pm »
Quote from: "Mattn"
no, no constant reload times.


Thanks. At last the issue is solved.

What about making holster a single item container? So that you have the alternative of holding 1 rocket or 1 SMG there, not 3 rockets or 1 SMG (quite an obvious choice for the RPG guy, even if there is no weapon for which a sidarm is as useful as for RPG)... On the other hand I'm loath to force good tactics on players by forbidding them some choices...

Rei

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Size of Equipment: Pistol, Backpack
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2006, 12:11:51 am »
Mattn:

Just from an intuition perspective, having constant load times but varying times for changing weapons is very counterintuitive.

Offline Bandobras

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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2006, 12:52:50 am »
Quote from: "Rei"
Mattn:

Just from an intuition perspective, having constant load times but varying times for changing weapons is very counterintuitive.


I'm a bit lost: Mattn already said that load time will not be constant. And I accepted his decision. Yes, I agree it is illogical, even if XCom1 had that. Is there any misunderstanding?