New soldier stat increase system

[BTAxis]

Note that right now there are only 2 different armours in the game for the player to use. There will be 5 more. In addition, the aliens currently uyse their entire arsenal right off the bat. In the future they will not start using the really powerful guns until a while into the game, so the player can be expected to be better protected by that time.

[TrashMan]

The devs may correct me if i'm wrong, but while this game is supposed to be win-able it's not supposed to be easy.  You are going up against an unknown and superior enemy.  For the proper atmosphere of desperation, you are supposed to take casualties.  That's why there's a way to hire new guys.  Having multiple ways for the soldiers to be taken out of battle-fitness besides being instantly killed on the battlefield IMHO emphasizes the feel of a desperate fight.

Are you telling me I'm SUPPOSED to loose my dear elite soldiers? and what's fun in that please?

I mean,  I guess it partially comes down to how you play.. I currently have 5 bases and soldiers in every one of them (defense teams). I got 2 teams that get sent to some missions - 1 elite team and 1 backup team. I don't tolerate casualties in the elite team, but I do get losses in other teams from time to time. That's how I like it!
If you now try to twist the game so I MUST take heavy loses that it ceases to be fun. Period. No amount of nice twinkly features will fix that.

You can change the hospital/injury system a bit - medikits can heal up to 2/3 of health. If the soldiers health has fallen below 50%, when he's back at base his health 8even if healed with medikit to 2/3) will fall back to 50% and he'll have to recover in the hospital. That ought to put heavily wounded soldiers out of comissions for a bit longer, while not being overly restrictive.

[TrashMan]

I dont agree that it should influence accuracy with heavier weapons. Either you are strong enough to handle a weapon or not.

Yes, but the stronger you are, the easier it is to keep the weapon steady when fireing..less wobble...better control.

[Nevyn]

I have a question.

While this xp gain is based on a soldier not dying, what are the odds my soldiers will not die through an unlucky event, assuming I don't simply reload when I loose a soldier.

If the odds are high that a soldier will die before completing 100 missions, then I would expect either training to be easier, or alternativly, a way to get new soldiers who already have some xp, to reflect the national armies experience against the aliens providing a more skilled baseline of troop than the initial start.

I would expect that xp to be less than a surviving soldiers xp of course, but I would also expect there to have been some xp gained by a soldier.

[odie]

Hi BTAxis,

Been checking the changelog and realised that you have this topic started to explain the XP system.

Did not meant to blog-dig, but it was in the latest changelog update on the main page.

I would like to check with you if this has been updated as per your initial conceiving of this concept? Implemented?

Reason for me asking? I have been studying the advancement process vs ranks and medals and stuff, realised that there is a 0.6 everywhere and wondering if this is arising from this initial concept.

Thanks.

[homunculus]

I have a question.

While this xp gain is based on a soldier not dying, what are the odds my soldiers will not die through an unlucky event, assuming I don't simply reload when I loose a soldier.

If the odds are high that a soldier will die before completing 100 missions, then I would expect either training to be easier, or alternativly, a way to get new soldiers who already have some xp, to reflect the national armies experience against the aliens providing a more skilled baseline of troop than the initial start.

I would expect that xp to be less than a surviving soldiers xp of course, but I would also expect there to have been some xp gained by a soldier.

btw, i feel exactly the same way about it.

the reasoning could be that a fresh phalanx recruit who has some military background should be able to pick up the basics of shooting at aliens in just a few missions, like 2 or 3 missions, and after that the progress would not be significant.

that's why i would also suggest that soldiers could make quick progress an just a few missions, enough to become more or less almost as useful as 100 missions veterans.

i feel it is too much rpg (*wink* @odie) if you cannot afford any casualties.

[Battlescared]

One possibility to offsetting the loss of a quality player would be to make new recruits start with higher stats as the game progresses, maybe an average of your best 10 guys or something.  Even tie it to the difficulty level, with easier modes using few people while harder modes would use more people to keep values lower.  Example:

Hard  - averages 50 best players.  The recruit pool is watered down by lower stat base-watchers.
Medium - averages 20 best players.  New recruits would be based mostly on your best two teams.
Easy - averages 10 best players.  New recruits would be based mostly on your best team.

Or something to that effect.  This mainly kicks in in end game and offsets the penalty you encounter when you lose a high quality player and sets it up to bring a new recruit up to speed faster.  Having terrible soldiers to recruit from only tends to encourage save/reload.  I've always felt this was appropriate in a game like this because those soldiers in the recruit pool represent the troops, which will also get better as the war progresses and everyone learns how to battle the enemy, not just the few elite teams going into direct conflict.  The ground troops will also learn more about them as our knowledge filters down to them.  At least by my theory.

I also don't mean exactly the same as the team members you've lost; there should be some penalty for losing a member and that adds to the challenge.  Some percentage would be required of the average.  Doesn't have to be complicated, just balanced enough so that the new recruits are not as good as your best.

And sorry if this sidetracks the thread.  Just an idea that's indirectly related to the stat system in general.

[Another Guy]

One possibility to offsetting the loss of a quality player would be to make new recruits start with higher stats as the game progresses, maybe an average of your best 10 guys or something.  Even tie it to the difficulty level, with easier modes using few people while harder modes would use more people to keep values lower.  Example:

Hard  - averages 50 best players.  The recruit pool is watered down by lower stat base-watchers.
Medium - averages 20 best players.  New recruits would be based mostly on your best two teams.
Easy - averages 10 best players.  New recruits would be based mostly on your best team.

Or something to that effect.  This mainly kicks in in end game and offsets the penalty you encounter when you lose a high quality player and sets it up to bring a new recruit up to speed faster.  Having terrible soldiers to recruit from only tends to encourage save/reload.  I've always felt this was appropriate in a game like this because those soldiers in the recruit pool represent the troops, which will also get better as the war progresses and everyone learns how to battle the enemy, not just the few elite teams going into direct conflict.  The ground troops will also learn more about them as our knowledge filters down to them.  At least by my theory.

I also don't mean exactly the same as the team members you've lost; there should be some penalty for losing a member and that adds to the challenge.  Some percentage would be required of the average.  Doesn't have to be complicated, just balanced enough so that the new recruits are not as good as your best.

And sorry if this sidetracks the thread.  Just an idea that's indirectly related to the stat system in general.

Very nice Idea!!! I totally agree with that.

Obs: I prefer Bettlescared idea, but this would lead to a complete reformulation of the actual new soldier stats generation. Alternatively we could add a fixed (Min=x, Max=y constant) experience to every stats multiplied by the game month to new soldiers (eg. 10th month of the game, new soldiers would get the month experience constant multiplied by 10).
This would require some testing to ensure recruits would never be generated better than a veteran soldier, but enough so that veteran soldier deaths don't have a huge impact on the game (causing to simply load game).

Again not as guaranteed and balanced as the average of ur top solders minus a constant percentage. Just less coding work.

[odie]

Excuse me folks,

I think this was long already in the developer's plan to be the way it is now.....

My point in this dig into the thread was to clarify with the original concept developer (BTAxis) whether it was in place already as planned.....

Sorry to disappoint u folks, but i dun think this was meant for further discussions...... (And yes, to a certain extent, this HAS an element of RPG, just not the role playing part, but incremental XP / stats part).

[Another Guy]

Well, just my 2 cents...
Anyway, I think there is a plan for a training facility in the future. Maybe rokies could train faster than veterans, balancing veteran loss (but never as good as a veteran).

[odie]

Well, just my 2 cents...

Anyway, I think there is a plan for a training facility in the future. Maybe rookies could train faster than veterans, balancing veteran loss (but never as good as a veteran).

1) If u saw Psionics training, it aint animore - Trashed Psionic Training

2) If its base training - Training Simulator, then it is still in place.

If its point 1, forget it.

If its point 2, then its still severely not worked on yet, cos there are other more impt stuff at moment the devs are working on. Taking a look at Whats written for the concept of training and u will know why.

Maybe u wanna help write up a proposal on training?

[Another Guy]

I meant #2. Too lazy to add it to wiki, I'll just post here:

My sugestion is just that training gets very fast xp at the beggining and then start to get slower and slower xp increase until almost nothing. The rate that it slows down should be adjusted by how many months of gameplay has passed, to adjust for the progress of the game. That would raise rookies fast to almost veterans levels at any point of the game. ofc, real veteran survivors should be always better than trained rookies to reward survival.
The wiki text as it is written now can pass on the wrong idea. That facility should cost good money, ofc. But should never be a "skill shop".

[odie]

I meant #2. Too lazy to add it to wiki, I'll just post here:

My sugestion is just that training gets very fast xp at the beggining and then start to get slower and slower xp increase until almost nothing. The rate that it slows down should be adjusted by how many months of gameplay has passed, to adjust for the progress of the game. That would raise rookies fast to almost veterans levels at any point of the game. ofc, real veteran survivors should be always better than trained rookies to reward survival.
The wiki text as it is written now can pass on the wrong idea. That facility should cost good money, ofc. But should never be a "skill shop".

Have u used RPGMaker before btw?

It sounds something like the level up engine system they used......
It very low gradiant for maybe first 30/100 levels, rising steeply from maybe lvl 60 onwards.

Its quite the same for alot of RPGs lvl up systems.
A bit like this graph:
http://www.benefactum.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/goldrush_graph1.jpg

Maybe we can consider adopting the green graph? lol. or the red.

[PhilRoi]

Meh, just assign a more experienced soldier to the Training Lab as an instructor.  like we were with doctors and the hospitals back in 2.1

training improvement is based on difference between instructor and student stats.  the greater the difference (when a student score in a stat is lower then the instructors corresponding score.) the greater the improvement.   as students get closer to the instructors scores the improvement tapers off.....
lets you use your veterans to bring the rookies up to speed.

thus as the game progresses and as your instructors get better and gain experiance they will be able to get the rookies up to speed faster.

if you don't want to deal with actually assigning instructors.   Just have the game do a periodic check of your soldiers skills and set the level of instruction at the highest level a soldier has in that stat.   

this actually simulates what we do in the military,  we are ALWAYS taking time to teach each other skills and work on our training.  It's all about teaching each other.  and considering that Phalanx is recruiting the best of the best it makes sense that they would be teaching each other and giving each other pointers to keep themselves at their best.

and per the current written proposal...  have a credit cost to cover operational costs and instructional materials.

[Another Guy]

Odie: Yep, thats the idea, with the exception that that the gradiant should be readjusted each month so it is still usable on late game for new recruits.

Philroi: Nice idea as well. Mechanics described seems very similar to Battlescared idea, but applied to training labs instead of recruiting mechanics. May be easier to implement and more reliable than my own. Since training lab system is not designed yet, now is the time for sux complex ideas. Cheers!