project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Modifiable Environment  (Read 11711 times)

Offline BTAxis

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *******
  • Posts: 2607
    • View Profile
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 01:11:01 pm »
We already have small objects that can be broken like that. But that's not what destructible terrain is about. It's about blowing holes in walls.

Offline TroubleMaker

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 01:24:40 pm »
We already have small objects that can be broken like that. But that's not what destructible terrain is about. It's about blowing holes in walls.
I know. But we already have broken walls of different kinds (see-through, passable-through, only few debris remains) on maps with crashed UFOs. So, what prevents to make wall going thru different stages of destruction by simple replacing one wall with more damaged one?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 01:27:40 pm by TroubleMaker »

Offline Kildor

  • Project Artist
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 757
  • Project mapper and some other stuff`er
    • View Profile
    • http://ufoai.nx0.ru
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 02:05:56 pm »
precalculated shadows and pathfinding?

Offline ghosta

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2008, 02:25:56 pm »
I had the same idea, but there are at least 2 problems I can think about (pathfinding isn`t one i guess)

#1 You need someone to draw these maps! Every wall/stone/door should have at least 2 states of itself. Reaching from non-destructed to plane earth. You would have to make every map twice + updating the old ones.

#2 If you dont want a whole wall being destroyed by shooting at an edge of it you would have to draw the wall with little pieces. This way you get around 5-10 additional faces. If you destroy one of the pieces the next state of destruction wont be a flat wall again, it is going to have corners/fractions/shards (more and more faces).

Offline BTAxis

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *******
  • Posts: 2607
    • View Profile
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2008, 02:46:55 pm »
Pathfinding is an issue now, but that might change with wilminator's patches.

Then there is the shadow issue, as Kildor pointed out. Even if you destroy the wall, its shadow won't disappear, which is bad. We'd need dynamic shadows to solve this problem, and that just isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Then there's your polycount. Adding destroyed versions of everything will dramatically increase the amount of faces on the map, which will slow down the game. We aren't willing to accept that.

And yes, the work involved to make all those wall segments and their destroyed versions increases the work required by a LOT. This is more of a practical barrier. We have enough work as it is without having to remake every map a few times.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 06:12:56 pm by BTAxis »

Offline TroubleMaker

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 03:19:07 pm »
Then there's your polycount. Adding destroyed versions of everything will dramatically increase the amount of faces on the map, which will slow down the game. We aren't willing to accept that.
Hmm... you're the boss :)
But I still can't understand why any model can't be replaced with another in runtime?
And I will not insist or even propose that EVERYTHING must be destructable. As I already told, there are some walls degraded for different degrees. Why not to start with them as with good starting point?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 03:33:16 pm by TroubleMaker »

Sophisanmus

  • Guest
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 05:56:06 pm »
The bulk of the map is made of "brushes", which are chunks of geometry, not models.  These 'bricks', if you will, can vary greatly in size and shape, within certain limitations.  The primary problem with damage-staging is that many of these brushes can be quite large; a basic house can consist of just 4 brushes regardless of its overall size.  Such a wall brush may span 10 or more spaces on the game grid, and having such a brush 'degrade' all along its length from damage sustained at a single point looks clumsy and cheap. 

There are two foreseeable solutions, but each presents its own set of problems.  Breaking down the larger brushes into smaller pieces multiplies the filesize and processing demands of playing the map well beyond the goals of this project, and possibly to unplayable levels regardless of hardware ability.  Deforming brushes on the fly would require some fancy coding which would open up whole new cans of worms, still has the shadow/pathfinding hiccups, and may also scale processing demands beyond the project's scope.  Thus, both are out of the question, barring major breakthrough down the road. 

Look at the cover/concealment thread.  There are ideas for a system of projectile-pass through of brushes and such, which may allow for a fair amount of realistic-ish through-obstacle combat. 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 05:58:51 pm by Sophisanmus »

Offline BTAxis

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *******
  • Posts: 2607
    • View Profile
Re: Modifiable Environment
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 06:15:40 pm »
And with that, I'm closing this thread. This is not the first time we've had this discussion, and I doubt it's the last time, but it's pointless to continue.