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Which one X-com UFO Defense, or UFO Alien Invasion

X-COM UFO DEFENSE
2 (20%)
UFO Alien Invasion
8 (80%)
OTHER
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: July 05, 2007, 03:10:45 pm

Author Topic: Your Tactics  (Read 70842 times)

zircher

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2008, 05:35:52 am »
I'm in the anti-pistol crew, I dump everything but assault rifles and sniper rifles and I match those up with each soldier's skill.  Every soldier is a rifleman and a medic.  Since I don't have pistols, I put the medi-kit in the holster and load it and the belt up with frag grenades.  Most engagements are over with before you run out of ammo so I have on clip in the belt and one or two in the backpack.  Of course, combat armor for everyone.  That's my starting load out.

As the game advances, I'll give a few heavy lasers to those that are skilled and bolters/laser rifles for the rest.  I like the medium to long range engagements.  :-)

I also have a tendancy to start my soldiers with a frag grenade in their off hand after I have researched plasma grenades.  This gives my troops a lot of practice with lobbing surplus frag grenades.  Improving your throwing skill becomes essential with plasma and gas grenades later.  Clever use of 'bank shots' with grenades makes them a flexible weapon system.
--
TAZ

Oh yeah, dropping a grenade only takes a single TU if you don't have a place to chuck it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 05:37:46 am by zircher »

Offline DanielOR

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2008, 06:26:10 am »
clever way to boost grenade-lobbing skill.  have to look into that - currently do not use grenades at all, almost.

I am almost all the way with you on the loadout.  I am a big fan of the machine gun, though.  Great killing power, great range. 

In early game, where you cannot sustain any shots - grneade launchers are a great support / suppression weapon.  Lately, though, I switched the GL for SMG's - once I had next armor up.  I am rapidly starting to like those - send two guy on flanking maneuvers to get up close or even to support an odd sniper - lots of noise in general direction of a baddy keeps them pinned, gives the sniper a chance to shoot.

Aiki-Knight

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2008, 05:55:30 am »
I try to edit my loadouts so my snipers can switch to pistols as primary weapons, and still carry their rifles.

This is important when entering buildings, where a pistol is better for the tight spaces.  After all, in the starting scenario, there are aliens in the closest buildings.

This is an interesting and well-founded approach, although I find that pistols have a harder time taking down the tougher aliens such as Ortnoks, who can at times absorb a disturbing number of rounds. It's definitely true that maneuverability is important in tight spaces, but it's my opinion that the SMG is best for this. It's still small, although a 2-handed weapon, and it can auto-fire far better than a pistol. It needs fewer reloads, and packs way more punch. Indeed, I believe the SMG was designed for this, and this is why many top-level special forces and SWAT teams use various SMGs like the MP5. However, I do equip my sniper and grenadier with pistols, just as you say, for the same reason: a smart and clearly carefully considered tactic.

As for my general loadout, it goes thus:

1 sniper, armed with sidearm for close-quarters fighting
1 heavy machine gunner: for general heavy fire support
1 grenadier: for indirect fire and nest-clearing, armed with sidearm for close fighting
1 rifleman armed with the assault rifle, which has a better range than  the SMG.
3 "stormtroopers": armed with SMGs, and tend to be the ones used to storm buildings and rooms
1 medic: armed also with SMG and medi-kit. Tends to stay back and middle, so she can branch out for medical assistance.

I used to use the shotgun for my primary stormtrooper, but found the shotgun really lacking at mid-range fighting, so I switched to the SMG. I also have shied away from too many assault rifles, mostly because I find that assault-rifle armed agents tend to reaction-fire with one shot (even when set to full-auto on reaction fire). I also used the flamethrower for close storming, but found the weapon wholly useless except at close-range. I'd like to develop a good, specific use for the flamethrower, such as against alien bunkers (the reason for which flamethrowers were originally designed), but a small special-forces team needs more versatility than is afforded by the flamethrower.

The sniper is really the chess-queen of the battlefield. With a good sniper post and excellent team discipline, the player can really punish the aliens with the sniper, which is exactly what snipers are intended and meant to do. A good sniper can win a mission, just as a real situation, and is a must to almost any mission where there are sizable distances to cover. This use of the sniper in UFO:AI is what makes this game so excellent. It really rewards the player for developed a sophisticated practice, not just a standard loadout. In the XCOM series, there was really little advantage in using snipers, although I still did. This game really takes advantage of the diversity of weapons, while limiting the sniper realistically with such issues as magazine load and fire rate. My sniper is almost always escorted by another agent with better close-in fighting abilities.

I really want to develop a doctrine for melee fighting. Generally, I avoid melee fighting because it usually happens as a result of bad fire-arc control and poor planning. However, I would like to eventually develop a well-tested doctrine for equipment and tactics for bladed kills. Currently, all agents carry a plasma blade, the one-shot death knife, but never has an alien come even remotely close enough to necessitate using one. My general plan is to cover all arcs of fire and approach, then win the firefight through superior planning and aim. When the aliens stop assaulting and hide, then it's time for very careful SWAT-style assault: mutual cover, watching all arcs, flashbang/frag a room, then storm. More than once has an alien popped out of a room at close range to try and take out my agents, only to find 2-4 agents stacked up with various firing angles on that very door, followed by a hail of bullets.

That kind of tension, and the way the game rewards the meticulous player, is what makes UFO:AI not just a game, but an experience. Like I've said in other posts, this kind of game teaches a real skill, one of planning and management. It's chess, but far more exciting!

zircher

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2008, 04:19:18 pm »
I really want to develop a doctrine for melee fighting. Generally, I avoid melee fighting because it usually happens as a result of bad fire-arc control and poor planning. However, I would like to eventually develop a well-tested doctrine for equipment and tactics for bladed kills.
Hmm, the idea of a 'ninja' team sounds fun.  But, I find that the only melee training that I need is that narrow window between the development of the stunrod and the development of the gas grenade.  After you have gas grenades, melee combat is an accident and generally not part of my plan.

Currently, all agents carry a plasma blade, the one-shot death knife, but never has an alien come even remotely close enough to necessitate using one.
It's not a knife, it's a hand held panzerfaust.  ;-)

They may become important when alien vehicles are added to the game, especially if they're invulnerable to small arms fire.
--
TAZ
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 04:21:52 pm by zircher »

Aiki-Knight

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2008, 08:02:43 am »
Can we not use the plasma blade against alien troops?

zircher

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2008, 03:36:07 pm »
Sure you can, it's just not my tactical style.
--
TAZ

Roy Dest

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2008, 03:02:12 pm »
I've got two identic teams, Alpha and Beta, four guys each. I play on the diffculty just below "normal", or standard. Every team consists of

Sniper - No grenades, pistols, or meelee weapons, no need.
Grenadier - the artillery guy, good for shooting behind a fence, wall, or on roofs. Recently I tried to give one grenadier a rocket launcher, but I don't know yet if it's a good choice. These guys gets used the least, but when yes, they're irreplaceable.
Assaulter - having some rifle, most newly - a particle beam rifle, which really kicks, whatever the aliens has instead of ass. Assaulters attacks, defends, guards, just as everyone else, when needed.
Agent - quick, skilled in close combat guy, wielding a particle pistol and a stun rod. Good for exploring the map, securing rooms, and killing everything what comes too close. I'm gonna soon replace the stunning rod with gas grenades, I hope that helps.

So, this is Alpha or Beta team. So far it works rather well, I don't reload a mission 20 times or so. My problems are caused probably by a lack of a good armor (manufacturing it somehow doesn't work) and my ignorance of medikits, which lies uselessly in every soldier's backpack.

Offline DanielOR

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2008, 05:49:22 pm »
Roy,

well, you better figure out production, brother - armor does rule. 
Medkits - equip in the off-hand, stand next to wounded dude/gal, choose "heal" (as oppose to "throw" - thwoing a medikit at the head of a wounded soldier is not an approved healing technique).

I am with you on two element teams.  If I am not clear on where the enemy is and need to explore, that is how I break up - two teams, one weapon of each kind in each.

We differ on machine guns.  I love those things.  I think your life will be easier if you embrace the machine gun instead of SMG, for now.  Eventually you can switch your GL guys to SMG + granades (same skill as GL).  For now - use the superior range.

Offline Telok

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2008, 06:16:02 pm »
Two snipers, two explosives, two heavies, and two expendables.

The snipers cover each other and head for high ground or LOS to trouble spots, clip and medkit holstered. My heavies use machine guns until I get heavy lasers and fill the assault and suppression role. Clip, medkit, and flash or gas 'nades for these boys. Exploders use grenade launchers and have ammo and a rocket launcher in the pack, flash/frag or gas/plasma 'nades in belt, and a medkit in the holster. These guys are a prime kill team, I've gotten good at lobbing around corners and over stuff by targeting a few squares short and <shift>ing my aim up with timed grenades. The expendables start with a SMG and holstered medkit, up-armor to laser pistol and stun rod, finally topping out with particle beam pistol and medkit in-hand.

The actual tactics are pretty simple and obvious. The expendables scout things out, sometimes shooting aliens and sometimes retreating when they find them. Heavies and explosives follow them in, killing or flushing aliens with direct and indirect fire. Obviously the snipers pop anything they can see.

Offline DanielOR

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2008, 10:09:25 pm »
Does there have to be an "expendable" pair?  I think slow and careful progress allows everyone to come home. 

babunito

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2008, 01:09:39 am »
Two snipers, two explosives, two heavies, and two expendables.

I found a good diversity of skills of my troops extremely useful in the long run as new toys are becoming available. Diverse team (not just snipers and close combat troops) might not perform perfectly on purely open or purely bunker style maps, but ... they will perform on all maps (the word consistency is the key here).

I have to agree that reaction fire in open areas is a luxury of players who reload after sustaining casualties. I do reload and if I did not, all my snipers would have been killed 1-2 times by now. When there are 4-5 aliens shooting at my guys from particle rifles, then 2 hits (with nano armor) is enough to free the poor sinner's soul.

The team:
Stage I                Stage II
2xSnipers              1xSniper
1xGL                    1xGL (he gets to places nobody gets to)
1xRocket L            1xRocket L (he never misses)
1xHeavy Gunner     1xHeavy Laser
1xFlamer               1xFlamer (one of the highest kill scores - the only trooper who can enter a room with 2-3 armored orntoks and survive on his own)
1xAssault              2xLaser Rifles
1xSMG                  1xSMG + Gas Grenades

Many wrote about gas grenades. My SMG guy has about 10 of them on him (holster and belt) and there were few maps when I used all of them (with 5 captured aliens). If one wants to keep casualties to minimum, throw a gas grenade and then ask questions/enter room later. It helps with blocking civilians too or putting them to sleep vs allowing them to run back into open asking to be killed. I used it to great effect for saving my troopers - half stunned solder is impossible to kill, since the moment his health dips below stun (gray) line he will get knocked out and survive the mission (better stunned then dead for sure). I have to confess in violating international agreements on multiple occasions by gassing not only aliens but my solders as well for the aforementioned reasons. While it might be hard to throw a grenade too close to the alien to stun them immediately, half stun plus few laser shots convinces them effectively in favor of sleeping.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 01:19:16 am by babunito »

Offline DanielOR

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2008, 01:33:57 am »
Flamethrower - highest kills?  Really?  I am impressed.  If you can toss a couple of grenades in the room, why burn, then?

Rocket L - wow.  How many rockets do you take with you?

Is GL guy THAT much better that a SMG guy with many gas grenades?  I would remove the GL guy in favor of two SMG + gas grenade specialists.  Same guy, actually - now two can clear rooms, suppress across the map on reaction fire, and lob greandes.

on my squad the record for highest numebr of kills with one shot belongs to a GL guys, of all people.  Mansion mission, 5 aliens were coming down the stairs in a perfect "+" formation.  he poked his head in, placed 3 rounds, air-burst, smack in the middle of the group.  4 aliens were instant fertilizer, one more stood on his feet until a SMG guy poked his head in and put the last of the Ortnoks to sleep


Offline DanielOR

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2008, 01:44:26 am »
one more thing.  stun rods and gas grenades for convincing civilians to follow reason is an old, tried and true technique.  Knocking out your own soldiers, however - now here is an unorthodox rescue technique.

babunito

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2008, 07:23:44 pm »
Flamethrower - highest kills?  Really?  I am impressed.  If you can toss a couple of grenades in the room, why burn, then?

Normal grenades have to be tossed right next to the armored orntok to be effective - fire kills with 100% certainty. Gas grenades do become very effective and I do a lot of tossing. The reason for my adherence to flamer is due to my attempts to develop a technique for next game I will play, when I will minimize reliance on reaction fire (RF) (due to no reload for killed troopers). Imaging a need to run through the corridor and duck into a room, where 1-2 aliens might hide or not. If I throw grenade before entering then I will have only 5 TU remaining - god forbid even one remained alive. Entering with SMG and using it if necessary is OK against tamans, but in a 5x5 room it will not always kill armored orntok. Flamer is always the best bet in those situations - nothing survives his entry with 12 TUs ... ever.

Rocket L - wow.  How many rockets do you take with you?

Good question - many. Weapon(1) + Belt (1) + Holster (3) + backpack (remaining space after medi-kit ~3). He performs a function of a sniper actually with scary efficiency. As I said he almost never misses and always kills.

Is GL guy THAT much better that a SMG guy with many gas grenades?  I would remove the GL guy in favor of two SMG + gas grenade specialists.  Same guy, actually - now two can clear rooms, suppress across the map on reaction fire, and lob grenades.

I am inclined to agree. GL guy might be less effective, but he does become more attractive the more conservative your play becomes. If I saw an alien across the fence I will never send laser/fire troopers there before massive doses of GL fired grenades. He will not be always effective, but every kill insures one less exposure of my troops to direct line of fire. As aliens will start using RF more often getting out of cover will become that much more dangerous.

on my squad the record for highest number of kills with one shot belongs to a GL guys, of all people.  Mansion mission, 5 aliens were coming down the stairs in a perfect "+" formation.  he poked his head in, placed 3 rounds, air-burst, smack in the middle of the group.  4 aliens were instant fertilizer, one more stood on his feet until a SMG guy poked his head in and put the last of the Ortnoks to sleep

Hi five for GL trooper! My flamer is behind - his max toast count in one shot is 3 so far.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 07:37:51 pm by babunito »

Offline DanielOR

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Re: Your Tactics
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2008, 09:48:38 pm »
Man, oh man!  It sounds like I have two new weapons to practive with...  HE specialist acting as a sniper...  Flamethrower, too.

Ok, this is what bugs me about those two weapons: they are both narrowly specialized.  A rockel launcher is no good at clearing rooms and a flamethrower is useless anywhere outside close range.  A sniper can crouch and hold the coridir of a building and the SMG can actually score a kill at a signifocant distance (due to a large number number of bullets fired) or at least scare the crap out of the bad guys by sounding all loud and scary.  My (somewhat irrational) tendency towards having everyone be at least decent at everything is keeping me from embracing those highly specialized weapons. 

In my defense, the under-barrell grenade launcher employed by the US army replaced the M-80 grenade launcher (Vietnam time frame) for just that reason - a guy with a grenade launcher was one rifleman less.