General > Discussion
Laser Rifle - useless ?
jbabcock:
--- Quote from: Zenerka ---Please do. Do not use stats from wiki. Go to base/ dir, unpack 0ufos.pk3 (or enter ufo dir if you are using something other than installer) and grab stats from weapons_*.ufo files.
Also, it could be great to have such weapon stats page on the wiki, if you have time...
--- End quote ---
And please include not only damage and time but also damage rate (damage/tu). In a sustained firefight with multiple soldiers that is probably the most important stat. Obviously, for reaction fire and one on one combat this is not necessarily true, but in AI the adage about a firefight being about who has more firepower seems to hold true. You may also want to figure in reload times damage_per_round / (time_per_round + (reload_time/mag_capacity)).
This will make a big difference for weapons with small magazines. I'm not sure how the source (pack, belt) of the ammo affects the reload time though, that could also be a factor.
Also damage type would be useful to have as well.
blondandy:
i am on it.
http://ufoai.ninex.info/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1398&highlight=
for your own sanity, don't do it in excel.
give me a few days, more tables to come...
inquisiteur2:
Ah I wasn't aware of that, I you require some suggestion I would be happy to look at it once it is finalised, or if you have a more detailed draft to submit.
Surrealistik:
Reload times are rarely signifigant at all unless the following criteria, measured through use of this calculation is met:
# of enemy soldiers / by the # of your soldiers / 2 (your soldiers can be reasonably expected to inflict up to twice the casualties worth of damage minimally necessary)* 115 (approximate average of extreme low and high health).
/ this by # of rounds * the average of the min and max damage per round given the weapon's firemodes * average protection % vs the weapon damage type afforded by all armours.
If this quotient is greater than 1, there is a considerable probability that reloading will occur.
So let's say the average protection vs fire was 50% (.50), and I'm using a flamethrower. There are 8 soldiers on the opposing team. There are 4 on mine.
Ammo is 6.
Step #1: ((90 / 1 (Candlelight)) + (180 / 2 (Inferno))) / 2 = 90
Step #2: 90 * 6 = 540
Step #3: 540 * .50 <? 115 * (8 / (4 / 2))
Step #4: 270 <? 115 * 4
Step #5: 270 < 460
Step #6: 460 / 270 = 1.703 - 1 (Representing the first clip which does not require reloading).
Step #7: 1 (Round up because we cannot partially load a magazine)
Result is > 0 so reloading is likely and thus relevant, making it prudent to factor in the impact of reloading when regarding the Damage/TU efficiency/firepower of a weapon.
As soon as I get good data pertaining to:
A: the average range at which combat occurs, and
B: the impact of various spreads at this range on hit probability.
I will factor in an accuracy component as well. Clearly this isn't a model which offers perfectly accurate predictions, but it is a useful one. Please note that "overkill" firemodes (ones that use more ammo than is necessary to kill a single target, SMG full auto for example), and those that feature splash damage may present exceptions.
The protection % used in this calculation should obviously be adjusted as appropriate if you know the armour your opponent will be equipped with, or your knowledge otherwise suggests that a bias towards a certain value is more appropriate than a simple average.
EDIT: Added some clarifications (hopefully).
Wanderer:
--- Quote from: "Surrealistik" ---Please note that "overkill" firemodes (ones that use more ammo than is necessary to kill a single target, SMG full auto for example), and those that feature splash damage may present exceptions.
--- End quote ---
On Very Hard, and sometimes even hard... there is no overkill... just proper application of excessive force. :)
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