Melee Attack Suggestions

[Surrealistik]

#1: Coup De Grace/"Vital Strike" (Happy Pshawn? )

Some sort of deathstroke melee attack should be possible against an oblivious target (defined as one that does not perceive the attacker) for obvious reasons. The deathstroke would deal several times the normal base damage of the weapon's otherwise most powerful attack mode (3-4x), costing signifigantly more TUs to reflect the additional time required to deliver a decisive, deadly precision strike. The TU/damage (efficiency) ratio of the Coup De Grace should be vastly superior to the weapon's other attack modes despite this increase in TU cost however.

#2: Reaction fire for melee weapons.

You should be able to guillotine/attack/jump a target that passes within melee range of you. There is absolutely no good reason for precluding melee reaction fire.

Questions? Comments?

[blondandy]

#1 great idea. it is frustrating to sneak up behind someone and not be able to finish them off.

#2. melee reaction: another top suggestion. (note to devs - if you implement this, make sure there is no reaction fire with the medikit - that would put a dampener on one's day).

[Voller]

make sure there is no reaction fire with the medikit - that would put a dampener on one's day).

Both ideas are good.

[inquisiteur2]

I would add however that if reaction fire is too effective, and if there is no other goal in the map than kill other players, every game will end like a camping fest like a team of snipers in counterstrike. - which is real boredom.

Still, I understand that somone pointing his gun on an entrance and waiting for his foes should be able to shoot him accuratly. Maybe a "reaction" stat, that would be temporarly increased by soldiers having reaction fire on, would be useful to know who shoots first.

[Surrealistik]

Well actually, multiplayer *is* more or less a camping fest at the moment. Reaction fire, coupled with highly accurate, instantly lethal weaponry (particle beam cannon) encourages defensive play, but there are ways around this common tactic (smoke grenades to provide temporary cover, flash bangs, grenades thrown from behind cover, etc...). RF nerfing measures have been discussed, and the idea that currently seems popular is one that involves comparison of TUs and some random factor to determine the probability of a reaction shot. This would be a viable solution given the TU cost associated with reaction fire. As an RFer responds, his overall ability to make further responses declines (giving you an opportunity to kill him from a distance).

As RF pertains to melee weapons, if you get coup de grace'ed as you move through a door or around a corner blindly, you deserve to . When in doubt, blow it out.

[blondandy]

I think it would be good to have a small recon robot, which could not carry weapons. It would be small (hard to hit) and have moderate speed. Think remote control car - or perhaps moon rover. i think 6 wheels would be good.

This recon robot would enable reduced risk exploration. You could find the snipers and then take them out with grenades etc. This should be another way to take the tactical advantage away from campers.

[inquisiteur2]

3 other straigthforward alternatives would be:

1. keep precision (even increase it) but drastically reduce the sight of soldiers having reaction fire set on (they would for instance react and fire at only one direction or one set point (ex a doorway).

2. Restrict number of soldiers having reaction fire set on to two per round.

3. Restrict RF to only assault and close assaulting weapons ex: pistols, pump action, machine gun etc... (this seems already being done in 2.1.1 for ex for rocket launcher)

On a somewhat related note RF should not work the same way for every weapon: at point blank range only smal firearms would be allowed (raising a pistol is quicker than raising a M60 to shoot at point blank range), at long distance almost every weapon would be ok.

[Wanderer]

On a somewhat related note RF should not work the same way for every weapon: at point blank range only smal firearms would be allowed (raising a pistol is quicker than raising a M60 to shoot at point blank range), at long distance almost every weapon would be ok.

Well, in theory, you're looking at having the weapons raised and your finger on the trigger already, however, there's an alternative.

Reaction fire is exactly that... it's a reaction.  You're not really checking your target other then finding a moving something.

Have an intelligence (or other stat) based possibility of shooting ANYTHING that suddenly comes into view.  Friendly.  Civilian.  Alien.  Your ability to comprehend quickly enough friend or foe when you're amped on adreniline is kinda low.  

Perhaps have two settings for RF... Hyper sensitive or Target Confirmation... and lower Target Confirmation's ability to fire before the main player's.

[Surrealistik]

Firstly (and I don't mean to come off as anal), I'd like to request discussion pertaining to Reaction Fire be split into another topic. Secondly, I'm glad that this issue is being more actively discussed on the forum; this is a good thing, however it needs to be done in a thread more pertinent to it. That said, I'd like to review some of the proposals on the matter:

I think it would be good to have a small recon robot, which could not carry weapons. It would be small (hard to hit) and have moderate speed. Think remote control car - or perhaps moon rover. i think 6 wheels would be good.

This recon robot would enable reduced risk exploration. You could find the snipers and then take them out with grenades etc. This should be another way to take the tactical advantage away from campers.

Scouting drones, or something like them is being considered (I think). I am not certain whether it will be ultimately included. This would definitely help address the problem by locating RFers so they can be attacked via indirect munitions and splash damage (grenades/parabolic trajectory weapons/etc...).

1. keep precision (even increase it) but drastically reduce the sight of soldiers having reaction fire set on (they would for instance react and fire at only one direction or one set point (ex a doorway).

2. Restrict number of soldiers having reaction fire set on to two per round.

3. Restrict RF to only assault and close assaulting weapons ex: pistols, pump action, machine gun etc... (this seems already being done in 2.1.1 for ex for rocket launcher)

#1: Not realistic. Precision should if anything, decrease as a consequence of reaction fire.

#2: Arbitrary restrictions are poor ones. The solution should make logical sense. That aside, RF is still extremely powerful even if restricted in this way.

#3: I agree with this. Only weapons that can be quickly discharged/employed should be permitted to exploit RF. I do not agree however, with restricting RF on all explosive weaponry as has been done. If it's plausible for an explosive to be used in RF, that explosive should be permitted to benefit from it. To the people who would counter that RF on a grenade launcher (as an example) might be devastating in terms of friendly fire: if this risk is considerable, deactivate RF for your grenadier.

Reaction fire is exactly that... it's a reaction. You're not really checking your target other then finding a moving something.

Have an intelligence (or other stat) based possibility of shooting ANYTHING that suddenly comes into view. Friendly. Civilian. Alien. Your ability to comprehend quickly enough friend or foe when you're amped on adreniline is kinda low.

Perhaps have two settings for RF... Hyper sensitive or Target Confirmation... and lower Target Confirmation's ability to fire before the main player's.

I'm not sure if I agree with this suggestion. The discrepancy in appearance between aliens and humans is obvious to such an extent that you'd probably be able to determine the difference immediately.  

Personally I prefer restricting RF to certain weapons and firemodes (snap shot/burst/full auto and similar variants), and having TU comparisons impact checks to determine whether or not Reaction Fire is triggered. After all the more "occupied" your soldier is over a given period of time (as demonstrated by remaining TUs) the less likely his actions are to preceed those of someone not so distracted/busied.

[inquisiteur2]

regarding point 1., I was thinking about a sniper knowing that his prey will exit a building from the main door, thus he aims at the door waiting her to popup - if this is RF, then precision should be high; if RF is only a matter of adrenaline and pure "reaction" then indeed I am wrong; but then this means that RF should not be predicted and as a consequence allocating  RF points is no more logical.

To contradict myself a little bit, I used to camp a bit in counterstrike behind crates, and I must say that RF is not very easy, even if prepared when the opponent bounces in front me I am generally stressed and unprepared and shoot (sometimes don't even have time to) with low accuracy.

I think we need first to define what is really a RF.

Also, we have missed somehting important, a soldier using RF is very vulnerable next turn since he wont have enough action points to hide or return fire effectively.