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Author Topic: Save in Combat  (Read 39107 times)

bri49

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2008, 02:30:40 pm »
The entire reason for a tactical game save option is, for me, the fact that I want the excitement of the initial experience. I want to savor every moment and make sensible tactical decisions to protect the lives of my squad.
I am not interested in playing through a tactical scenario over and over simply for the false reward of optimal results, but I might have accidently hit the "E" key instead of the "W" key somewhere along the way and totally screwed up my game. Or, I may not have enough time to finish before I get interrupted by another family member needing to use the computer (sorry, we only own one!) so I'm left with only one alternative- rush and play sloppily.
Perhaps I'm getting old, but I find it difficult and highly undesirable in many cases, to play a thoughtful, well executed tactical episode in less than an hour (the mine shaft and the NY subway battles come to mind).
I hope somewhere along the way, this imposition on game play somehow gets resolved. A saved game is not a moral issue, it's a sensible, welcomed convenience in todays hectic world.

Captain Bipto

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« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2008, 11:35:28 am »
Try looking after kids Captain. When you're a parent (or baby sitter) of two 2-1/2 year olds, having 30 minutes of uninterrupted computer time will be quite a rare luxury.

Or try being someone with a job that requires them to be "on call" nearly 24/7, such as emergency room doctors, firemen, etc... With that kind of work you get the call and you drop what you;re doing and run out the door. Which makes a save in battle feature a necessity for thorough enjoyment of the game.

Also thanks Nemchenk for looking into this. an auto save after every turn sounds like just what those of us with priorities that come before video games need.

I can be who I wanna be, I don't have to try! I love this game but I donno if I'd like the babysitter (who should be doing their job) to be playing this absorbing game. If a kind person could mod-in saving features it would be appreciated, after all professionals and parents (especiallyprofessional parents!) play this game too.





ysu

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2008, 06:10:40 am »
How about a limited number of temporary save slots per mission? 5 or 10 at most. These slots would be deleted as soon as you win or lose the mission.

Regards,
Winter

You did not read this post above, eh? :)

I agree with those who say to put it in, and the above limits would also satisfy the iron man gametype fans (I'm sure they won't play on anything less than hard).  I also had to quit missions due to r/l committments, and once the game hung up on me in combat too.  Apart from that, yeah, I'd like to be able not to loose half an hour gameplay due to an unlucky shot.

just my 2c

Smig

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2008, 06:39:23 pm »
Frankly, I never felt the need to save an in-game mission until now since I usually never save unless I'm leaving (but I do need to save when I'm leaving) and I respect the fact that this developers team like to play the way I do, I always try to play in that ironman concept but I never needed that behaviour to be dictated by feature limitations.

First of all, is cheating such a big deal? Saving is allowed because it's usefull, it's in all games this game is inspired on or competes with. They've gone with the extra trouble of coding and testing that for a reason. Did the ability to save broke any of those games? Would you want any of those games fixed by disabling that feature? I don't think so.

Anyway, I guess the reasons to include that feature have all been explained in detail while reasons not to include it have not. I think this probably isn't top priority right now but I don't really believe some of the explanations about the atmosphere and stuff. I think the developers were simply lazy about this, it's a lot of work to implement it and they wouldn't make much use of it anyway (as most os us would not). And I don't mean this with any disrespect, I wouldn't dare to call opensource developers of free software so expertly done up to this point, lazy ;D we're all lazy in a way and I would win if there was a contest, my criticism goes only for the reasons given that doesn't make sense to me. If the reason is lack of time and desire to implement it, fine, we can only hope someone will have both one day. If there is really an effort to keep the game from having that feature because of the atmosphere and cheating and all, then I'm not fine with that. I really don't care how people like to play their games but I do care about the limitations to them if they spoil my own game experience.

That's why I don't really agree with the limited saving ability either, I think this game lacks that feature for lack of time/desire to implement it and not really for any other big reason so if someone's going to implement it I'd rather if you'd go all the way as any other game out there. It's probably much simpler to do that anyway than to develop the algorythms necessary to try and stop people who enjoy the game in different ways.

Offline Silveressa

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2008, 06:45:25 pm »
Very well put Smig, I'm curious how close to the mark of truth you hit with that :)

Sophisanmus

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2008, 12:51:53 am »
I write this, in part, after having the game bug out after my laptop hibernated due to low battery, just moments before completing a long and rather frustrating mission.  The other part had to do with reading up on a blog/article referencing many situations where saving restrictions have greatly diminished the fun of gameplay, for minimal benefit towards the designer's vision.

If it is more of a design philosophy change, rather than an actual technical limitation or resource/time constraint, then perhaps a compromise could be made.  Within the initial settings of the game, wherein the player selects his difficulty level, there could be an optional in-battle saving toggle.  When on, the player can save (and reload) mid-battle without restriction.  Alternatively, the toggle can be shut off, and battle progress will instead be auto-saved at the start and end of each team's round.  Perhaps the autosave could even be erased when loaded, and thus only re-established at the next turn change.  This would present a buffer of sorts for the forced leaving of the game, or even a random crash, while still keeping the mode a bit more 'hardcore' than other games. 

Additionally, perhaps an in-game option to re-enable player-controlled saving could be placed as an in-game options, though with no going back to 'hardcore' battle saving once the restriction has been removed. 

I hope this can help strike a middle-ground, where players can opt for the added challenge and tension involved in a "one-life" approach to missions without the benefit of rampant save-loading, while still allowing leniency for the players who would be otherwise turned off by such an approach.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 12:55:31 am by Sophisanmus »

Offline Winter

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2008, 01:28:36 am »
Hmm, at this point I don't see any room for battlescape saving other than a simple autosave function. That would address most concerns while leaving the concept well enough intact.

Regards,
Winter

Aarontu

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2008, 05:53:23 am »
I remember playing some game a long time ago where you went into a dungeon or something and you couldn't save/reload over and over, but you could save and quit and come back. It worked like this:

If you save mid-mission, the game quit to the title screen after saving. If you load a game that was saved mid-mission, the saved game is either deleted or changed so that the current mission is counted as aborted or something (you have to win the current mission and then save it to overwrite it).

Offline Mattn

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2008, 07:23:10 am »
even if you all would hate me for this - there will be NO save feature in battlescape - no auto save, no you-are-allowed-to-safe-5-times-feature, nothing else. If you want to have such a feature i would love to provide the patch on the page - but again, never in an official release. I'm sorry. Also that's the last time i'm responding to this. If you want such a feature, code it, supply a patch, others can apply it then - that's what's open source is about - but never in any official release.

Offline Silveressa

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2008, 07:43:59 am »
Right, typical.

Any chance of getting the real reason why?

I get the impression the "too lazy to code it" guess is pretty close to the mark.

I'm more curious at this point the actual reasoning "why not never" then any hopes of logically reasoning with anyone.

(and on a side note, it's a free game so complaining tends to be a waste of time. Paying companies give a damn because dissatisfied customers cost them profit. Free open source "hobbyists" do it for fun and put in whatever they want regardless of public opinion. Polite and good for PR? No. Well within their rights because they're the ones that are putting the time/effort into coding it? Yes. Likely to inspire outsiders into giving a hand? Unlikely.

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2008, 08:51:02 am »
"Too lazy to code" doesn't cover it. It's not so much the implementing of it as the maintaining part that is the barrier. It's not worth it in the eyes of the development team. For that reason a firm decision was made not to have in-mission saving. Let me say that again. A decision was made. That means there will not be a changing of minds, no matter how much "logical reasoning" you throw at it. This isn't about the game being free, or the devs not giving a damn about anyone, or even about trying to get as many people to help as possible. It's about making design decisions, and then sticking to them.

Offline ManicMiner

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2008, 09:20:04 am »
Fair point about sticking to design decisions.

How about a "Save, Then Enter" button on the screen when the craft is ready to land? That wouldn't affect the design and it would require minimal code.

Offline geever

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2008, 02:05:01 pm »
@ManicMiner: It's done automatically, on quicksave slot, AFAIK.

-geever

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2008, 05:21:13 pm »
Let me say that again. A decision was made. That means there will not be a changing of minds, no matter how much logical reasoning you throw at it.

LOL...you do realise that this sentance isn't exactly flattering. ;)

Smig

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Re: Save in Combat
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2008, 08:28:49 pm »
Mattn: No one will hate you for running your project the way you see fit and we already got more than our money's worth. You haven't said anything new either. I think what frustrates people the most is the lack of a good reason to cut out something that people usually take for granted while receiving these blank "No - Never - No matter what!" responses.

BTAxis: A design decision is not something you should stick to just for the sake of it and there's nothing wrong in rethinking a "firm design decision" if it proves to be detrimental to gameplay. I understand what you're saying since as things keep changing in battlescape, maintaining a bug-free saving system might be hard. But then why not just postpone this feature for late in development, way back in the queue, as a low priority addition?

In any case, since the developers seem to be shielded against all logical reasoning we throw at them, maybe someone else isn't. It's unlikely nemchenk is looking into this, his last post in this thread was on February and on the forum was in March. I hope someone that is already familiar with this code can find the time to develop this feature and maintain it. One thing is obvious, there's a lot of demand for this.