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Author Topic: Thermobaric ammo  (Read 583 times)

Offline nick87720z

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Thermobaric ammo
« on: January 07, 2019, 02:20:05 pm »
This type of ammo is usually used in big ammo, such as missiles or bombs. Smallest implementations includes rocket launcher missiles.
Even if this ammo type is unsuitable for most treat handling missions, it could be very useful during alien base/carrier assault, as there is noone, but aliens.
And probably going to be exceptionally useful at aliens home.

Besides of relatively big RL ammo, 20mm sniper rifle ammo as well as coilgun adaptation.
Also ammo could be splited into fuel-only and fuel+ oxydizer implementations.
- First is conventional type, relying on atmo properties.
- Second may be specially useful for extraterestrial cases or others, when there is unclear, wether destionation air supports fire. While seemingly less powerful, it could get advantage by using specially picked oxydizer, especially fluorum-based.

As for effect in tactical gameplay - such ammo should create blast wave of pretty big radius, but it need support for fuzzed epicenter. Ammo detonation may be implemented as hybrid of smoke, fire and concussive damage.
- First explosion creates fuel cloud in same manner as smoke grenade;
- Resulting fuel field explodes itself with much greater strength after some fracture of second. Each tile generates own explosion, whose waves are summed, resulting in powerful shockwave, spreading in notorious distance beyond fuel cloud;
- Each original cloud tile generates very small cloud of very aggressive gas, which deals fire damage and some sort of smoke damage; if created from versatile fuel+ox ammo type, it should have increased toxic damage.

This ammo type is expected to knock down most aliens in pretty wide area, if not kill them.
Smoke may be enhanced to have increased blinding or/and smoke effects (smoke should dissipate quicker).

Edit (09.01.2019)

Would be wrong to compare fuel-spreading explosion to smoke grenade, as according to sound, smoke grenade works rather by quickly sinking smoke into air through holes. This first explosion should probably do some knocking damage at least to unprotected targets (without shockwave-safe armor).

Yet my proposal about per-tile independend explosions seems to be wrong, as in real case there should be single detonation wave, producing single strong shockwave outside of fuel cloud, as well as mentioned above fire and high pressure inside.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 01:15:47 pm by nick87720z »

Offline Sandro

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Re: Thermobaric ammo
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 04:43:28 am »
Doable. Engine got everything needed, except for the gas cloud simulation (smoke grenade is pretty much a hack). Tile-based approach should do. After all, this is a game, not a physics simulator. You can always rearrange graphics a bit to hide the tiling.

Offline Gu-Doc

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Re: Thermobaric ammo
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2019, 11:38:27 am »

This type of ammo is usually used in big ammo, such as missiles or bombs. Smallest implementations includes rocket launcher missiles.
Even if this ammo type is unsuitable for most treat handling missions, it could be very useful during alien base/carrier assault, as there is noone, but aliens.
And probably going to be exceptionally useful at aliens home.

"SHMEL" INFANTRY ROCKET-ASSISTED FLAMETHROWER video from youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAOuOPjMUZ0

the exposion  look like a flashbang but leaves behind itself a cloud of smoke like a smoke grenade.
In game for example, it can damage all parts of the body and make a bleeding effects

Offline nick87720z

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Re: Thermobaric ammo
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 01:05:16 pm »
I just better looked again about this weapon. Looks like, initial idea of first accurate fuel spreading before detonation is ineffective for infantry weapon, and Shmell uses different approach.

More exactly, translation for this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon
is named as - many variants, so i would write it as "volume/spatial detonation ammo/warhead", so game therminology could use something like VD, SD, and it is told to be usable only on big weapons, like missiles or bombs.

As for Shmell, there is wikipedia page, which doesn't even have english version - it is called Thermobaric explosion, but is more complicated than VD. However, it is less effective on open areas, as shockwave seems to play significant role in burning, and reflected waves improve it.

There is even hand grenade version, but in current gameplay it could be unsave, if thrown grenade detonates in direct site, as explosion radius should be very big.

Speaking about tech, i had idea of environment independent variant, where fuel and oxydizer begin to mix and react while still under shell. I'm not sure, wether it will really improve it.

Offline Gu-Doc

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Re: Thermobaric ammo
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 09:38:25 am »
–†ere's the SMEL (bumblebee) wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPO-A_Shmel    ))

Offline nick87720z

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Re: Thermobaric ammo
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 10:35:58 pm »
Thanks, but i meaned other article, describing principle of bumblebee ammo detonation (which is missing for english). Though english page is still useful - i did not even know that there is GL variant with 1.5 times smaller caliber, but almost same yield.

Edit:
I learned better this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon
Looks like it briefly describes what i previously found only at russian-only page about Thermobaric explosion, referenced from russian version of first link.
So, it is referenced not even by bumblebee page.

Its idea to have fuel mixed with partial amount of oxydizer, begining react (first part) by scattering detonation wave, before second stage (air burning) begins. Which seems to be only true thermobaric variant, effective with calibers, used by infantry weapons.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 11:08:37 pm by nick87720z »