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Author Topic: Strength gain by weight  (Read 4549 times)

Offline Pharaufein

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Strength gain by weight
« on: November 22, 2015, 05:52:19 pm »
To train the strength of soldiers, they have to carry as much weight as possible.
Therefore, I put additional grenade luncher ammo (best weight per area) and whatnot into their backpacks.
Whenever the strength of a soldier changes, I have to annoyingly rearrange their backpacks again.

As a suggestion:
It would be much easier if the strength gain was simply tied to the encumberance instead of the exact weight.
This would not make the game any different, except for eliminating the need for backpack rearrangement.
 

Offline TC

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015, 08:15:20 pm »
To train the strength of soldiers, they have to carry as much weight as possible...
How do you know this? Is it documented somewhere?

Offline Pharaufein

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2015, 08:24:03 pm »
http://ufoai.org/wiki/Skills/Improvement/v2.5

This table is for version 2.5, but I think it is still accurate for 2.6.

My suggestion is to use a different formula not based on weight but only on the ENCUMBERANCE_MODIFIER
Simply using a fixed value for weight in the formula would already do it.

Offline TC

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2015, 08:38:03 pm »
Thank you for the reference.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2015, 11:42:21 pm »
Note that it depends on the average weight carried, not the starting weight. For maximum strength gain you also have to pick weight objects off the ground while the soldier is consuming grenades and ammunition to compensate for the lost weight.^^
I don't do that usually, the time units are too precious. Though I try to transfer the additional replacement ammunition for EM rifle from assault troopers to the sniper needing it as soon as possible, as assault troopers are less tight with carrying capacity.

Offline TC

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 02:04:20 am »
Note that it depends on the average weight carried, not the starting weight.
That detail is not mentioned on the wiki page. Based on your assertion, I will add it now, but mark it with "confirmation required".

Offline Pharaufein

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 02:32:19 pm »
If the average weight counts, the following exploit should work:
It should be possible to train strength by overloading soldiers with equipment of fallen aliens/soldiers once the mission is basically won (only one bloodspider remaining or something).
Aliens rarely carry enough stuff with a good weight/area ratio (plasma blaster charges are quite ok).
However, it should always be possible to at least push each soldier to a higher encumberance modifier.
Then, a number of turns can be skipped to increase the average.

If the starting weight counts, each soldier can instead be equipped with the one smoke grenade in hand, that pushes him to a higher encumberance modifier.
Then in the start of the mission, the smoke grenade can be either immediately used or dropped to the ground.
I have to check if the TU are reimbursed in the same turn the encumberance modifier drops though, otherwise using this exploit might be too costly.


These problems would persists if the skill gain is determined solely on encumberance as suggested by me.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 03:15:50 pm »
That detail is not mentioned on the wiki page. Based on your assertion, I will add it now, but mark it with "confirmation required".
It is mentioned: http://ufoai.org/wiki/Skills/Improvement/v2.5
The code summarizes the weight each soldier carries each turn and divides it by the turns the battle lasted at the end. (I debugged it recently because of http://ufoai.org/bugs/ufoalieninvasion/issues/5555)

Offline Pharaufein

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 03:25:50 pm »
So considering the code behind your link I would say that it works to at least cheat a higher encumberance modifier by picking up some stuff in the end of a mission.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2015, 03:36:18 pm »
So considering the code behind your link I would say that it works to at least cheat a higher encumberance modifier by picking up some stuff in the end of a mission.
I didn't check what the modifier is about when the mission ends, but an average soldier in an average mission will have some weight less than at the start and I'm usually just fed up with the mission, or the situation ending the battle is not safe enough.

Offline Rodmar

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 05:47:05 pm »
Frankly, if you're not a min-maxer, it's nothing really to care about. Just overload your soldier with more than a grenade-worth weight, and strength growths steadily, I mean mission after mission.
For instance, give a medikit to nearly everyone.

Now, I shall confess that I don't need really TUs efficient scouts and shock troops either (being a save-loader)...

Perhaps, the wiki should tell that, providing such a weight management, you are assured to gain strength on each mission, and that at a given strength value, you are able to wear nano-armour plus a heavy weapon, and that at another given strength value, it's power armour, etc. Just to reassure the player that its game is not spoiled because he forgot to overload two soldiers during three missions.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 08:39:24 pm »
Once that you want to carry power armor, coilgun, medkit, glasses, several grenades, a plasma blade, ammo replacement packs, perhaps a secondary short range weapon like laser pistol, you certainly need every little bit of strength. Any recruit being trained for sniper or grenade launcher should have at least starting strength 38.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 06:54:33 pm »
So considering the code behind your link I would say that it works to at least cheat a higher encumberance modifier by picking up some stuff in the end of a mission.
Yes, works pretty well.
Aside from the only alien left being a spider, there's also the possibility of safely flashbanging the last organic alien every turn. Keep 2 units with plasma blades ready to kill it when running out of flashbangs. An Ortnok with medium armor can actually survive the plasma blade, so I also keep the last flashbang, just in case, you never know. Everyone else looks for positions where aliens died, picking up heavy weapons and other stuff until inventory is full. Using this exploit roughly doubles the strength gain from such a mission so it counts as two. Power armor and some of the weapons are that heavy, doesn't feel like cheating. More like balancing strength gain.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 06:56:47 pm by anonymissimus »

Offline Pharaufein

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2015, 12:02:05 am »
Yes I would not feel too guilty to do it.
However, it is silly and annyoing as hell to have to put grenade luncher ammo in your soldiers backpack and to use this exploit just to squeeze some strength out of missions.

There must be a system that gives a strength attribute some use without making it mandatory up to the point where one has to do silly including exploits to raise it.

Offline Captain Rage

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Re: Strength gain by weight
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2016, 07:18:54 am »
Why silly? I actually used this in a legitimate scenario in a few cases. Make a soldier utilize a rocket launcher, carrying only one rocket (to keep the speed boost) and make another soldier his mule (make him carry all the rockets!). You can actually get away with using two rocket soldiers while making another practice heavy lifting by overcumbering him with heavy ordnance, if you're in the mood of blowing up aliens. ;D If there only was a smoother way of handing over rockets....