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Author Topic: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?  (Read 4909 times)

Offline djogloc

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Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« on: July 20, 2015, 03:31:22 am »
So, hi. Is it possible to make UFO AI have a option in every tactical battle to be turn-base or real-time based? Would it require much work, and would this effort be worth it?

Also, I read some proposals for storyline and I have some suggestions for that too. They are a bit complicated to explain but nothing hardcore,  just some theories the PHANLAX scientists could have about the aliens (they would appear in the game as the researches do, something similiar to "Alien Strategy").

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2015, 02:39:40 pm »
Even without knowing the code, it should be clear that the missions are turn based to their heart's content. Would probably need a complete redo of that code. Not counting unit stats rebalancing or how this would work game design wise. So, no.
Why would anyone want to have that anyway. This game is not finger skills or hardware capabilities based.

Offline Noordung

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 04:35:30 pm »
That would basically be new game... but if you have time and skill you can do it.

Offline Visitor

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2015, 12:34:51 pm »
Why would anyone want to have that anyway. This game is not finger skills or hardware capabilities based.

While I can agree that it may not be worth it for UFO:AI as it'd most likely require a lot of work and restructuring certain mechanics, I can say that I am pretty sure there'd be quite some players wanting real-time with active pause option - games like X-COM: Apocalypse pulled it very well, offering certain tactical maneuvers due to simultaneous movement and coordination of several units and certain better-looking battles (without need of additional effects increasing considerably hardware demands) that turn-based gameplay doesn't allow too well.

Offline djogloc

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 06:19:43 pm »
Together with the cool armors and weapons of UFO AI too. I don't know you, but I think the X-COM Apocalypse armors and weapons are really really ugly.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2015, 06:46:11 pm »
While I can agree that it may not be worth it for UFO:AI as it'd most likely require a lot of work and restructuring certain mechanics, I can say that I am pretty sure there'd be quite some players wanting real-time with active pause option - games like X-COM: Apocalypse pulled it very well, offering certain tactical maneuvers due to simultaneous movement and coordination of several units and certain better-looking battles (without need of additional effects increasing considerably hardware demands) that turn-based gameplay doesn't allow too well.
My statement is not referring to so-called real time games with a feature-rich pause function. The UFO:AI geoscape mode is a primary example. These are de facto turn based as well.

Offline Visitor

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 02:47:36 pm »
Together with the cool armors and weapons of UFO AI too. I don't know you, but I think the X-COM Apocalypse armors and weapons are really really ugly.
Maybe, though the latter doesn't really affects my point since, like you've pointed out, in hypothetical even if unlikely scenario where UFO:AI would get real-time mode, the weapons and armor would stay the same rather that imported from X-COM: Apocalypse.

My statement is not referring to so-called real time games with a feature-rich pause function. The UFO:AI geoscape mode is a primary example. These are de facto turn based as well.
Thanks for clarification. My point touches upon those games because in the context of OPs post, that's how most of the real-time tactical squad games work - with active pause.

These are de facto turn based as well.
I would have to disagree with that claim as no one takes turns but the player uses the pause whenever to alter commands followed immediately upon unpausing by all sides and units simultaneously. But that's a side matter and slowly going off-topic.

The point I tried to make, to reiterate is that - I believe - real-time battles as done in X-Com: Apocalypse or even Fallout Tactics (a game which would be really great if not whole slew of bugs and pretty railroaded, simplistic story) would work quite well for many players of UFO:AI but at the same time it would be probably a lot of work - and it won't happen without some skilled, ambitious community member coding and sending the devteam a patch allowing such.

Offline djogloc

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 05:34:54 pm »
And the maps would need to be redone I think. The weapons in this game are powerful and most of the encounters with the enemy happens in close quarters and medium range. So, in the first seconds of combat 2 or 3 soldiers would die.

Offline Visitor

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2015, 11:25:10 pm »
And the maps would need to be redone I think. The weapons in this game are powerful and most of the encounters with the enemy happens in close quarters and medium range. So, in the first seconds of combat 2 or 3 soldiers would die.
That problem could be actually easily solved by starting each battle already paused, with units ready for commands. Or slightly adjusting spawn locations of aliens. Or even do it a 'hacky' way and simply make aliens not immediately realize and proceed to Phalanx/civilisan locations for the first few seconds. Or combination of the above.

Offline Rodmar

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Re: Real-time on UFO: AI. Is it worth the effort?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2015, 03:15:18 pm »
I don't think so, and the others said why.
Even with starting already paused and smoking the landing zone, even with adjusting the spawning locations, even with slowing down alien (AI) reactions...

  • Aliens (AI) are way too fast, skilled and powerful, until the late game when they are on par with the PHALANX.
  • The player could only pause the game before those threats that he manage to spot at time: any threat from behind/side could mean a kill (like currently when a soldier triggers a reaction fire from an unspotted alien). And if a PHALANX casualty or dead may well cause a fast player to hit the Pause key, it wouldn't ensure that the shooter was spotted. How many casualties, then, before the sniper is neutralized?
  • The LOS spotting system would be greatly affected, as the AI could "turn the head" of all its units faster than the lone player would. E.g., upon entering a room, without any strong FP view and control system, any scout would be owned by any non-surprised alien. An alien scout on top of a building could survey a large part of the map in seconds, and communicate all the sighted PHALANX's positions to any other alien.
  • Afaik, unpaused RT games merely are what's called RT strategy games for a reason. When a threat comes from an unsuspecting side (because fog of war, mist of war, camouflage, LOS, etc...) a counter attack is launched, and all of this is bloody. The winner is the last standing up. In ufoai, the team are so few, the enemy so powerful, and the veterans so valuable, that it would be like a Pyrrhic victory, at most. Better starting a Starcraft mod.

It would  be a no fun slaughter.