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Author Topic: Why is this so goddamn hard?  (Read 25181 times)

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2015, 08:28:02 am »
I have to agree with the OP as to 'why in hells name is this so hard' even on very easy mode, I loved the original games and was overjoyed whe UFO AI came out, though I wish 2.3/2.4 was still available for download because I could get to 'enjoy' it at medium difficulty level, it didn't matter that it was unfinished, I could get stuck in and ramp up the difficulty to how I wanted.
2.5 seems to have moved it's difficulty level exponentially, it feels that the AI use 'insider information' and in many cases have 'hitbot' stats, and seem to be always faster than the human troops, and some of us are not that keen on having our butts handed to us 'e v e r y  s i n g l e  t i m e' we meet someone from a different planet.

That difficulty has forced me to adopt 'Auto- mission' tactics just so I can enjoy the rest of that game, which is a shame because I really want to enjoy this... without cussin all the time!

Sounds just like some random rant, isn´t it?  If not, describing the problems in more detail would help to make the experience better.

Offline pete conway

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2015, 10:44:29 am »
My apologies for my first post to come off the back of a particularly difficult base defense mission shiplt, I didn't wish to appear to whinge at first contact but I guess my mood didn't take that into account.
Getting wasted on the 'easiest' level is not something I'm accustomed to in UFO, and right up to 2.4 this held true...

My bases are set out in the formal fashion of funnel defense into two sides 'enclosed side' 'entrances side'  and with a guy in the control room I set defense for the enclosed area, the Alien enemies start 2 on the ramp and 3 within the fenced area at the entrance, in their turn they leave and wander around outside for a dozen turns, (I just deleted some of the post... I have a thing about typing... not good at it, sorry)
after some time passing turns They ain't coming for me so I have to go to them... I watch as one wanders off into a field and sneak some Sniper, GL, and Assault, to the ramp, the Alien then trots back and one shot kills the assault guy half hidden by wall with a plasma blaster (2 buildings distance) the Alien finishes his turn by stepping out of sight, I try again with another assault guy joining them and again as soon as a head pops half out...bang, no head... I go back and try to wait it out, Aliens hit wander mode again, these were my best troops with NC-Armour my highest stats(very good and highly proficient), 40 missions (auto missions now give experience) and after hitting 'auto mission' and re-load so many times I feel that the game has changed... and not just on the field, less income than before, lower happiness than before, and (understandably) limited starting soldier stats, the money and happiness have a considerable impact on gameplay, I even restarted several times thinking that I had accidentally selected hard mode.
This is why I agree with the OP.

please understand that I am an 'old guy' that first played UFO on the Amiga500+ and have enjoyed UFO AI for some time... I'm still enjoying it now, but... I'm missing out on so much by having to play with disposable soldiers and sell ships to pacify my funders.



Offline ShipIt

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2015, 11:15:02 am »
My apologies for my first post to come off the back of a particularly difficult base defense mission shiplt, I didn't wish to appear to whinge at first contact but I guess my mood didn't take that into account.
Getting wasted on the 'easiest' level is not something I'm accustomed to in UFO, and right up to 2.4 this held true...

My bases are set out in the formal fashion of funnel defense into two sides 'enclosed side' 'entrances side'  and with a guy in the control room I set defense for the enclosed area, the Alien enemies start 2 on the ramp and 3 within the fenced area at the entrance, in their turn they leave and wander around outside for a dozen turns, (I just deleted some of the post... I have a thing about typing... not good at it, sorry)
after some time passing turns They ain't coming for me so I have to go to them... I watch as one wanders off into a field and sneak some Sniper, GL, and Assault, to the ramp, the Alien then trots back and one shot kills the assault guy half hidden by wall with a plasma blaster (2 buildings distance) the Alien finishes his turn by stepping out of sight, I try again with another assault guy joining them and again as soon as a head pops half out...bang, no head... I go back and try to wait it out, Aliens hit wander mode again, these were my best troops with NC-Armour my highest stats(very good and highly proficient), 40 missions (auto missions now give experience) and after hitting 'auto mission' and re-load so many times I feel that the game has changed... and not just on the field, less income than before, lower happiness than before, and (understandably) limited starting soldier stats, the money and happiness have a considerable impact on gameplay, I even restarted several times thinking that I had accidentally selected hard mode.
This is why I agree with the OP.

please understand that I am an 'old guy' that first played UFO on the Amiga500+ and have enjoyed UFO AI for some time... I'm still enjoying it now, but... I'm missing out on so much by having to play with disposable soldiers and sell ships to pacify my funders.

First, the problem you describe is similar to what I feel about the base defence missions. Aliens cannot be trapped because they wont come in, going up the ramp is suicidal. My solution is to go up through the dropship hangar. This way is save because of the cameras placed there. Once I am there, my snipers most of the time can clear the area without problems.

Further, some of the things you dislike can easily be changed. You can mod the amount of money to start with, the stats of your recruits, the stats of the aliens and a lot of other things with a simple text editor. This is not cheating.

Finally, I am an 'old guy' too. In 2.4, I played with a single squad from the beginning ´till the end. Lots of our players did the same and found this to be fun. I think, 2.5 and 2.6 are way more challenging and thus much better. Oc not everything is perfectly balanced.

Offline pete conway

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2015, 12:06:56 pm »
Thanks for the reply Shiplt, that base defense was averted by multiple reloads and managing to shoot the corruptor down using base defense lasers, SAM missile suite, and two Dragons, however at the time I could not get into the dropship hanger as it had 2 hovernets, 2sheevers and a taman wandering around in it... and I would have to pass the entry ramp to get to it... at some point during that playthrough an Alien (from outside the fence) dropped a grenade down the ramp landing exactly between two of my troops...

I am interested in massaging things through the text editor to help on certain points... though what they would be as yet I have absolutely no idea,
If you could perhaps just point me in the right direction to the editor bit I'll try to figure something not too drastic out.
Funny, I used to see the end of the month as a good thing allowing me to invest a couple of bucks in a new base or whatever, now... I dread it as I know I'm gonna drop $150k and thats after 'trimming' my engineers and scientists. lol

Pete.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2015, 04:34:13 pm »
I actually would recommend to start playing UFO:AI by using 2.4 first, before trying 2.5, as the difficulty increase between 2.4 on very hard and 2.5 on very easy is much greater than the one between 2.5 on very easy and 2.5 on very hard. This is all due to the ai changes.

Pete, I consider base defenses to belong to the most easiest missions in 2.5 due to the cameras and the fact that no civilians that you would have to protect are present. If they pop out, kill you, and move back you did not approach them in a safe way. Many of them have pretty ridiculous movement points, you need to count how far they can act and stay out of reach otherwise. This results in a long playing time, if you want to finish a base defense in just 1 or 2 hours that won't work. Watch them move with the cameras, safely shoot them through walls with sniper weapons, safely wait until someone has died from bleeding. If an alien is near enough to attack he will do it, because he knows that you are there at the start of his turn without seeing you. That's the ai cheat. However, it is also eploitable by positioning expendable units for the ai to attack, causing them to stand at unsafe positions after their attack so they can be killed. 8) There are often enough troops to allow loosing one (expendable) soldier per alien. You can move up out of some entrance only if no aliens are near enough that entrance so that they might be able to shoot at that troops. Then when an alien happens to be positioned in your line of fire, you pop out, shoot with something like a laser, and move back. Then basically wait for death by bleeding if not dead yet. Repeat till the last alien.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 04:38:03 pm by anonymissimus »

Offline shevegen

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2015, 08:16:16 pm »
I also concur with the threadstarter.

It has been about 2 years since I last tried UFO-AI so I don't know what has changed.

I am also fine with the difficulty by the way.

But I was wondering, perhaps there could be intro-level style commitments.

Something like a "training area" where you can shoot with a paint ball against other team members. Hmm perhaps not a good idea...

Or perhaps one could hire some special actors that have a good AI but work stand-alone and can help the team. Not too many, just
one or two to help out.

Offline TBeholder

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2015, 11:01:45 am »
Skirmish is hard because soldiers are equipped randomly, given a weapon even if they suck at this category.
The early game missions are not too hard, though tricky, and how much civilians it's possible to save is a matter of pure luck.
At least, your grunts can shoot straight (especially compared to original X-Com), and while AR snapshots are weak, MG pours a lot and is deadly enough.
So pack MG or two (if you go in two teams). Have a machinegunner (in crouch +RF) covering a long passage, this works well if they can't pop up on top of him.
Always pack at least one GL - indirect fire capability is priceless, especially when an enemy spawns on the roof where it's hard to hit them with anything else. As a bonus, close hits of HE shells occasionally knock out even if they don't kill. Incendiary grenades are fairly lame, but if it can soften up an enemy before it runs into your RF, that's something.
Also, if your scout runs into an alien face-to-face, it's time for indirect fire - get someone else hurl a grenade over a hovel rather than trying to duke it out head-on.
Flamethrowers are awesome, but very circumstantial - short-range and you can't carry anything else. If you get melee-range encounters no matter what, use it with RF all the time and don't bother with trying to rambo anything that doesn't walk into range; otherwise, ditch it until you get the hang of controlling engagement range.
Conversely, a shotgun with slugs is not quite as deadly, but still has good damage, but also decent range and weight allowance for a few grenades, consider giving it to 1-2 point scouts.
Smoke grenades are must-have, both to cover your own ass and to save civilians.
Try to have a fire contact at a longer range - where it's too far for plasma grenades, for plasma pistols it's technically in range, but they'll fire "in that general direction", especially in burst, which is what's going to happen - a rare single hit hurts like hell, but won't kill an armored soldier. And when they shoot in your general direction, they aren't busy massacring civilians instead.
With RF, potshots actually fired are better than uber-bursts that will never come, so select cheap modes - at least you can reduce the enemy's accuracy or soften them up for your turn and if 2 of them RF, they may actually score a kill like this; at very least, soldiers get some practice.
Research laser rifles - the best for long-range sniping; maybe coilguns for medium range sniping / instakill through cover; body armor when available.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2015, 07:54:01 pm »
Quote
rare single hit hurts like hell, but won't kill an armored soldier.
Not true on very hard in 2.6. Thanks to the difficulty scaling. Simply put - if you're hit, you're dead. No matter that you're not wounded previously, have armor and what not.
It happened for me when bleeding still happened at the beginning of a sides's turn though. Now the chance to survive is a little higher, if you heal immediately.

Offline TBeholder

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2015, 03:12:13 pm »
Not true on very hard in 2.6. Thanks to the difficulty scaling. Simply put - if you're hit, you're dead.
Okay, but "on very hard" it's not "how to survive here at all?" beginner mode.  ;)

Offline DarkRain

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2015, 07:15:06 pm »
Well, I guess he is comparing it to the old times when battlescape on very hard wasn't any harder at all, and in fact some people would tell you to play on Very Hard to have an easier game, yes your read that right, go figure...

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2015, 03:58:32 pm »
That's true, very hard was at least easier than very easy. That's because aliens advance faster, granting you better objects grabbed from the battle field earlier, so you get much more money and the ability to research the important things earlier (such as nanocomp armor, lasers, EM rifle). This doesn't take into account the new multiplied wages for high rank soldiers though.

Offline Talos

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2015, 11:52:52 pm »
I feel a bit the same as the maker of the thread.
I am playing on the easiest difficulty and I always  get my ass raped by aliens on regular missions, always losing 2-3 soldiers min.
My complain here is that smoke grenades seem useless since I used them as cover to protect from shevaars (are they called like that?) and they fire from a long distance always and magically always hit and kill even one of my armored guys.
It becomes frustrating since I almost can't do anything sice the aliens are better than me in every aspect, speed, accuracy etc, and smoke doesnt seem to affect them. In the few missions I tried they appeared in groups, a group of 2, and another one inside a building could manage to kill another one of my sooldiers from far away.

Too man enemies that are also strong, fast and have a lot of health for my weapons. I barely discovered plasma rifles but despite that I need like 2 hits to kill one alien. I try to use fire reaction but they always win in speed and power.
In my opinion it is too hard at least on the easiest difficulty it shouldn't be that frustrating. I prefer not any of my soldiers to die since if one of them dies the previous experience gained is in vane. I prefer them to stay alive and become better soldiers, but it is too difficult not to get kicked in the ass.

Offline MonkeyHead

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2015, 10:23:50 am »
I think an important thing to realise is that losing one or two soldiers per mission is part of the game philosophy. You are fighting a war against a much superior enemy, after all.

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2015, 02:00:11 pm »
I think an important thing to realise is that losing one or two soldiers per mission is part of the game philosophy. You are fighting a war against a much superior enemy, after all.

Well said, imo.


@Talos
What version are you playing?




Offline Talos

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Re: Why is this so goddamn hard?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2015, 03:24:24 pm »
Well said, imo.


@Talos
What version are you playing?
I'm playing 2.5