project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Flashbang tactics  (Read 17191 times)

Offline anonymissimus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 04:07:03 pm »
Here's another info bit, I don't think it's very useful (and probably you already know) but... the AI only enables RF at the start of battle, flashbangs disable RF, so if a flashed alien somehow manages to survive the two turns or you using it as target practice, it won't RF anymore...
Of course it still can move and fire normally on the alien turn, and has the TU that would have been reserved for RF available to do so, so you really are better killing it while dazed
Just that I get this right - a flashbang disables RF not only for the current and the following turn, but all following ones, basically ?

Offline MonkeyHead

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2014, 11:11:03 pm »
BTW for those playing on master: I just made some changes that will make a hurt sound play for anyone hit by splash damage (like the ones played when being hit by a direct shot) including successfully flashbanged units, feedback welcome on this regard

Ideally, a status icon showing a unit to be suffering from the effects of a flashbang would be nice - like how a unit has that spirally symbol when stunned. The audio cue sounds like a great idea though, not just for flashbangs but for all explosive weapons.

Offline anonymissimus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2014, 01:57:15 am »
The audio cue sounds like a great idea though, not just for flashbangs but for all explosive weapons.
I wonder whether it can be heard at all though, since flashbangs, grenades, plasmablaster ball and such cause a sound anyway when they explode. Should often be louder than the get hit sound, for instance,  for flashbangs.

Offline DarkRain

  • Project Coder
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2014, 05:01:58 am »
Just that I get this right - a flashbang disables RF not only for the current and the following turn, but all following ones, basically ?
Yes, that's correct, its basically the same effect as turning RF off in your soldiers, but the AI never turns it on again... mmmm I guess that if the alien becomes shaken afterwards it would enable RF again....

Ideally, a status icon showing a unit to be suffering from the effects of a flashbang would be nice - like how a unit has that spirally symbol when stunned.
Unfortunately a) I am not good at creating art assets and b) I have no idea how such an icon would look like

I wonder whether it can be heard at all though, since flashbangs, grenades, plasmablaster ball and such cause a sound anyway when they explode. Should often be louder than the get hit sound, for instance,  for flashbangs.
It's also my fear that the sound will be drowned, specially for things like rockets, I did ask for feedback after all.... on the other hand, we play such sounds for firearms and IMO some guns are louder than the flashbang (In-game at least)

Offline Daikataro

  • Cannon Fodder
  • **
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2014, 05:22:35 pm »
In my experience, flashbangs are about as useful as a pee-filled balloon. I have seen them work as intended exactly twice, and that because they blew up right in front of an ortnok, as in, point-blank range; other than that, they have done little else than annoy whatever I throw them at, and that's when they don't just get a "return to sender" courtesy of the soldiers' poor aiming with throwables in general.

IMHO flashbangs need a complete overhaul to be an actually viable weapon because, as they are now, there is no real reason to use them instead of the later-plentiful plasmas or the plain, old frags. Concretely I see they need:

-First of all, make them actually work.
-Larger effective radius, with diminishing returns past point-blank range (for example, past 5 tiles units lose 5 TUs less per tile away from the explosion).
-In later game stages, add a research that projects an EMP from the grenade, so it affects robotic units. If testing deems it too overpowered, make it two separate grenades, one flash, one EMP.

As they are now, flashbangs are just a notch above picking a rock off the ground and throwing it at the aliens.

Offline anonymissimus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2014, 09:20:47 pm »
Much more important, make them work against Sheevar. If they should work then that's a severe bug.
It's okay that they don't work against robotic aliens, since these are less dangerous in other ways: They don't use grenades or plasma blades, so you can count on a certain amount of time units spent for your reaction fire. 12 TUs shot of plasma rifle or laser rifle is usually enough to kill combat hovernets.

Offline MonkeyHead

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2014, 05:41:03 pm »
Much more important, make them work against Sheevar. If they should work then that's a severe bug.
It's okay that they don't work against robotic aliens, since these are less dangerous in other ways: They don't use grenades or plasma blades, so you can count on a certain amount of time units spent for your reaction fire. 12 TUs shot of plasma rifle or laser rifle is usually enough to kill combat hovernets.

Also, I have NEVER seen reaction fire from a Hovernet, making flashbang use on them less of an issue.

Offline Daikataro

  • Cannon Fodder
  • **
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2014, 07:17:59 pm »
Also, I have NEVER seen reaction fire from a Hovernet, making flashbang use on them less of an issue.

I have, it's just that it seems the AI is fond of using them more as scouts than as actual combatants, despite their fierce capabilities. However, when enemy starts running low on numbers, hovernets will often hide and use RF.

Offline anonymissimus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2014, 10:03:50 pm »
I have, it's just that it seems the AI is fond of using them more as scouts than as actual combatants, despite their fierce capabilities. However, when enemy starts running low on numbers, hovernets will often hide and use RF.
I'm sure you are mistaken. I also have never seen them reaction fire, and I am enforcing it even, if I may say so, since I use this property to shoot at them without protecting from reaction fire. It also makes sense for them to not reaction fire, since there is no way to see into which direction they are looking. Maybe they have 360° vision even ? So it would be mean if they could reaction fire. Units with a cone of vision can be safely shot into their back or from the side (organic aliens).
EDIT
Of course, the easiest thing to do would be to play as Sheevar and have flashbangs thrown at me, but the AI was reluctant to do that. Lobbing them at my own alien troops did nothing, unsurprisingly.
idea: shouldn't you be able to launch UFO:Ai twice and play as 2 human players against yourself ? (This works with other games. It can be using an official server or just a local server or peer to peer.)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 10:15:00 pm by anonymissimus »

Offline Noordung

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2014, 12:02:35 am »
in 2.5 there is vision map. you can see them where are they looking at.

Offline anonymissimus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2014, 01:22:15 am »
in 2.5 there is vision map. you can see them where are they looking at.
How do you access that ?

Offline DarkRain

  • Project Coder
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2014, 01:23:33 am »
Well, I just tested the 2.5 branch and found flashbangs working fine (despite the fact that the way they interact with alien's field of view still bugs me...) in one of my tests I was even able to pin in place a taman and a shevaar for 14 turns —after killing all other enemies— until i ran out of flashbangs —only one flashbang 'missed' thanks to 'roll' mode's awful accuracy— I used a single flashbang per turn despite there being three tiles between both aliens (they both were facing north, and not looking towards each other, if you were wondering)

Also I've never ever seen RF from hovernets (or bloodspider) but I know their weapons are RF enabled... don't know what might be the reason...
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 01:25:19 am by DarkRain »

Offline Noordung

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2014, 11:07:52 am »
How do you access that ?
sorry might be 2.6
there is icon similar to radar screen where map and other icons are. top right screen.

Offline Wolls

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2014, 12:12:33 am »
The Radar screen is mapped to 'r' .. It was there in earlier versions.. I think it's the same??

It doesn't orient itself to you, so it is sorta '.. wait what direction is it looking?'.. but once you get used to it, it will show the direction and field of view of the enemy in regards to your units.

Offline Wolls

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: Flashbang tactics
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2014, 03:19:02 am »
Quote
Just that I get this right - a flashbang disables RF not only for the current and the following turn, but all following ones, basically ?

Quote
Yes, that's correct, its basically the same effect as turning RF off in your soldiers, but the AI never turns it on again... mmmm I guess that if the alien becomes shaken afterwards it would enable RF again....

Does that mean they SPEND that TU or just set it aside 'as if' RF was optioned?  My impression is that it seems like the math assumes RF is enabled for all parties so it 'holds' and thus wastes that TU?  Presuming you have RF engaged?

I will of course honorably treat this information with the most respectable of conditions.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 03:21:10 am by Wolls »