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Offline Seerorin

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Money trouble
« on: August 18, 2014, 07:10:38 pm »
I'm just reached the point in the game when I could need a lot of equipment. Nano armors, laser weapons, dragons. I had two bases. So I tought I could build my second base witch had just two interceptor hangars and minimal reqruired things for operation into a equipment build base. I had 300k at start. I got myself into the job. Built 4 workshops. Running them is ok, but I need to build more bases cause I need radar cover and get somer of their ships even down... Even if only when they try to get my firebird. Also I can't build more alien sites... Wich I also could need... So I ask you how to get more money? I sell all alien things what I don't need. Won every mission. Took apart 10 ufos. Still no luck... -.- There are not enough missions for me to take even if there could be my man can't heal. Newbies sent out wouldn't be really effective(low stats... most of them below 25 acc and weap skill so don't wanna send them against armored enemy...). Will it be better later on with money or it's just get even worth. Cause I see I need more money as game progresses but I get less. I would need a second team but I can't get proper soldiers for that team. Losing a mission is now game over. So what are you guys do to get your economy started? Cause it's starting to get fustrating. I can't afford even to see where those things lands...

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 07:51:49 pm »
-At the last day of a month, at 23:59, unhire all employees, rehire them a second afterwards. That saves you the complete wages.
(I wonder how many players are doing that ...? Can the game be won without it ?)
-Win missions with civilians surviving, then nations will pay more. Watch the funding statistics. If you get less money, too many died.
-Disassemble UFOs and sell the parts. Selling the parts of an UFO gives much more money than selling it directly. The more % the UFO has, the better it is to disassemble it. The ones with less than 50% should be sold, to the nation which is most unhappy. You will have to research UFO theory and the UFO itself before it can be disassembled. Previously to that, it doesn't make sense to produce anything or to build workshops, as producing something costs you its price anyway.
-Play as many missions as possible. If there might be a chance an UFO drops into the sea, take it down elsewhere.
-Build bases so that you cover a maximum of population so that you spot more missions. For instance, UA pays the most. South America, Europa and China are next best. Siberia and Antarctica are useless. Oceania is hard to cover. I have the first in Europa, as it's roughly in the middle of the Earth's land mass. Second one in UA, logically.
-Ammunition for assault rifle, sniper rifle and machine gun are very cheap.
-Win missions without aliens getting a chance to shoot, so that they cannot consume "your" ammunition.
-Replace shiva *and* rocket aircraft weapons with particle beams and/or lasers, so that you don't need to buy ammunition for taking down UFOs. Those rockets are pretty expensive.
-Play on harder levels, because aliens will move to more valuable equipment sooner.

That's about what I can think of.

Offline geever

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 09:37:47 pm »
-At the last day of a month, at 23:59

Please don't suggest people to cheat. It's your way, a pretty bad one IMHO. Other people might honor the challenge they're faced with.

-geever

Offline Seerorin

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 09:52:06 pm »
I don't want to cheat... I have took 10 ufos exactly intact... Only shot one over a see. I can't kill ufo fighters with a stiletto even with double particle cannon+laser+alien electronic warfare suit+alien armor. So I don't really tried to shoot ufos down. Craft too expensive. I have two bases one in europe one in america. As said I started to build more workshop in america cause I needed the capacity of it to make new equipment. I need it fast... Can't buy it. Plasma rifles and combat armor not really helping me out... -.- I built a few clips for plasma weapons when I did the full team transition but only 30 pieces. So ammo not really a trouble. Anymore but will be cause I have to transition to laser for better accuracy. Also nanocomposit armor is a must. Cause without that I'm dead meat in harvester missions with armored tamans...

Offline Noordung

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 11:07:43 pm »
i think you need smoke granades. dont rush in to new weapons. smoke granades are excelent protections. and they are cheap. disasemble ufos, sell parts, sell extra plasma weapons and ammo. sell all but one ufo armours. you dont really need 4 workshops so early in game.

never had any finacial problems in game...

as soon i had particle weapons for aircraft i started using saracen. no problem with scout/fighter. for harvester... dragon/sam site/wait till it lands.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 11:27:51 pm »
Please don't suggest people to cheat. It's your way, a pretty bad one IMHO. Other people might honor the challenge they're faced with.

-geever
The fact that this is likely just because of the difficulty to implement it in another way doesn't make it a cheat. (Something else the game allows however is cheating IMO, namely retrying a mission or lost mission.) Well if I don't do that, how would I pay the wages for all the soldiers I need to put into 4+ bases to defend them in case of a surprise attack, and still be able to expand ? With wages for soldiers, workers, pilots and scientists maintenance costs are larger than the maximum funding by nations.
Quote
I can't kill ufo fighters with a stiletto even with double particle cannon+laser+alien electronic warfare suit+alien armor.
I have 2 warefare suits (do they stack ?) and no armor...the stiletto gets pretty damaged, but it's a sure thing against fighters. Harvesters and bigger are too tough. It worked even with 3 lasers IIRC. With only shiva and missiles the stiletto looses. Also, you can lure them into firing range of ground-based weapons.

One point to add to my previous post:
-Build buildings at the right moment, so that they finish right after a new month has begun. It's usable for almost a month without the maintenance costs then.

Offline Sarin

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 11:59:11 pm »
Sometimes I think the game is way too hard without a bit of abuse. Whether hire/fire cost avoidance, smoke grenade spam, or in my case, restarting the mission when losing a soldier.

Anyway. I disagree about keeping all UFOs for disassembly. Your workshops will run pretty much 24/7 anyway, and it's better to sell the shot down UFOs right away, instead of having to build extra workshops and UFO yards to keep up with the flood of UFOs. Besides, selling UFOs right away to some nation adds to its happiness, and more happiness means more funding. You can even sort the nations by happiness in UFO sell window. Just keep the landed ones and first of new type for research.

About bases...I run four. Main base near coast of southwest Anatolia, this covers (with advanced radar) whole Europe, part of India and most of Africa. Second is pure workshop next to it that also provides some SAM defenses, no radar there. Third is in North America (would have to look but I think I build it somewhere in Florida). Fourth is...Borneo or somewhere there, that covers area from India to Australia and south Asia. With radar bases at Siberia, South Africa and Argentina, I've got most of populated areas covered at reasonable expenses.

Money management is big part of the game. You have to think really hard about what you need. Workshops are useless except in dedicated workshop bases IMO because production is too slow. Similar for laboratories, although it's possible to build effective 2x interceptor/1x dropship/radar/research/SAM base, your main base should definitely follow that layout. Once you build advanced radar in a base, take down now useless radar facility so you don't pay for its upkeep. Don't stockpile ammo too much in advance...especially craft ammo is expensive and unless you are running out, not worth buying more as you'll be phasing it out anyway. Alien artifacts pay a lot, so think about those. Kerrblades, alien armors, plasma blasters are all useless once you research them. You'll be capturing far more plasma pistols, grenades, blades, rifles and rifle ammo than you'll ever need, you'll be phasing plasma rifles out eventually for EP assault rifles. And so on....

Offline Seerorin

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 02:11:46 am »
With smokes... Yes they are excelent... Everytime... Everywhere... I consider smoke reliancy a really annoying bug... I don't like the idea of rely only on smoke cause it's an exploit. The worst one cause if you don't use it you are set back. If you learn to use it(not mechanical skill or tactical simply remembering always putting it down) then it makes combat really unfair and disgusting. Only used smokes about 3 times. You shouldn't be able to fire out of smoke, or use it as invicibility. Aliens even close to you will never shoot you. Even from 3 metres... You can walk up to them and fire from the smoke screen if other soldier has vision of the target. This is exactly like indirect fire for every single ingame weapon. I don't like the idea of a cheat like this. Didn't saracen had better stat than stiletto... I tought stilettos are tougher larger firepower stronger. Would be nice to have more stats(HP,basic evasion, aim,).

I just collected ufos wich I didn't shot down... I sold the only one wich was damaged. But I agree. The game has to be exploited... Mostly with the mentioned spam of smoke... Also I have countries in pleasant state at least. Only one is the state neutral. Maybe if we could chose to sell ufo parts not on market but for certain countries. Or if you research a technology and you can sell it to the countries not for money bot for nation happiness that would be awesome. Or give them a few alien artifacts for the same reason. That way I could keep the lot of 100% ships what I get from landed ufos(I can't really shoot down a lot only 3 downed ufos in 3 month.). I want to stock up on alien materials. So I hope there will be some kind of implementation of this. Even maybe if I give tech to the nations they start to build their own good planes and start to down ufos? :D Would be fun if not just my little interceptors and the few ufos would be up in the air. Also why no one else has radar coverage just the phalanx. Pretty strange.

Offline MonkeyHead

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 10:39:02 am »
Smoke does have 2 downsides though - firstly, it does not last forever (which could be made even shorter to nerf it a bit), and secondly it does destroy your own line of sight, preventing reaction fire. Yes, it is easy to pop out of the smoke, and pop back in (or use a trooper already in the smoke) to shoot, so maybe a serious accuracy hit for shooting in smoke could be implemented somehow... it also causes stun damage in the dev version.

In any case, I have noticed that I still suffer casualties in smoke, mainly when an alien will path into the smoke and get a point blank kill - most noticeable with Sheevar and Plasma Blades, but early game Hovernets and Taman both do this too, but this is possibly a function of how the AI has knowledge of unit position and how it paths rather than anything else.

Offline Seerorin

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 11:34:03 am »
You just have to use smoke in other way. Also i enclosed areas. IR googles and flashbang in more useful. At least as far as it's get for me. IR goggles can see through walls. Flashbangs make any alien a dead alien. Never seen them hit after a flash in the face.

Offline anonymissimus

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2014, 03:30:20 pm »
it does destroy your own line of sight,
Can also happen that a civilian is standing right in your shooting line and you don't see. So if you suspect there could be one, use IR goggles to check.

Offline Seerorin

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2014, 03:47:44 pm »
It's easy I use them this way: I dropp it where I want to stand, or where I stand. One soldier steps just out(no reciton fire from aliens). Others shoot out of the smoke easily. It's this easy... Aliens will not shoout back into the smoke. You are simply invicible inside the smoke. So in theory the game can be beaten without improving any equipment for soldiers just bring enough smokes and patience. You can mawn anything down with time. I think most people who win use this tactic most of the game. But I don't really like the idea. Feels like cheating to me. Cause nothing tactical or mindful happening here. Just repeating the same thing over and over and over again... Wich could became really annoying. Also there could be more than just one single winning tactic.

Offline Noordung

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2014, 04:08:16 pm »
smoke granades are great for open areas. but in some maps arent so good. maps like manison where you have to go in house to hunt all aliens. its would be close to imposible to have enough smoke since map is big. lots of coridors.
but on same maps with no cover the only way to win are smoke granades.

yes game does have its problems, but you have to understand somebody have to make it better. it there is nobody to contibute nothing will change.


so i have destroyed 200 ufos, win ~ 180 missions and i have 4700000 cash. never had any money problems but i have so much cash that its a little absurde. 5 bases... we could sell alien bodies. we dont need 300 dead aliens. amybe some unviersities and goverments would like to make some tests... but than again you have less dead aliens from start when you need more cash.

maybe you could ask your donors for more cash when you are low on it. if your preformance is good. maybe sometimes they would also send you interceptor if you lost one if your preformance is good. sending you ammo, weapons...


Offline geever

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2014, 04:28:32 pm »
The fact that this is likely just because of the difficulty to implement it in another way doesn't make it a cheat. (Something else the game allows however is cheating IMO, namely retrying a mission or lost mission.)

I would be more than happy to remove the retry ability but we got too much "complains" from ppl still believe they have infinite lives so we came to a compromise with the battle will always be a bit different on each retry. Cheating on worker/scientist salary is just pitiable.

-geever

Offline Seerorin

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Re: Money trouble
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2014, 04:46:22 pm »
Yeah they could help a bit. I know if I can get started it will get easier. But it will be too late for my second squad. Even my main squad van barely cope with alien threat. Anything weaker could be suicicide run. Lost mission is ending game, so... Lategame if I would have the money I can't chose to send out more rookie squads instead of my über squad and use the survivors as my new squad. Cause If maybe I encounter something what rookies can't do. Then it's simply game over... Not really nice thing though.