project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?  (Read 24981 times)

Offline DarkRain

  • Project Coder
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2014, 12:54:23 am »
Well the AI does cheat but it does *NOT* have IR sight, at all, not shevaars not anything else (which you can be thankful for, as you might have noticed that smoke does *not* stop IR goggles... mmmmmm maybe I should give shevaars IR sight after all mwahahahaha) but any AI unit (including civilians) know whom they'll be able to see (and shoot) from any given position before even moving there (and that's the reason aliens will beeline to you — even if you are inside a smoke cloud — if they ever come in close enough)

Also they don't know the rank of your soldiers, but know their HP so they might go for the 'best' target regardless of distance (incidentally the AI also knows the exact linear distance  — but not the walking one — to any other unit, even those that they can't see or path to)

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2014, 11:49:19 am »
Hmm right now I made a bit of testin about this how they shoot at you. Yes they try to shoot for the kill. Smoke right know simply oveerpowered. Even if they don't have IR sight they should at least random fire(don't know if it can be done in the code) in to the cloud. Also that they use linear distance makes them most of the time not really able to get to your team if they can't walk into shooting position within 1-3 turns(maybe I'm not perfectly correct on this one, but seems like they can plan forward for 3 turns). If I read it correct they work as inviduals but not as a team right, and you are using simple in engine code to them. Maybe if you can cheat a little bit with coding(If I remember correctly ufo:afterlight used something like this), you can create a separeted program wich calculates movement. Only works if you can get the routing information of the game easily accessible. This way maybe you can make a better routing for them. So they will not linger at the lowest level of a building while you are killing their buddies and taking their ship on ground level.

Offline anonymissimus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2014, 03:15:41 pm »
Smoke is not overpowered or anything. The player needs 50% or more of civilians to survive or nations will get angry. There also needs to be a slight increase in nation happiness to support the growing upkeep cost. Protecting civilians from dying with smoke is a major tactics. In 2.4 I had all nations on exuberant in about August. It takes me until January in 2.5. The player needs his units to survive  and heal quickly too. With the current generally mean map setup, which most of the time favors aliens, the campaign would be impossible without smoke. In 2.6 smoke does a little damage to units without nanocomposite armor even I've heard.
It could be different if the civilians AI or spawn positions were better, or if they wouldn't die from any snapshot already, or if the player could control them, or if they got their turn before the aliens. Sometimes spawn positions are in a way that civilians are dead for sure, since an alien is so much nearer than the player.

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2014, 05:06:18 pm »
The smoke is mostly owerpowered if used correctly. Cause you can use it to not get shot, and aliens aren't so tough. I have a good sniper so I can take any tamans in early mid game who I just see. Just simply one shot him. They wear armor but it not really seems to do any good for them. My only problem is there is no direct sight lot of the times. Smoke tough can easyli save my men. Aliens don't shoot at it. Yeah sometimes Civvies dies in instant. But mostly thanks to my extreme range kill capability if I see an alien in the first round that alien is a dead alien. My concern is mostly that civilian AI not really doing anything. A freakingly large alien ship is near and they still just wandering around. I mostly just lose 2-3 civvies/mission cause I can easily take out enemies. Thinking about transition to through wall capable railgun. But dunno what in reality throughwall capability means. Maybe I will make a few videos about things like smoke and throughwall weapons after I get to know them pretty well. But only 30 dmg increase don't seem to worth it. It could if it means I can snipe from the whole map and get instant kills on sheevars. Then it could be nice. Else it's on pair with nothing... Also depends on how much accuracy improves or degrades considered to sniper rifle. Cause my sniper can hit with 66% percent when crouched from nearly map edge to map edge. If the railgun is more precise through a wall, then it's the way to go cause I if I can shoot through most walls I don't even have to move a lot just shoot them from afar... :D Sounds fun for me. :D

Offline Sarin

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2014, 12:10:43 am »
Throughwall capability is simple. It is amount of walls projectile from weapon can go. Sniper rifles and bolters have 1, coilgun 2. Every wall reduces power of projectile, and solid blocks stop any projectile (like, say, walls of ground level part of corrupter). This also works for ceilings and floors, in fact my corrupter clearing tactic (something you'll do a lot in mid-late game) is to set up long range RF around entrance with my assault troops, and use several soldiers with sniper rifles/bolters/coilguns and IR goggles to take out aliens through the floor of the UFO.

Accuracy of elite soldiers can be insane. I have, in my campaign, soldiers capable of sniping aliens on the other side of dam map...with machinegun from standing position.

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 01:51:14 am »
That is quiet some sniping. Hmm so even normal sniper can shoot through 1 wall? Also I'm now got to mid game, and realized. My early despite taking 10 intact ufos and dissembling most of them. Few of them is worked on right know. Is simply just didn't any resources to start up a secondary base/team. So I'm pretty much stuck. I have two bases. Started to pump out equipment what I need. But got into trouble with low money. I have laser weapons. So secondary could be viable. With more bases. Also in desperate need of more radar cover. But there is just simply no chance... -.-This is a pretty lame stage of the game. Maybe I drop it here and now again. Cause it's idiotistic how you get no money/missions early game, and expected to suddenly be able to transition to 2-3 missions per week after 1 mission/2 weeks. Cause you can't shoot down shit with your interceptors. Fighters simply decimates even fully equipped human interceptors. Even if equipped with their very own particle cannon. That should be a bit balanced. Considering dragons are really hard to build and really late to run out to work... Exploiting base defence system is a bad idea. Not enough bases not enough space for anything... So I don't if I could just send out rookies and call it a day... Making my good soldiers die in the process wasting money on equippinf useless goons... Don't like this concept... Also exploiting smoke is feels bad for me... There could be real tactical choices not just ok achieve laser>smoke everything exploit>ok you reach a stage where you use the same tactic again again again. Pretty annoying mostly you could only do one thing in the game exploiting certain bugs. -.-

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2014, 02:17:40 am »
Also how can I get the XAW-95, or it is not an ingame campaign weapon?

Offline ShipIt

  • Project Artist
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 906
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2014, 07:33:31 am »
Also how can I get the XAW-95, or it is not an ingame campaign weapon?

The weapon is skirmish-only. You could, however, get it working within the campaign by modding the script files.

Offline Sarin

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2014, 05:19:15 pm »
Had to go to skirmish to check that one. Looks kinda useless compared to MG. Same goes for the alternative AR...the Half-Life style shotgun looks cool though, but only for double shot.

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2014, 05:20:25 pm »
I can't even use alternate AR in skirmish. XD

Offline Sandro

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 240
  • Maintenance guy for UFO:AI 3D engine
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2014, 12:59:00 pm »
Also I'm now got to mid game, and realized. My early despite taking 10 intact ufos and dissembling most of them. Few of them is worked on right know. Is simply just didn't any resources to start up a secondary base/team. So I'm pretty much stuck. I have two bases. Started to pump out equipment what I need. But got into trouble with low money. I have laser weapons. So secondary could be viable. With more bases. Also in desperate need of more radar cover. But there is just simply no chance... -.-This is a pretty lame stage of the game. Maybe I drop it here and now again.

You will have to, since you've made a classic strategical error: spreading your forces too thin. You should have focused on the most important things, like estabishing one full-featured base in the location when it covers as much area of funding countries as possible (Balkans are the best choice IMHO), running some combat-related research (UFO technology can wait 2-3 months), and only after that you should be covering the rest of the globe with your bases.
Single exception: installing a science base with a single interceptor and 2 SAM launchers on the other side of globe can be helpful, but don't hurry to it; you will spend the first month of game using almost all available finances for the first base and it's outside installations (UFO Yard, extra radar and SAM site).

Cause it's idiotistic how you get no money/missions early game, and expected to suddenly be able to transition to 2-3 missions per week after 1 mission/2 weeks.

Methinks it is actually makes a lull for the player when he is given some time to build his infrastructure in the way he wants.

Cause you can't shoot down shit with your interceptors. Fighters simply decimates even fully equipped human interceptors.

Attack in packs, try to lure UFOs in your SAM range.

Exploiting base defence system is a bad idea.

Why? Everything is fair in times of war. Especially if it is the war against us all.

Not enough bases not enough space for anything...

The whole point of the game is repelling the alien invasion with some quite limited resources. Resource management and careful planning is what it is about, both in the geoscape and the battlescape.
Changing this will turn UFO:AI into a completely different game, and this is not in the plans af far as I know.

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2014, 11:02:24 pm »
I have my first base full. It's fully developed into a mostly research base. With just two workshops cause with one I can't do anything. I installed my second base with just an interceptor and basic things just for an interceptor nothing more. But know I have to many ufos also has to change weaponry to laser and armor to nanocomposite. So I had money to build four workshops on the second base. So I can finally start producing also want to move my ufo site there. But here came the trouble. I just simply run dry in just one month. If I don't build them. I'm simply getting owherwhelmed by the enemy... -.- Also I need a second team FOr that I could need one more base... Wich I also don't have money for... So dunno how to solve this... XD

Offline MonkeyHead

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2014, 06:53:25 pm »
I am not sure where your complaint comes from. Games are not meant to be "push button and win". If you are not winning, you are doing something wrong. Next time, do something different.

FWIW, I break ground on my second base immediately, and keep both small (one or two labs or workshops at most, 10 or so soldiers) for a few months, running 4 interceptors and 2 ground combat teams. Other than for research purposes, I sell most downed UFOs, and am quite aggressive at selling alien gear I have no immediate use for, and the products of UFO dissasembly. For around 6 months I am very short on cash as I build up my bases, focussing on production as even with 4 labs at most I can keep my research on top of my workshop orders list, and 2 bases (one in the USA, one in eastern Turkey) allows me to keep nearly everyone on the globe happy despite a high casualty rate amongst my troops using captured alien weapons. This shortage of cash continues until 12 months or so in when I can send out nanocomp armoured and laser armed squads - by then, the balance of force on the ground is in my favour and I can begin turning a profit through selling the alien weapons and build up a stock of cash from better funding. It is very easy when new to the game to allow your research to outpace your production capacity, leading you to think there must be something wrong as you have 4 or 5 newly researched things waiting to be made - reel in your research a little and add in some more production capacity. Things that have been researched are technically useless unless you can get them into combat, and often this means making them. Why rush researching things if you lack the capacity to utilize them?

TL;DR - go for smaller bases to establish more of a global presence to secure funding rather than one megabase - labs and workshops are expensive and you can do most of the early to mid game production and research with a small number of labs and a slightly greater production bias.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 06:58:01 pm by MonkeyHead »

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2014, 12:20:40 am »
My concern is that no replacement is there for soldiers. So If I go in to deal with aliens I have really hard time not cause of game difficulty problems(losing 1-2 soldiers isn't a concern if you can get good once). But in this game losing a mediom soldier who as an average skill of 40 on his main weapons is costly thing. Cause as you progress you have to carry more and more weapons and armor. But no more problems. My team can carry enough smokes. So no problem. I don't really like the idea. Spiders became a concern this way. But most aliens can be easily taken care of. So I started my transition to laser weapons. Pretty easy if you can take on two missions in one flight without losing soldiers. I'm running low on smokes tough but those are cheap considering a soldier with a 40 average worth about 50000. Cause if I bring a new soldier with armor weapons etc. It's costs about 12000 not even quarter of them survive on midgame battlefields for 10 missions wich is sufficient to get in this threshold. So the secondary team idea dropped. Soldiers are priceless. So you have to spend every possible money to make them survive. Cause other way in the endgame you will have not so good soldiers. :)

Offline anonymissimus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: 2.5 Early game builds+what effect the amount of TU's?
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2014, 12:46:44 am »
Why rush researching things if you lack the capacity to utilize them?
The earlier you research something, the earlier you can buy it. It seems. No need to prevent your workshops from doing the only thing that produces cash instead of consuming it - disassembling UFOs. Indirectly.