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Author Topic: Herakles Revised  (Read 8395 times)

Offline Anderty

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Herakles Revised
« on: October 09, 2012, 12:27:41 am »
I must say it - current design is HORRIBLE!

I know, to change that, much work must be done and it isn't easy, but still...

I'm still trying to learn, how to do things by myself, as I want tune up many assets, but can't dive in fully right now.

Here goes fast/rough design of my implementation of herakles dropship. I assume that doors will be by sides and back.

At start I wanted to give it rotor engines, as it's pretty realistic comparing x-com universe tech basis, but, though, if alien tech will be used for such craft, than alien propulsion engines will take place of advanced alien tech. If there's doubts bout such craft realism and possibility to exist for them, please read 'bout modern vtol aircrafts, especially Osprey craft, which I take as reference. It's more plane'ish, difference from my design is clear... but it's 2084, so, thought, some tech MUST advance, so - let's imagine, that blueprint was experimental before, but lack of engine power for such compact (comparing to modern VTOL airplane Osprey as design), made it frozen. Like that. So, tell me, what do you think.

Ah, and if you realy realy realy don't want to do additional work, I'll than try to learn more and implement it by myself. XD

Nokim

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 07:24:21 am »
If i understand correctly what i have seen in game - Herakles is all-human tech (doesn't need any alien material or parts). That's strange however, I research it alongside with Stingray.

Given it's a big and heavy aircraft it seems that two engines not enough - tree or even four for balancing lifting power. IIRC there are many complaints to Osprey regarding it's stability and safety. That's main reason why it's not widely used by military.

I think near future VTOL craft would be something like this (only small craft at the moment). In a bit more far future engines will be electrical powered by more advanced batteries or generator.

And i really would like ability to leave dropship in tree directions instead of only one.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 10:43:05 am »
One thing to keep in mind: ideally, I would like it if all of our dropships fit onto a 2x1 RMA tile. This would reduce the amount of wasted space we have around the dropship on maps and in many cases would help get soldiers into cover and interesting terrain more quickly.

The current Herakles is the only dropship that accomplishes this (sort of) by having a break-away drop-pod, so that the full vehicle is never seen on the battlescape. 2x1 may just be too small to pull off (ShipIt, do you have some thoughts on this?). But the smaller we can keep our dropships the better (yours looks like it could make it onto a 2x2 tile, so that could work).

On the design: I like the overall shape. To be honest, you can use more polys to round those engines add a bit more detail in the battlescape version (current poly level is good for geoscape).

Offline Anderty

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 02:19:23 pm »
If i understand correctly what i have seen in game - Herakles is all-human tech (doesn't need any alien material or parts). That's strange however, I research it alongside with Stingray.

Given it's a big and heavy aircraft it seems that two engines not enough - tree or even four for balancing lifting power. IIRC there are many complaints to Osprey regarding it's stability and safety. That's main reason why it's not widely used by military.

I think near future VTOL craft would be something like this (only small craft at the moment). In a bit more far future engines will be electrical powered by more advanced batteries or generator.

And i really would like ability to leave dropship in tree directions instead of only one.
1th - I read speculations 'bout implementing alien tech. Well, it should be considered, as false for now and I focus design toward human - tech.
2th - In 1942 To power 56.9 tonnes Tiger I, 514.8 kW was used.  To power 67.6 tonnes M1 Abrams, 1,120 kW is used. Considering geometrical progression of computing power evolution, I assume that in 2084 even one engine is too much for classic plane. Minimized heavy lifter should have more than enough to power such craft, without helping stabilizers.
3th - That design is too "sci-fi futuristic". I mean - it's clear, that designer of that craft imagined it's design by very basic classic futuristic sci-fi art. It's even little bit retro.
In my vision, x-com should use still contemporary  design, but with much more advanced tech. For better understanding: Imagine that 24 core processor units is standard component of every pc on earth. It's not sci-fi, but, still, it's futuristic.
4th - It's already like that. I mean, I planned ike that at very begin. I just don't cut interior yet.

One thing to keep in mind: ideally, I would like it if all of our dropships fit onto a 2x1 RMA tile. This would reduce the amount of wasted space we have around the dropship on maps and in many cases would help get soldiers into cover and interesting terrain more quickly.

The current Herakles is the only dropship that accomplishes this (sort of) by having a break-away drop-pod, so that the full vehicle is never seen on the battlescape. 2x1 may just be too small to pull off (ShipIt, do you have some thoughts on this?). But the smaller we can keep our drop-ships the better (yours looks like it could make it onto a 2x2 tile, so that could work).

On the design: I like the overall shape. To be honest, you can use more polys to round those engines add a bit more detail in the battlescape version (current poly level is good for geoscape).

Indeed, I designed it compact. And I don't like idea of leaving less space 'round ship, cuz, even if those are elite pilots, too close quarters is very dangerous place, to land vehicle. It's still normal, to have some space 'round, as it's more "realistic". Even future have it's rules. For cover - aircraft must be crew shield, and, as I want it design right now, it should provide some neat defence.
I don't like idea of drop-pod for many reasons: a- bad cover, b- very bad craft self-defence ability (some randomly lucky its to joints, and pod is travelling it's way to earth... don't tell me, that's lame. That is very reasonable.), c- deploy and take-off time consuming. To effectively deploy and leave territory, craft must be 'round. If it's pod, which break apart and builds again, it's definitely slow and ineffective process. And imagine, if you wan't abandon mission and try to reach safe zone. Now, imagine, that, as you, in reality, wait for pod to close, aircraft to catch it and leave territory: I assume half of your men gonna die. So, any questions, why pod is bad?

Well" just for now, I won't overdose with poly, as there will be significant add from interior and segmenting, so, for now, It should look like that. But, 'course, after I'll finish segmenting, I'll try optimize and enhance it shape.

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 03:02:27 pm »
One thing to keep in mind: ideally, I would like it if all of our dropships fit onto a 2x1 RMA tile. This would reduce the amount of wasted space we have around the dropship on maps and in many cases would help get soldiers into cover and interesting terrain more quickly.

The current Herakles is the only dropship that accomplishes this (sort of) by having a break-away drop-pod, so that the full vehicle is never seen on the battlescape. 2x1 may just be too small to pull off (ShipIt, do you have some thoughts on this?). But the smaller we can keep our dropships the better (yours looks like it could make it onto a 2x2 tile, so that could work).

It needs to be somewhat smaller than 2x2, because we will need to place it into the future 2x2 dropship hangars. Beside that, I am used to make things big, you know :).


About the pics above, to be honest, to me it looks somewhat 'ordinary' as it is right now. I mean, there´s nothing to make it look/feel unique in some way.

Offline Anderty

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 09:27:49 pm »
It needs to be somewhat smaller than 2x2, because we will need to place it into the future 2x2 dropship hangars. Beside that, I am used to make things big, you know :).


About the pics above, to be honest, to me it looks somewhat 'ordinary' as it is right now. I mean, there´s nothing to make it look/feel unique in some way.

Well, that was the point, as x-com universe is ordinary things in upgraded version. Still, I'm try'ing to thing something, though, form is still pretty neat and any more modifications will break it apart. But I have one idea, though, this week I have much work, so, currently, can't show any progress.

Offline Anderty

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 08:04:21 pm »
Finally back, after finishing some work, clearing XCOM enemy unknown 2 times (classic and normal Iron Man mode (now playing in IM classic. If interest in multilayer gaming, use steam and PM me)) and killed my laptop fan (T.T), I'm ready to finish things I started.

Here's update of progress (interior added and little more detail. Still, I won't change shape, as it gonna make too much tris, but I had one idea. I won't do it, only if heavy asked.).

I put blender file for one ting - please, tell me, if door wide is proper for 2 human beings. After that, I'll start texturing.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 04:32:36 pm »
I've made a similar looking model.


Which reminds me...have I given the mesh to you guys? You know how I disspaer from the face of the earth for a month or two occasionaly, and I keep forgetting what I did or didn't do.

Offline Anderty

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 11:49:50 pm »
Doesn't matter now ^^. I'll do more, than just mesh.

Offline Noordung

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 04:52:02 pm »
1th - I read speculations 'bout implementing alien tech. Well, it should be considered, as false for now and I focus design toward human - tech.
2th - In 1942 To power 56.9 tonnes Tiger I, 514.8 kW was used.  To power 67.6 tonnes M1 Abrams, 1,120 kW is used. Considering geometrical progression of computing power evolution, I assume that in 2084 even one engine is too much for classic plane. Minimized heavy lifter should have more than enough to power such craft, without helping stabilizers.
3th - That design is too "sci-fi futuristic". I mean - it's clear, that designer of that craft imagined it's design by very basic classic futuristic sci-fi art. It's even little bit retro.
In my vision, x-com should use still contemporary  design, but with much more advanced tech. For better understanding: Imagine that 24 core processor units is standard component of every pc on earth. It's not sci-fi, but, still, it's futuristic.
4th - It's already like that. I mean, I planned ike that at very begin. I just don't cut interior yet.

Indeed, I designed it compact. And I don't like idea of leaving less space 'round ship, cuz, even if those are elite pilots, too close quarters is very dangerous place, to land vehicle. It's still normal, to have some space 'round, as it's more "realistic". Even future have it's rules. For cover - aircraft must be crew shield, and, as I want it design right now, it should provide some neat defence.
I don't like idea of drop-pod for many reasons: a- bad cover, b- very bad craft self-defence ability (some randomly lucky its to joints, and pod is travelling it's way to earth... don't tell me, that's lame. That is very reasonable.), c- deploy and take-off time consuming. To effectively deploy and leave territory, craft must be 'round. If it's pod, which break apart and builds again, it's definitely slow and ineffective process. And imagine, if you wan't abandon mission and try to reach safe zone. Now, imagine, that, as you, in reality, wait for pod to close, aircraft to catch it and leave territory: I assume half of your men gonna die. So, any questions, why pod is bad?

Well" just for now, I won't overdose with poly, as there will be significant add from interior and segmenting, so, for now, It should look like that. But, 'course, after I'll finish segmenting, I'll try optimize and enhance it shape.
pod can have some sore of rocket engines to go lets say 100m high where plane can pick it up. its the same for landing. plane drops it from 1000 or more more meters high and pod safely lands. i think thats how the future would look like. but thats more military aircraft than simple civilian like herakles - or civilian turned to military.

Offline Noordung

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 04:55:05 pm »
Finally back, after finishing some work, clearing XCOM enemy unknown 2 times (classic and normal Iron Man mode (now playing in IM classic. If interest in multilayer gaming, use steam and PM me)) and killed my laptop fan (T.T), I'm ready to finish things I started.

Here's update of progress (interior added and little more detail. Still, I won't change shape, as it gonna make too much tris, but I had one idea. I won't do it, only if heavy asked.).

I put blender file for one ting - please, tell me, if door wide is proper for 2 human beings. After that, I'll start texturing.
i like jour model. many doors for soliders to go out quicly but still a lot of cover inside. if doors would have the ability to open and close in map this would be perfect.

Offline Noordung

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2014, 06:13:02 pm »
since we are talking about herakles.

have to add landing gear. near landing gear there should be also some hatches for VTOL engine. like thunderbird 2 ;). and cargo pod. it will be between engines.

Offline Noordung

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Re: Herakles Revised
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2014, 12:24:49 pm »
here is another version of herakles.