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Author Topic: Itemconsumption on missions.  (Read 4308 times)

Offline Ufanatic

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Itemconsumption on missions.
« on: September 24, 2013, 08:03:00 pm »
Hey guys.

After picking up my 2,5dev campaign with the latest version (just couldnt wait for final release anymore hehehe), I finally have to ask these questions:

How is the consumption of battlefield-"consumables" (i.e. grenades, reloads) calculated?
Is the item-counter in the homebase of the dropship always up to date, even if the dropship is still on its way back to base?

I have been trying to track it but just cant really wrap my head around it.
E.g. ... :
If a soldier dumps 50% of his ammo-cartridge into Aliens during the mission, will he use up a whole cartridge?
If a soldier reloads once (and thus definitely uses a cartridge), will this be shown in the base-buy/sell-menu right after the mission even if the ship is still on its way back?
If my crew is on its way to a mission and I decide to sell all my grenades in the homebase, will they be stuck without any grenades?

It gets especially complicated when you do two missions in a row with the same dropship. Funny enough, even if the soldiers have used items, their original loadout will still be 100% present at the beginning of the 2nd mission.
How is this handled?


While I am at it, I might as well ask a similar set of questions concerning xp-gain:
Is this immediate, meaning in the very moment of action during a mission? Or does xp-gain set in when the mission is over? Or when the crew has returned to base? ...
And also: Are xp-points and kills from the two missions added up or is it just the last mission that contributes to the xp-gain?

Thanks in advance for any answers.



« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 08:05:41 pm by Ufanatic »

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Itemconsumption on missions.
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 10:39:11 pm »
I can only answer the last one. Soldiers gain xp at the end of a mission. You can see any rank gains in the geoscape log. Therefore, multiple missions in a ssingle trip will all count.

Offline jcjordan

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Re: Itemconsumption on missions.
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 11:30:33 pm »
I can say from my experience that on ammo usage, there's a couple of things that happen. I can say that yes sometimes when you partially use a magazine, when you get back to base you've lost a whole ie say before you've got 20 clips at base then go on a mission & only shoot one bullet, you might find that you then have 19 other times you will still have 20. I assume there might be some kind of random roll of the die to see if you lose one or not. You will only see these changes once the transport has landed back at the base not before.

As to selling everything while on a mission, I've never done that so can't say but you can always experiment to see what happens since we're all beta testers of the program in a sense. I would think logically it should work that you could only sell that which is left over from what is on the mission.

One thing I noticed in 2.4dev IIRC when doing multiple missions before returning is that weapons would move around to other soldiers instead of staying as I set them. Not sure if this behavior is still in 2.5dev as I don't do things that way as missions seem to be more spread out rather than having numerous multiple missions in same area.

Offline Ufanatic

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Re: Itemconsumption on missions.
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 11:53:45 pm »

I can only answer the last one. Soldiers gain xp at the end of a mission. You can see any rank gains in the geoscape log. Therefore, multiple missions in a ssingle trip will all count.
Ah yeah. You're right ... the rankups show immediately in the geoscape-log. Thanks.

... only shoot one bullet, you might find that you then have 19 other times you will still have 20. ...
Exactly the type of randomness I am talking about.
About selling everything while on a mission: Will try that next time I am on the hunt.  ;)

Offline DarkRain

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Re: Itemconsumption on missions.
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2013, 04:57:39 am »
From what I remember (form having worked with that part of the code in the past):

Actually you don't lose partially used magazines, any remaining shots are stored as 'loose ammo' in the base, that's the reason sometimes you seem to 'lose' partially used clips and sometimes you seem to keep them, if after the mission the number of 'loose shots' is enough to complete the magazine then the game does so (it might even seem to "merge" partially used clips to form whole ones), if there isn't enough 'loose ammo' to form a full magazine, then the partially used clips are removed, but the remaining shots are stored and lie in wait, till there's enough to complete one (or more) clips

AFAIR the above applies also when you reload during the mission, if the replaced magazine had any remaining shots they are stored, and the game tries to form complete clips back at the base

Finally, the game updates the whole base inventory at the beginning of a mission, that's the reason the soldiers are restocked if you do several missions in a row (as long as there's still enough ammo at the base), that is a known bug, and AFAIR that should indeed cause your soldiers to lose all their ammo if you for some reason sell all your ammo while they are mid flight, but do share the result of your experiments if you actually test it

Offline Ufanatic

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Re: Itemconsumption on missions.
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 12:07:49 pm »

Wow. Comprehensive. Thanks.

Individual round-count is really much more accurate than I had expected. It's good to know that my Elite-troop knows the value of those hightech-rounds and collects them in a cardboard-box in the storage room. ;)


AFAIR the above applies also when you reload during the mission, if the replaced magazine had any remaining shots they are stored, and the game tries to form complete clips back at the base.
Also interesting. How many times have I not reloaded before attempting a charge because I just didn't want to waste those ~500creds half a magazine would cost. I know it's greedy, but Phalanx can't afford generosity.


Finally, the game updates the whole base inventory at the beginning of a mission, that's the reason the soldiers are restocked if you do several missions in a row (as long as there's still enough ammo at the base), that is a known bug
I don't think this should be a bug at all. It makes perfect common sense.
It goes without saying that a human being has a limit as to how much he can carry. It therefore makes sense, that you can't load your soldiers with infinite rounds for a single mission.
The dropship however, is a heavy lifting piece of hightech equipment capable of circling the entire globe on one fuel tank. For the purpose of killing aliens it is your soldiers base by extension. Now fitting backup-guns into the dropship would be thinkable but perhaps a little crowded still. However, concerning small consumable items such as ammo, grenades and medpacks ... I think phalanx would be smart and capable enough to have a couple crates of refills in the dropship and have those soldiers combat-ready at all times.
 
From a balancing standpoint, I am admittedly a little undecided.
It could be cool having to evaluate how you outfit your team: Whether to go for secondary weapons and medpacks for everyone or alternatively for more rounds so they could easily complete a second mission. But it could also just be a pain in the butt having to bother with it, having to go back to base and relaunch numerous times and so forth.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 12:13:13 pm by Ufanatic »

Offline DarkRain

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Re: Itemconsumption on missions.
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 06:35:09 pm »
I don't think this should be a bug at all. It makes perfect common sense.
I disagree, as it is now, it allows you to go on an unlimited amount of missions (as long as the fuel holds) without having to restock, theoretically you can even buy more ammo at the base while the dropship is mid flight, and that will be used to restock your soldiers for the next mission

Actually, it is planned to give dropships their own storage space, so that you can pack spare ammo and backup weapons as you see fit (the idea is that you can even change your soldier's gear according to the mission if you choose so), that should allow to go on several missions on a row, but without exploits like the above one.

Offline Ufanatic

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Re: Itemconsumption on missions.
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 05:24:16 pm »

If a storage-system for dropships is planned anyways such "exploits" wouldn't be necessary.

That is even better.