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Author Topic: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev  (Read 12351 times)

Offline H-Hour

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Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« on: August 08, 2013, 12:10:33 pm »
As part of our ongoing efforts to rebalance the campaign for 2.5, I've just pushed some changes to how soldier experience points are gained and how stat growth is calculated for these experience points.

These changes may be disruptive to ongoing campaigns.

Updating your copy of the game to after these changes will apply the new stat calculations to your soldiers, who have accumulated experience points under the old system. As a result, your soldiers will likely become much more powerful after their first combat mission. Using my own late-game save as a test, I found the following stats saw dramatic changes:

  • Strength: your soldiers will become very strong.
  • Mind: your soldiers' mind stat will become very high. You'll probably see sudden jumps in rank.
  • Accuracy and weapon skills: these will jump and, if you're late in the game, can even reach the max 100.

The rate of growth for stats has been adjusted, along with the number of UFOs you are likely to face, so new games should not have these balancing problems. If you're early in your 2.5-dev campaign, the effect should be minor and I would suggest updating and continuing to play.

Further refinements are in the pipeline with regards to how accuracy and speed are calculated, but these should not prove as disruptive. The accuracy calculations have now been adjusted so that high stats have more impact on improved accuracy.

You can read the rationale and data behind these changes in the proposal in our wiki.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 06:55:32 pm by H-Hour »

Offline Telok

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2013, 12:27:48 pm »
I have some feedback for you. I scrapped my last game (a bugged bomber mission was tanking my world happiness rating) and recompiled. This is from playing on the Hard setting, the format is

Role, Strength, Speed, Accuracy, Mind, CC, AS, SN, EX, Health, Kills.

Code: [Select]
Rol  St  Sp  Ac  Mi  CC  AS  SN  EX  Hp  Kill

team 1 @ 10 missions (July 9th, 2084)
1sn  45  33  49  50  29  24  51  17  114  08
2as  50  37  42  50  21  49  22  27  109  05
3ex  54  30  38  44  35  23  28  49  110  06
4sn  40  38  41  46  28  21  44  34  118  06
5ex  50  29  32  52  25  23  34  45  118  06
6sn  53  33  42  48  32  27  50  29  122  09
7ex  53  33  39  40  18  26  25  45  109  07

team 1 @ 20 missions (August 15th, 2084)
1sn  48  37  56  60  29  24  66  22  123  18
2as  53  40  49  62  21  67  22  29  120  15
3ex  57  34  43  51  35  23  28  61  117  11
4sn  44  42  48  53  28  21  59  34  128  11
5ex  53  33  36  60  25  23  34  54  124  11
6sn  55  37  49  57  32  27  64  31  132  18
7ex  56  36  43  47  18  26  25  55  116  11

team 2 @ 5 missions (July 9, 2084)
1as  35  20  35  41  22  44  21  22  119  05
2sn  39  23  30  43  17  21  37  16  108  03
3sn  44  21  35  33  20  20  42  15  115  04
4sn  39  30  32  45  24  17  42  17  115  04
5ex  44  25  28  32  24  20  21  31  112  02
6ex  43  29  35  39  16  16  19  40  119  05
7ex  44  25  34  33  21  23  23  38  116  03

team 2 @ 11 missions (August 15th, 2084)
1as  38  24  41  49  22  56  21  22  126  11
2sn  42  27  36  52  17  21  49  16  115  10
3sn  47  25  39  39  25  20  49  15  120  08
4sn  42  34  38  51  24  17  52  25  112  08
5ex  47  29  34  10  24  20  21  46  120  06
6ex  KIA
7ex  47  28  41  40  21  23  23  56  125  07

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2013, 05:32:42 pm »
Thank you Telok. Can you please remember to check back in again with some numbers at 30 and 40 missions?

Offline Telok

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2013, 01:56:47 am »
Beta tester a go-go!

Offline heisenbug

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 10:26:21 pm »
Here you are the stats of my soldiers, at August 5th.

In contrast with Telok I'm using at the moment a single team on the first base, with rotation of the wounded soldiers. So, the number of missions performed is reported for each of them.
I'm literally in love with my Senior Warrant Officer. She likes to move in the battlefield without armor, and can perform two aimed shots in a single turn with 70%-90% accuracy at medium distance! Also the increased mobility of the close-quarter gunners is awesome, and the possibility of the assault solders to do a full auto, move and keep a snap shot for reaction fire.

Code: [Select]
Date: 2048 Ago 05

Alien interest: 157
Missions:       23

Soldier            Missions Kills Rank                   Str Spd Acc Mnd Cls Ass Snp Exp HP
------------------ -------- ----- ---------------------- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Badieh Martin      22       20    Senior Warrant Officer 42  41  53  57  21  19  54  27  127
Tyler Valdez       19       17    Warrant Officer        43  30  40  60  25  16  17  61  124
Giulio Al Ghadban  22       15    Warrant Officer        43  34  40  55  20  63  18  18  125
Tiago Dubey        23       10    Corporal               45  37  38  46  53  19  16  21  125
Goncalo Avitabile  17       9     Corporal               43  34  40  46  21  21  48  18  121
Mikhail Finet      12       8     Corporal               40  33  35  47  20  53  24  19  115
Christophe Mohanta 15       7     Corporal               44  36  32  49  17  43  15  24  122
Emil Herring       11       6     Lance-Corporal         42  33  36  44  20  47  22  18  113
Stephane Coelho    3        5     Lance-Corporal         34  30  33  33  20  40  20  16  109
Luis Nakamura      22       4     Lance-Corporal         45  35  27  42  37  15  15  22  120
Thierry Herring    4        3     Lance-Corporal         41  31  36  32  19  22  16  45  110
Teresa Campos      12       2     Rifleman               42  27  30  38  31  24  21  19  110
Xavier Heikkinen   3        1     Rifleman               40  28  30  32  21  24  23  15  112

On the bad side, with this change the green bars used to represent the experience can very easily overlap with the labels. For example Giulio Al Ghadban has 63 in the assault skill with only 22 missions. In italian "Highly Proficient" has been translated into "Espertissimo" that hides the bar for a great part. I vote for removing the labels, considering also that having "mediocre" soldiers is one of the frequent complaints from new players on the forum.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 12:52:56 am »
I vote for removing the labels, considering also that having "mediocre" soldiers is one of the frequent complaints from new players on the forum.
Yes! I want to do this. I recently asked in irc for objections and didn't hear any. Maybe this will happen soon.

Thanks for the stats. Glad to see people are catching onto the benefits of going without armour.

Offline Telok

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2013, 06:24:19 am »
Sorry for the delay. I had two alien bases adjacent to each other and inside an inner and outer radar coverage overlap between two bases. This is on Hard difficulty and I've only just managed to produce my first suit of Power Armor, which was in transit to my primary team when the bases cropped up. Facing heavy armor ortnoks, with PB cannons or heavy needlers, and combat hovernets when your soldiers only have nano-composite armor is bad. So I spent a week playing dwarf fortress.

Code: [Select]
Rol  St  Sp  Ac  Mi  CC  AS  SN  EX  Hp  Kill

team 2 @ 20 missions (October 24th, 2084)
1as  42  29  47  59  22  70  21  30  135  21
2sn  46  33  45  65  17  21  64  24  125  24
3sn  50  31  47  47  25  20  63  23  128  14
4sn  46  40  48  61  24  17  70  30  132  17
5ex  51  35  37  45  24  20  21  54  125  08
7ex  51  33  43  45  21  23  23  62  129  09

team 1 @ 30 missions (November 16th, 2084)
1sn  50  40  59  66  29  24  72  24  128  23
2as  55  43  55  69  21  84  22  29  128  23
3ex  59  37  45  56  35  23  28  68  122  15
4sn  47  45  56  64  28  21  75  36  137  25
5ex  56  36  40  68  25  23  34  68  131  19
6sn  37  40  56  66  32  27  77  31  140  29
7ex  58  39  48  55  18  26  25  67  123  20

team 1 @ 40 missions (January 6th, 2085)
1sn  52  43  66  77  31  24  86  24  137  39
2as  57  46  63  82  21  100 22  29  138  44
3ex  61  40  48  61  35  23  28  76  127  20
4sn  50  48  64  73  28  21  89  36  145  41
5ex  58  39  46  76  29  23  34  80  139  30
6sn  59  43  61  74  32  27  86  31  146  43
7ex  60  42  50  60  18  26  25  73  127  24

It should be noted that team 2 hit an alien base with 11 aliens in it, it was their 25th mission. Team 1 hit the alien base with 25 aliens in it as their 40th mission. Five of them (four of the listed guys and one unlisted guy) gained rank from that mission and exactly two of them are not in the hospital now. A PB rifle snap shot leaves these guys with 30 to 40 health left and 8 bleeding. The lightest PB cannon hit leaves them with 10 to 20 health left and 10 to 12 bleeding, if it doesn't kill them. Combat hovernets and close range heavy needler blasts instantly kill them. Also that alien spawn point behind glass and next to the soldier spawn points needs to move. I just started hitting Replay every time an armored ortnok with a PB cannon or heavy needler was in it. Waiting for the reload was better than losing/wounding 2 to 3 soldiers before I even got off the spawn points.

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 08:29:25 am »
Sorry for the delay. I had two alien bases adjacent to each other and inside an inner and outer radar coverage overlap between two bases. This is on Hard difficulty and I've only just managed to produce my first suit of Power Armor, which was in transit to my primary team when the bases cropped up. Facing heavy armor ortnoks, with PB cannons or heavy needlers, and combat hovernets when your soldiers only have nano-composite armor is bad. So I spent a week playing dwarf fortress.

Code: [Select]
Rol  St  Sp  Ac  Mi  CC  AS  SN  EX  Hp  Kill

team 2 @ 20 missions (October 24th, 2084)
1as  42  29  47  59  22  70  21  30  135  21
2sn  46  33  45  65  17  21  64  24  125  24
3sn  50  31  47  47  25  20  63  23  128  14
4sn  46  40  48  61  24  17  70  30  132  17
5ex  51  35  37  45  24  20  21  54  125  08
7ex  51  33  43  45  21  23  23  62  129  09

team 1 @ 30 missions (November 16th, 2084)
1sn  50  40  59  66  29  24  72  24  128  23
2as  55  43  55  69  21  84  22  29  128  23
3ex  59  37  45  56  35  23  28  68  122  15
4sn  47  45  56  64  28  21  75  36  137  25
5ex  56  36  40  68  25  23  34  68  131  19
6sn  37  40  56  66  32  27  77  31  140  29
7ex  58  39  48  55  18  26  25  67  123  20

team 1 @ 40 missions (January 6th, 2085)
1sn  52  43  66  77  31  24  86  24  137  39
2as  57  46  63  82  21  100 22  29  138  44
3ex  61  40  48  61  35  23  28  76  127  20
4sn  50  48  64  73  28  21  89  36  145  41
5ex  58  39  46  76  29  23  34  80  139  30
6sn  59  43  61  74  32  27  86  31  146  43
7ex  60  42  50  60  18  26  25  73  127  24

It should be noted that team 2 hit an alien base with 11 aliens in it, it was their 25th mission. Team 1 hit the alien base with 25 aliens in it as their 40th mission. Five of them (four of the listed guys and one unlisted guy) gained rank from that mission and exactly two of them are not in the hospital now. A PB rifle snap shot leaves these guys with 30 to 40 health left and 8 bleeding. The lightest PB cannon hit leaves them with 10 to 20 health left and 10 to 12 bleeding, if it doesn't kill them. Combat hovernets and close range heavy needler blasts instantly kill them. Also that alien spawn point behind glass and next to the soldier spawn points needs to move. I just started hitting Replay every time an armored ortnok with a PB cannon or heavy needler was in it. Waiting for the reload was better than losing/wounding 2 to 3 soldiers before I even got off the spawn points.

Would you mind sharing that save?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 11:59:55 am »
Yes, I'd love to see the save if you don't mind. I'm particularly interested in that assault guy you got to 100! Does he have way more kills than everyone else?

I've removed the spawn point in the alien base entrance now.

Offline Telok

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2013, 05:08:25 am »
Gnarrgh, phooey phooey phooey!

It's been overwritten. I make a new save right before every mission landing and use the first five slots. The earliest save I have is the 16th and the last is on the 28th. The 16th save is the very next mission after the base mission. Unfortunately I seem to have played one too many missions.

Sorry.

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2013, 08:59:50 am »
I am not only interested in this special save before the alien base mission. Taking a look at your save would help in balancing the game for sure.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2013, 10:55:46 am »
Yes, any late-game save will be useful.

Offline Telok

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2013, 09:38:41 pm »
Ok then, here you go.

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2013, 07:19:57 am »
Thanks a lot.

Offline Wolls

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Re: Disruptive changes to stat calculation in latest 2.5-dev
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 10:01:03 pm »

The rate of growth for stats has been adjusted, along with the number of UFOs you are likely to face, so...

  Does this extent to all of the difficulty levels?  Or only to the standard/normal difficulty level??