The Strong Taman (Minor spoilers)

[Anarch Cassius]

I'm not liking the new strong Taman. They just feel wrong, not overpowered but just shoe-horned in and trying to make things work that maybe logically shouldn't.

They were added recently as a way to let this race use the now heavy endgame equipment, but I think that's just awkward. In terms of setting it makes me wonder why they even have multiple races if they can just tweak one race so far. In terms of gameplay it makes me feel like they are cheating. There is no penalty for this, no explanation, just no gun so big a Taman cannot lift it.

It seems like we have this very nice detailed sim but as soon as that internal logic becomes inconveneiant for the aliens they just cheat and dramatically so at that. I mean this isn't a small increase in Strength, it's the difference between some of the lowest stats in the game and some of the highest.

Rather than just pumping a ton of steroids into one species it'd be nice to see some advancing of the templates in all races in all skills as the game goes on. Or just split the race in question in to two types, one weak but mental that appears early but isn't dangerous until psi and one that favors strength more but doesn't have as extreme mental abilities. Or both, anything but the game waving it in your face that it doesn't have to obey logic or precedent.

I understand the end game in undergoing heavy revision near constantly and there will be placeholders but I just want to state that this seems like a bad approach for a final system.

[krilain]

Isn't that due to the lack of new races?

[Anarch Cassius]

Not completely. The Ortnok can handle the heavy artillery just fine and even weak Taman could use a PB pistol. It seems more to keep the endgame varied until psi, more races, and more equipment are introduced. Moreover I think the current endgame was balanced based on Taman using these weapons and this was a faster solution than re-designing the endgame while working on weight.

[geever]

In XCOM1 the weakest race was the Sectoids, later in the gameplay some of them started to use psionic power which made them more dangerous than some other, physically stronger races.

I see no problem in this.

And seems the fact you checked the implementation led you to the wrong conclusion. Noone said that the race was manipulated to create "strong tamans", the new teamdef was only a currently available solution to have species with differentiated skills, technical stuff only.

-geever

[H-Hour]

a) This is a temporary solution (as geever said).

b) The only way you would ever know they have adjusted strength stats is by looking at the code.

c) This is not a sim. It's a tactical-strategy game. Just because the story prefers a plausible future over jedi knights does not mean it is a sim.

[krilain]

I've understood something else. Maybe I'm wrong, but the problem is also that it is unexpected that the tamans shows themselves able to use and carry the heavy weapons. Taman looks more psi oriented (big head), and as they come in the early battles, we tend to associate them to the easy battles.
But as a provisory tweak, why not.

[Anarch Cassius]

And seems the fact you checked the implementation led you to the wrong conclusion. Noone said that the race was manipulated to create "strong tamans", the new teamdef was only a currently available solution to have species with differentiated skills, technical stuff only.

So the were made to test the differentiated skills rather than the differentiated skills being added to make them possible?

a) This is a temporary solution (as geever said).

All I really wanted to check.

a)b) The only way you would ever know they have adjusted strength stats is by looking at the code.

Not true. Multiplayer stats and/or just doing the math on end game items reveals it. The fact they carry the same weapons as Ortnok and that those weapons are very heavy in human hands is what caused me to look closely at the stats, not the other way around.

c) This is not a sim. It's a tactical-strategy game. Just because the story prefers a plausible future over jedi knights does not mean it is a sim.

Splitting hairs, most people wouldn't think of Warcraft 3 as a sim but the point is they'll still notice if an AI doesn't need lumber.